Why Shouldn't the Alliance Surrender?

90 Dwarf Paladin
14910
That's the question.

The impression I'm getting is that the Alliance is either fighting to end the war, because war is bad m'kay or that the Alliance is fighting the Horde for the sheer hell of it. There is no end game plan or goal for the Alliance. No one talks about destroying the Horde (lots of talk about fighting it), at best there's talk about removing Garrosh from power, but no one has said why he's actually bad.

So why doesn't the Alliance just surrender? If they don't want to fight the war, then they should give up. If they don't want to destroy the Horde, then they should give up. If they don't want the lands the Horde has taken, then they should give up. If they don't want Garrosh to be a jerk to them, then they should stop atagonising him and he'd treat them better.

The Alliance talks alot about how you fight. They don't talk alot about why they are. The players are left to imagine why, but the only reason supported in-game is that Garrosh is simply intolerable (for whatever reason) or that you're a crazy belligerent psycho that just wants to hurt the Horde as much as possible for no real reason.

Even if you're convinced that being ruled by a Warchief is completely horrible existence, can you really say it'd be worse than fighting a war that spans the globe?
Edited by Cbredbeard on 2/12/2013 2:10 PM PST
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90 Draenei Monk
16325
Well, considering Garrosh wants to exterminate all the alliance races I'm going to say the alliance is fighting to not die.
Edited by Lena on 2/12/2013 2:13 PM PST
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910
02/12/2013 02:10 PMPosted by Lena
Well, considering Garrosh wants to exterminate all the alliance races I'm going to say the alliance is fighting to not die.


He wants to do that though because they're fighting him. He didn't jump to that conclusion until after the Alliance's resolve to fight the Horde was made obvious to him. Can you really say that Garrosh is wrong for wanting to wipe out the Alliance who will apparently fight him forever just because?
Edited by Cbredbeard on 2/12/2013 2:14 PM PST
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90 Draenei Monk
16325
02/12/2013 02:13 PMPosted by Cbredbeard
Well, considering Garrosh wants to exterminate all the alliance races I'm going to say the alliance is fighting to not die.


He wants to do that though because they're fighting him. He didn't jump to that conclusion until after the Alliance's resolve to fight the Horde was made obvious to him.


He wanted to claim all of Kalimdor. That's pretty bad for night elves.

Really the only races that have had something bad to them from Garrosh's horde are the draenei and gnomes.
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85 Human Mage
9660
Same reason we didn't surrender to the scourge or the legion.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910
02/12/2013 02:14 PMPosted by Lena


He wants to do that though because they're fighting him. He didn't jump to that conclusion until after the Alliance's resolve to fight the Horde was made obvious to him.


He wanted to claim all of Kalimdor. That's pretty bad for night elves.


How do you figure? And would it really be any worse than fighting a war?
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90 Draenei Monk
16325


He wanted to claim all of Kalimdor. That's pretty bad for night elves.


How do you figure? And would it really be any worse than fighting a war?


Um, well, the night elves wouldn't have a home anymore. Pretty sure that's bad.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910


How do you figure? And would it really be any worse than fighting a war?


Um, well, the night elves wouldn't have a home anymore. Pretty sure that's bad.


If they surrendered, they'd be absorbed into the Horde.
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90 Draenei Monk
16325


Um, well, the night elves wouldn't have a home anymore. Pretty sure that's bad.


If they surrendered, they'd be absorbed into the Horde.


That wasn't Garrosh's plan. He was going to push them out. So you'd end up with most alliance races hanging out in southern Eastern Kingdoms. It'd start to get really crowded.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13450
And all I heeeear

Is doooooom and gloom.
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02/12/2013 02:09 PMPosted by Cbredbeard
Even if you're convinced that being ruled by a Warchief is completely horrible existence, can you really say it'd be worse than fighting a war that spans the globe?


Absolutely.

But that's not really the point of this thread now is it? You want to illustrate how you feel that the Alliance needs to take a far more aggressive stance against the Horde if it's really serious about the war.

On that I would disagree with you. The Alliance is plenty serious about the war, it's just that the nature of game mechanics don't always show it very well. In Cataclysm for example the Alliance launched not one, not two, but three separate offenses against the Forsaken and any one of them could of potentially ended with the Alliance retaking all of Lordaeron. The reality of WoW being an MMO however meant none of them could actually succeed and since they generally took place in zones adjacent to the Undercity, questing was restricted to Horde players in all but one case.
Edited by Falrinn on 2/12/2013 2:32 PM PST
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910


If they surrendered, they'd be absorbed into the Horde.


That wasn't Garrosh's plan. He was going to push them out. So you'd end up with most alliance races hanging out in southern Eastern Kingdoms. It'd start to get really crowded.


He was only going to push them out because they kept fighting the Horde.

02/12/2013 02:31 PMPosted by Falrinn
Even if you're convinced that being ruled by a Warchief is completely horrible existence, can you really say it'd be worse than fighting a war that spans the globe?


Absolutely.


Elaborate.
Edited by Cbredbeard on 2/12/2013 2:32 PM PST
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90 Draenei Monk
16325
He was only going to push them out because they kept fighting the Horde.


Garrosh is smart enough not to leave night elves in Kalimdor.

Every race has a reason to fight against Garrosh beyond he's bad except draenei and gnomes.
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90 Pandaren Monk
7065
02/12/2013 02:09 PMPosted by Cbredbeard
If they don't want to destroy the Horde, then they should give up.


I must say, this pretty much sums up the entirety of your post. And it's a very simple reason.

What are they fighting for?

Answer: Survival.

The Alliance wasn't the one who declared war onto the Horde. It was the Horde who declared it onto the Alliance. The Alliance are fighting for a war of survival, and once this Tyrant (Who yes, the Alliance knows he is a Tyrant considering Vol'jin, Baine, and Lor'Themar have all been talking to the Alliance for the past two expansions. Aka Cataclysm and MoP) is removed from power, the Alliance has a key choice:

Should we:

A) Act exactly as Garrosh and hunt down each and every one, furthering the hostilities?

B) Be sophisticated and use diplomacy and war.

The Alliance seems to be going the route of B, and I hate to say this Cbredbeard, but what you're preaching is essentially to turn the Alliance into the same thing that Garrosh agrees with.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910
02/12/2013 02:34 PMPosted by Lena
He was only going to push them out because they kept fighting the Horde.


Garrosh is smart enough not to leave night elves in Kalimdor.

Every race has a reason to fight against Garrosh beyond he's bad except draenei and gnomes.


If they surrendered, he'd think differently of them.

What are they fighting for?

Answer: Survival.


They'd survive if they surrendered. They'd have to bear with the whims of the Horde leadership and culture, but that's no different than anyone that lives under the Horde. And everyone in the Horde loves living in the Horde.
Edited by Cbredbeard on 2/12/2013 2:41 PM PST
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90 Draenei Monk
16325
02/12/2013 02:37 PMPosted by Cbredbeard


Garrosh is smart enough not to leave night elves in Kalimdor.

Every race has a reason to fight against Garrosh beyond he's bad except draenei and gnomes.


If they surrendered, he'd think differently of them.


Assuming he didn't force them out, the night elves would likely be used as slaves.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910


If they surrendered, he'd think differently of them.


Assuming he didn't force them out, the night elves would likely be used as slaves.


The Horde doesn't practice slavery. In fact, that's the main reason why they're fighting the war. They will be slaves to no one!
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90 Draenei Monk
16325


Assuming he didn't force them out, the night elves would likely be used as slaves.


The Horde doesn't practice slavery. In fact, that's the main reason why they're fighting the war. They will be slaves to no one!


Um, remind me what happened to Varian after he was captured by the horde.
Edited by Lena on 2/12/2013 2:44 PM PST
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90 Human Warrior
6105
Alliance will not submit to any green skins.... go play horde. Your dwarf paladin annoys me and shouldnt be alliance. Horde should go back to outland where it should be.
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90 Draenei Monk
16325
02/12/2013 02:44 PMPosted by Tinkerbellè
Alliance will not submit to any green skins.... go play horde. Your dwarf paladin annoys me and shouldnt be alliance. Horde should go back to outland where it should be.


They don't want Outland anymore because they blew it up. They want a new world to blow up.
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