Fix Boomkin PVP (specifically Eclipse)

90 Night Elf Druid
8125
Hey everyone as many of you are aware Although playing a druid is extremely fun, playing the balance spec is very hard and unforgiving in PVP. Although We have great mobility and decent CC we are still lacking In damage output and Survivavility.

The only time We can put out some decent Damage is every 3 minutes when we blow all of our big cool downs. Then we become almost useless for the next three minutes.

I want to focus however on the eclipse mechanic. It really needs to be revamped. As it stands right now it forces you to cast certain spells weather you are in solar or lunar eclipse. IT is not fun when your class dictates what spells you have to cast instead of you thinking on your feet and deciding what is best to cast depending on the situation.

It also doesn't feel rewarding when you are in an eclipse instead you just feel punished when you are out of the eclipse.

The worst thing about eclipse is that it gives us a pair of identical spells which is just plain boring!

moonfire = sunfire
Starfire = wrath (but with ashorter cast time)

so all you end up doing is laying down two identical dots and then spamming either wrath or starfire.

Druids are supposed to be about versatility and being dynamic not having duplicate spells.
There has got to be a way to make the eclipse mechanic fun and make the different school spells unique and usefull in their own way.

As a side note

chaos bolt has a 3 second cast time and does Tons of damage!

Starfire has a 2.7 Second cast time and does miserable damage!

Cast times this long are super easy to interrupt which is why chaos bolt does so much damage you shouldn't have to eat a chaos bolt if you are paying attention.

starfire either needs a shorter cast time or increased damage. in a pvp situation where every second counts it hurts expending so much time just for a 50k hit if you can even get the full cast off
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90 Gnome Monk
9940
Hey everyone as many of you are aware Although playing a druid is extremely fun, playing the balance spec is very hard and unforgiving in PVP. Although We have great mobility and decent CC we are still lacking In damage output and Survivavility.

The only time We can put out some decent Damage is every 3 minutes when we blow all of our big cool downs. Then we become almost useless for the next three minutes.

I want to focus however on the eclipse mechanic. It really needs to be revamped. As it stands right now it forces you to cast certain spells weather you are in solar or lunar eclipse. IT is not fun when your class dictates what spells you have to cast instead of you thinking on your feet and deciding what is best to cast depending on the situation.

It also doesn't feel rewarding when you are in an eclipse instead you just feel punished when you are out of the eclipse.

The worst thing about eclipse is that it gives us a pair of identical spells which is just plain boring!

moonfire = sunfire
Starfire = wrath (but with ashorter cast time)

so all you end up doing is laying down two identical dots and then spamming either wrath or starfire.

Druids are supposed to be about versatility and being dynamic not having duplicate spells.
There has got to be a way to make the eclipse mechanic fun and make the different school spells unique and usefull in their own way.

As a side note

chaos bolt has a 3 second cast time and does Tons of damage!

Starfire has a 2.7 Second cast time and does miserable damage!

Cast times this long are super easy to interrupt which is why chaos bolt does so much damage you shouldn't have to eat a chaos bolt if you are paying attention.

starfire either needs a shorter cast time or increased damage. in a pvp situation where every second counts it hurts expending so much time just for a 50k hit if you can even get the full cast off

I didn't realize boomkin damage was so bad! Last I recall I've topped dmg in every bg or rbg I've ever done...and saw some other boomkin do 39mil dmg in an rbg, but yeah, boomkin dmg needs a buff gogo blizz!
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90 Tauren Paladin
8615
As a side note

chaos bolt has a 3 second cast time and does Tons of damage!

Starfire has a 2.7 Second cast time and does miserable damage!


Although I would agree that boomkins could use a boost, this side note is a bit narrow-minded. It's very easy to focus on JUST comparing Chaos Bolt to Starfire but you really need to compare the class entirely. Druids can stealth, warlocks can't. Druids can cast heals, warlocks can't. Druids can cyclone --- strongest CC ever!
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90 Worgen Druid
16360
[Quote]I want to focus however on the eclipse mechanic. It really needs to be revamped. As it stands right now it forces you to cast certain spells weather you are in solar or lunar eclipse. IT is not fun when your class dictates what spells you have to cast instead of you thinking on your feet and deciding what is best to cast depending on the situation. [/quote]

I'm sorry but what?.... You don't want to be dictated by eclipse? You want to think on your feet? Heaven forbid you have to cast either starfire or wrath if you decide to hard cast.. Two spell are effected by eclipse.. Any other spell in our arsenal is unaffected. Please.. Give me a break.

Our damage is almost second to none at the moment.. We can put out some of the highest numbers around in BGs and RBGs, we can get a whole team to go defensive with a smart multi dot/star fall combo in arena.

We also have some of the best CC and shut down mechanics in the game.

I think before you start making posts you should think a little more about your case... Especially what appears to be your core argument of the "class dictating your spell choice through eclipse"

All we have here is a case of PEBKAC also known as L2P
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90 Night Elf Druid
8125
Our damage is almost second to none at the moment.. We can put out some of the highest numbers around in BGs and RBGs, we can get a whole team to go defensive with a smart multi dot/star fall combo in arena.

We also have some of the best CC and shut down mechanics in the game.


I myself mentioned that we have some great CC and I I guess I should have specified that I Meant single target damage. Druids are great at dealing out massive damage to teams in bgs and rbgs. Bacuase like you said all you gotta do is dot everything and starfall while using all your starsurge procs. which is great for rbgs but druids do need some help in arenas
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90 Night Elf Druid
8125
02/12/2013 01:22 PMPosted by Atalie
I'm sorry but what?.... You don't want to be dictated by eclipse? You want to think on your feet? Heaven forbid you have to cast either starfire or wrath if you decide to hard cast.. Two spell are effected by eclipse.. Any other spell in our arsenal is unaffected


Grow a brain Jesus only two spells affected by eclipse????? are you serious what about the massive damage increase you get from star fall during lunar. or the fact that once you hit lunar it resets the cool down of said starfall. not to mention moon fire and sunfire plus shrooms. If you are going to argue at least make it seem like your not a total moron.
Edited by Pïpo on 2/12/2013 1:57 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
8125
I didn't realize boomkin damage was so bad! Last I recall I've topped dmg in every bg or rbg I've ever done...and saw some other boomkin do 39mil dmg in an rbg, but yeah, boomkin dmg needs a buff gogo blizz!


Again is a whole different story doing an bg than dueling or even doing arenas. Druids cant put out enough damage one on one their dots can be dispelled and their hard casts are easily interrupted. especially starfire. Again I agree in bgs if we keep our distance and just mindlesly dot everything we dish out some good preassure.
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90 Night Elf Druid
8125
02/12/2013 12:59 PMPosted by Hbomb
Although I would agree that boomkins could use a boost, this side note is a bit narrow-minded. It's very easy to focus on JUST comparing Chaos Bolt to Starfire but you really need to compare the class entirely. Druids can stealth, warlocks can't. Druids can cast heals, warlocks can't. Druids can cyclone --- strongest CC ever!


True say but locks also have some great cc

they can fear you into a chaos bolt

I guess druids can cyclone you into a starfire but the starfire will do a fraction of the damage taht is if you dont cast it too soon and it hits while your target is still cloned.
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90 Gnome Monk
9940
02/12/2013 02:00 PMPosted by Pïpo
I didn't realize boomkin damage was so bad! Last I recall I've topped dmg in every bg or rbg I've ever done...and saw some other boomkin do 39mil dmg in an rbg, but yeah, boomkin dmg needs a buff gogo blizz!


Again is a whole different story doing an bg than dueling or even doing arenas. Druids cant put out enough damage one on one their dots can be dispelled and their hard casts are easily interrupted. especially starfire. Again I agree in bgs if we keep our distance and just mindlesly dot everything we dish out some good preassure.

Who cares about duels? They have no relevance to anything.

I haven't done much arena on my boomkin but I know there's 2.2k+ boom 3s teams so they can't be THAT bad. In 2s I usually wreck stuff with another caster like a lock or mage. And I don't know why you want to hard cast starfire/wrath. Part of what I love about boom is that we DON'T have to hard cast much.
Edited by Gnomgnamstyl on 2/12/2013 2:32 PM PST
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90 Troll Druid
10730

Grow a brain


You told someone to grow a brain when you can't even work a simple damage pendulum?
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90 Night Elf Druid
12195
I would LOVE to see moonkins have more survivability. Right now, all we've got is barkskin, might of ursoc (woah man, 3 minute cooldown), root, displacer, and NS+Clone/HT. The only melee that is even still rootable is an enhance shaman. So..... Yeah. :|

Under pressure from double melee, it's rough. All five of those cooldowns can easily be blown through when avatar/wrecklessness/ascendance are all popped (using turbo cleave as an example, since it's the only comp my team can't beat atm). Then for the rest of the game, I'm praying I can kite them off me while being purge spammed. (That's a joke. Kite a warrior?)

I'm also getting pretty tired of seeing warriors outhealing hybrids. Second wind outheals my damage, is always automatically up at low health, requires no GCD to apply the effect, and heals better than a rejuvenation. Kind of messed up. :|
Edited by Oakpáw on 2/12/2013 2:51 PM PST
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90 Troll Druid
12030

Who cares about duels? They have no relevance to anything.

I haven't done much arena on my boomkin but I know there's 2.2k+ boom 3s teams so they can't be THAT bad. In 2s I usually wreck stuff with another caster like a lock or mage. And I don't know why you want to hard cast starfire/wrath. Part of what I love about boom is that we DON'T have to hard cast much.


This is not a good thing....

Reasoning: RnG.... The only way that we "DON'T have to hard cast much" is completely dependant on RnG procs of starsurge.

In 2's you do not have many targets to have your dots rolling on (and depending on your comp they can really easily be dispelled since you may not have dot protection) which makes RnG SS procs less likely.
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90 Orc Shaman
6715
Hey everyone as many of you are aware Although playing a druid is extremely fun, playing the balance spec is very hard and unforgiving in PVP. Although We have great mobility and decent CC we are still lacking In damage output and Survivavility.

The only time We can put out some decent Damage is every 3 minutes when we blow all of our big cool downs. Then we become almost useless for the next three minutes.


I'll leave this video here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ACZpF9x1JA
0:27 boomkin two shot.

Boomkin damage to hard QQ.
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90 Troll Druid
14580
Hey everyone as many of you are aware Although playing a druid is extremely fun, playing the balance spec is very hard and unforgiving in PVP. Although We have great mobility and decent CC we are still lacking In damage output and Survivavility.

The only time We can put out some decent Damage is every 3 minutes when we blow all of our big cool downs. Then we become almost useless for the next three minutes.


I'll leave this video here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ACZpF9x1JA
0:27 boomkin two shot.

Boomkin damage to hard QQ.

Hence, 3min wonder. Otherwise, lol.
Edited by Cyous on 2/13/2013 10:28 AM PST
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90 Orc Shaman
6715

3min two shotter. Otherwise good sustained.


Fixed.

Let us go into wonder world and pretend boomkins have bad sustained damage.
Still have:
~huge burst
~good offheals
~great CC
~great mobility
~higher than average survivability.
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90 Troll Druid
12030

3min two shotter. Otherwise good sustained.


Fixed.

Let us go into wonder world and pretend boomkins have bad sustained damage.
Still have:
~huge burst
~good offheals
~great CC
~great mobility
~higher than average survivability.


a) Huge Burst -> Sure, every 3 minutes (Assuming you are playing against window lickers that don't know how to dispel)

b) good offheals -> A rejuv that ticks for about 13k (outside of BG's.... about 10k inside) every 3 seconds is not considered "good" and a hard cast heal (2.5 second cast that any non window licking player can interrupt)

c) great CC -> Agree (wrt cyclone not being dispellable), but other classes can actually do damage to their CC'd targets

d) great mobility -> yes, but we're harmless as we are moving (all other classes can still do good dmg) -> Not to mention we take more damage as we are running (if we leave moonkin form)

e) Higher than average Survivability -> You clearly have not played a boomkin against any class 1v1
Edited by Jubz on 2/13/2013 11:30 AM PST
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90 Orc Shaman
6715

a) Huge Burst -> Sure, every 3 minutes (Assuming you are playing against window lickers that don't know how to dispel)

b) good offheals -> A rejuv that ticks for about 13k every 3 seconds is not considered "good" and a hard cast heal (2.5 second cast that any non window licking player can interrupt)

c) great CC -> Agree (wrt cyclone), but other classes can actually do damage to their CC'd targets

d) great mobility -> yes, but we're harmless as we are moving (all other classes can still do good dmg) -> Not to mention we take more damage as we are running (if we leave moonkin form)

e) Higher than average Survivability -> You clearly have not played a boomkin against any class 1v1


a) What more do you want? able to 2 shot someone every minute? On top of great sustained.

b) A spamable hot that ticks for 13k is considered bad in what world? Ever heard of juking? Or healing from LoS?

c) Most of the time you're not going to be casting it on the target you're hitting.
Not sure why you would want to damage a target you just CCed.

d) You can still pop in and out of travel to spam moon/sunfire as you're running.
Switch back to boomkin form when the melee starts righting your tail. You shouldn't be unable to stay away from melee.

e) I have. Many times. I've played boomkin since mid-BC US and EU.

We have plenty of survivalbility.

Boomkin has nothing wrong with it.

Also, this just in, 1v1 doesn't matter, more at 7.

P.S. You seem to have something against windows.
Edited by Christipor on 2/13/2013 11:58 AM PST
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90 Troll Druid
12030


a) What more do you want? able to 2 shot someone every minute? On top of great sustained.

b) A spamable hot that ticks for 13k is considered bad in what world? Ever heard of juking? Or healing from LoS?

c) Most of the time you're not going to be casting it on the target you're hitting.
Not sure why you would want to damage a target you just CCed.

d) You can still pop in and out of travel to spam moon/sunfire as you're running.
Switch back to boomkin form when the melee starts righting your tail. You shouldn't be unable to stay away from melee.

e) I have. Many times. I've played boomkin since mid-BC US and EU.

We have plenty of survivalbility.

Boomkin has nothing wrong with it.

Also, this just in, 1v1 doesn't matter, more at 7.

P.S. You seem to have something against windows.


a) I don't recall saying that I wanted anything else.... Although dot protection would be nice. I just laugh when a random shammy that has never played a boomkin comes onto druid forums and starts saying they are better than they actually are.

b) A spammable hot that hits for 8-10k in BG / Arena's... LOL! -> Sure that's good if you are not being attacked by anything (unless maybe a frost mage pet.... cuz if anything else is on you, this is not going to keep you up). If nothing else is attacking you, you'd be better off using Healin touch

c) Insert Warrior damage logs from bg's... or any class with a stun (I've literally died in shockwaves from full in BG's when focused).

d) You mean the moonfires that hit for 15-20k crits on pvp geared people? -> That's really threatening isn't it? LMAO....
Not to mention, if you were spamming moonfire / starfire on people, you run the risk of overriding a previous one that could be buffed by Nature's grace (Assuming you just went into an eclipse)... or maybe you just left an eclipse state from using a starsurge proc while running... you could be overriding one that is eclipsed
Edited by Jubz on 2/13/2013 1:12 PM PST
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90 Troll Druid
14580
02/13/2013 11:44 AMPosted by Christipor
a) What more do you want? able to 2 shot someone every minute? On top of great sustained.

If you let me turret, I have average sustained. You don't get to turret in PvP.

A spamable hot that ticks for 13k is considered bad in what world? Ever heard of juking? Or healing from LoS?

Have you ever tried to juke a 2.5sec cast? "Oh look, healing touch, lets just see if the cast is still going 1sec later." *1sec later* "Still casting? Kick. Not casting anymore? Lol, 2.5sec casts are hard to spot."

c) Most of the time you're not going to be casting it on the target you're hitting.
Not sure why you would want to damage a target you just CCed.

Because Kidney Shot, Shockwave, etc on the kill target never works.

d) You can still pop in and out of travel to spam moon/sunfire as you're running.
Switch back to boomkin form when the melee starts righting your tail. You shouldn't be unable to stay away from melee.

Shapeshifting is on the GCD. Moonfire is on the GCD. Dropping Moonkin Form causes us to lose our 15% reduction. If I'm powershifting Moonkin Form and Travel Form because I'm being trained by melee, obviously I'm not casting Moonfire or anything to apply counter-pressure.
02/13/2013 11:44 AMPosted by Christipor
e) I have. Many times. I've played boomkin since mid-BC US and EU.

You mean during the times of Panzerkins and their 450%-ish armor bonus? Because things never change after 5 years, am I right?
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90 Tauren Druid
8755
Hey everyone as many of you are aware Although playing a druid is extremely fun, playing the balance spec is very hard and unforgiving in PVP. Although We have great mobility and decent CC we are still lacking In damage output and Survivavility.

The only time We can put out some decent Damage is every 3 minutes when we blow all of our big cool downs. Then we become almost useless for the next three minutes.


I'll leave this video here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ACZpF9x1JA
0:27 boomkin two shot.

Boomkin damage to hard QQ.


Druid popped CDs? Ignore him and cry when he wrecks someone....
Do you ignore a warrior when he pops his skill macro?

Go full peel mode. Once the CDs are down the druid is countered by dispel for the next 3 mins.
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