Why Shouldn't the Alliance Surrender?

90 Pandaren Monk
7065
02/12/2013 02:56 PMPosted by Lena
They don't want Outland anymore because they blew it up. They want a new world to blow up.


I love the irony of Lena's race.
Edited by Earthgrab on 2/12/2013 2:58 PM PST
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90 Orc Warrior
9130
Surrendering to a man like Garrosh, would lead to the same fate that Garrosh is going for if he wins the war. If the Alliance surrender to Garrosh, they will be enslaved, and then the genocide begins. So yes like many people on this thread has said, the Alliance is fight for survival. If the Alliance wants peace with the Horde, then Garrosh needs to go.
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90 Gnome Warlock
0
This seems to be an issue with how Blizzard are writing alliance leadership currently.

At this time we have a Jania who while has had her home destroyed by the horde and had them betray her by stealing the bell. And still she places all the Blame with Just garrosh and not the horde.(Somewhat with the Bloodelves still)

We have a Anduin who goes around praising the horde to be alliance and horde charcters while at the same time place all attrocites commited by the horde on Garrosh.

Finally we have a Varian who was once the voice for the alliance who wanted the horde destroyed in whole. Now he is trying to broker peace treaties with elves that attack his people and claiming the horde are good guys except for their leader...

I think this is a massive issue for alliance morale, while Theramore was supposed to galvanise the alliance to want to destroy the horde. We keep being told by the leaders of our faction that we aren't ever going to destroy them just go after one bad guy.

The alliance Player base needs to know that if we win the war we will hold all the horde responsible for the actions. Not just kill one orc who was supposbly forcing all of the horde to do his evil bidding.
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90 Human Death Knight
4840
02/12/2013 02:37 PMPosted by Cbredbeard
And everyone in the Horde loves living in the Horde.


The Trolls, Blood Elves , Sylvanas and probably by this point, some Tauren disagree.
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Horde has done never done slavery, Varian was taken slave by one person that doesn't count for the mass of the horde, The alliance on the other hand has already agreed to mass slavery as a whole.

The humans enslaved the orcs they captured.

Night elves inslaved humans and Trolls before the sundering.

Pshh at the people saying the Alliance fights for survival, last time I chekced all the alliance people are living in incredibly habitable zones. They just don't want to share.

Also most of the Horde races have been sacked... on the alliance side.. what gnomes and humans?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
The Alliance doesn't surrender because they don't want Garrosh to give them a nasty case of death? That's usually a great game plan.
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90 Draenei Monk
16325
Horde has done never done slavery, Varian was taken slave by one person that doesn't count for the mass of the horde, The alliance on the other hand has already agreed to mass slavery as a whole.


Um, right, it was 1 person who did all the gladiator things.
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02/12/2013 03:48 PMPosted by Kíen
The Alliance doesn't surrender because they don't want Garrosh to give them a nasty case of death? That's usually a great game plan.


So Garrosh said he wants to elimate the alliance and everyone is screaming genocide.

Varian said the exact same thing in the battle of undercity but we are letting that slide.

Ok.
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85 Dwarf Hunter
10935
Horde has done never done slavery, Varian was taken slave by one person that doesn't count for the mass of the horde, The alliance on the other hand has already agreed to mass slavery as a whole.

The humans enslaved the orcs they captured.

Night elves inslaved humans and Trolls before the sundering.

Pshh at the people saying the Alliance fights for survival, last time I chekced all the alliance people are living in incredibly habitable zones. They just don't want to share.

Also most of the Horde races have been sacked... on the alliance side.. what gnomes and humans?


[Sigh]

Slavery and Internment are not the same thing - please stop pretending that they are.
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90 Orc Warlock
10370
02/12/2013 02:36 PMPosted by Earthgrab
The Alliance wasn't the one who declared war onto the Horde. It was the Horde who declared it onto the Alliance.


Wrong - Varian declared war on the Horde after Wrathgate. Garrosh simply has expanded on it.
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
02/12/2013 03:52 PMPosted by Darmonic
Varian said the exact same thing in the battle of undercity but we are letting that slide.


You call it genocide. I call it dismantling.

But the Varian we have now won't do either, in this case it's to rescue the Horde from a tyrant.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
10415
02/12/2013 02:25 PMPosted by Cbredbeard
If they surrendered, they'd be absorbed into the Horde.

He clearly stated in Tides of War, something along the lines of wanting the night elves to know what it's like to have to beg and scrounge to survive. To serve them some humble pie, as it were.
Edited by Cælia on 2/12/2013 4:05 PM PST
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Horde has done never done slavery, Varian was taken slave by one person that doesn't count for the mass of the horde, The alliance on the other hand has already agreed to mass slavery as a whole.

The humans enslaved the orcs they captured.

Night elves inslaved humans and Trolls before the sundering.

Pshh at the people saying the Alliance fights for survival, last time I chekced all the alliance people are living in incredibly habitable zones. They just don't want to share.

Also most of the Horde races have been sacked... on the alliance side.. what gnomes and humans?


[Sigh]

Slavery and Internment are not the same thing - please stop pretending that they are.


They were doing slave labor, and even Thrall in the Goblin starting zone states that the alliance would have made him their slave again...
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[Sigh]

Slavery and Internment are not the same thing - please stop pretending that they are.


They were doing slave labor, and even Thrall in the Goblin starting zone states that the alliance would have made him their slave again...


Oh, the Alliance had no reason to treat the prisoners horribly, it's not like they tried to wipe them out, destroy their towns, cities and homes, and murder their friends and family unprovoked. /sarcasm
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The Alliance wasn't the one who declared war onto the Horde. It was the Horde who declared it onto the Alliance.


Wrong - Varian declared war on the Horde after Wrathgate. Garrosh simply has expanded on it.


Did you read Cataclysm the Shattering? Fragile peace set in after the War against the Lich king. Arathi basin, Alterac valley, and Warsong gultch ceased to be battlegrounds story wise. Garrosh then invaded Ashenvale which started the war again.
Edited by Cladriah on 2/12/2013 4:33 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5420
02/12/2013 04:11 PMPosted by Darmonic
They were doing slave labor, and even Thrall in the Goblin starting zone states that the alliance would have made him their slave again...


OK. You need to provide a citation on this. It's time you backed up your assertion. What canon lore states that the orcs were kept as slaves? WoWpedia and the WoW encyclopedia is chock full of lore on practically everything. If it's true, you should be able to provide a link that is canon lore to prove your claim.
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90 Draenei Shaman
14085
02/12/2013 04:38 PMPosted by Kynrind
OK. You need to provide a citation on this. It's time you backed up your assertion. What canon lore states that the orcs were kept as slaves? WoWpedia and the WoW encyclopedia is chock full of lore on practically everything. If it's true, you should be able to provide a link that is canon lore to prove your claim.


It is true that the orcs were used as slave labor, at least for a time. It was orcs who build the statue of Lothar. I dont remember Thrall saying anything about being turned into a slave again though.

Granted I think using them as slave labor was a form of reparation for everything they destroyed during their campaign.
Edited by Zerde on 2/12/2013 4:51 PM PST
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90 Troll Shaman
5420
02/12/2013 04:38 PMPosted by Kynrind
OK. You need to provide a citation on this. It's time you backed up your assertion. What canon lore states that the orcs were kept as slaves? WoWpedia and the WoW encyclopedia is chock full of lore on practically everything. If it's true, you should be able to provide a link that is canon lore to prove your claim.

"Burx was a chief warrior in the Horde, who unfortunately was also part of the Burning Blade. Burx had grown up as a slave to humans during the Lethargy of the Orcs, and had been abused by them every day of his life until his liberation by Thrall"

http://www.wowpedia.org/Burx
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5420
02/12/2013 04:48 PMPosted by Kellick
OK. You need to provide a citation on this. It's time you backed up your assertion. What canon lore states that the orcs were kept as slaves? WoWpedia and the WoW encyclopedia is chock full of lore on practically everything. If it's true, you should be able to provide a link that is canon lore to prove your claim.

"Burx was a chief warrior in the Horde, who unfortunately was also part of the Burning Blade. Burx had grown up as a slave to humans during the Lethargy of the Orcs, and had been abused by them every day of his life until his liberation by Thrall"

http://www.wowpedia.org/Burx
\

Huh. Learned something new. I maintain that the Alliance was far less harsh in it's 'slavery' than the horde has been. As to Darmonic's claim that the Horde has never practiced slavery.....

The practice of slavery has historically existed in orc society, and while in modern times it seems to occur less, the practice still continues among the orcs, though it is unclear how widespread it is. Despite Thrall's work to ensure that no orc would be cast into slavery ever again[1], a small number of orcs have been found enslaved by other orcs in the Horde, for example Bloodeye Redfist. It appears that some orcs are also willing to enslave members of other races, both Horde and Alliance.[2][3][4] Many of these slaves were however once criminals whom were brought to justice. It is unclear why the orcs still allow slavery, and to what extent, or why they choose to ignore it.

The fact that the Crimson Ring, a gladiatorial circuit that very often includes slaves and is described as underground[14], seem to indicate that using slavery for pit fighting is a discouraged practice (due to the nature of the matches, which many times include battles to the death) but their ability to openly practice and train in Horde cities without persecution seems to imply that if the slaves are offenders of the Horde, the slavery will be overlooked. Surprisingly the Crimson Ring's gladiatorial death matches and the enslaved gladiators are in the open at times; some of the tournaments taking place in Orgrimmar's and other Horde arenas[15]. Even Bloodeye was well known enough to be described as a "champion of the orcs".

Another example is the case of Jinxo, who had been captured by the orcs, and was going to be sold into slavery to a goblin, had she not developed a plan for escape.[16]


http://www.wowpedia.org/Orc#Slavery
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