New 5.2 Changes (Feb 13th)

90 Undead Rogue
4535
Then you also realize that Darkness no longer has ridiculous burst. You didn't mention Emerald Proto-Whelp at all, that alone pretty much shuts down darkness....


That is because you don't know the weaknesses yet and you are talking from lack of experience. The fact that you put proto whelp as a third (instead of a roach) screams you don't know how to play a stall team well. You've ran OP teams for too long that won easily, FFF x3, blighthawk x 3, its your record... hence never learned a proper way to play stall.

1) You'll get slaughtered by any team that runs stall + apocalypse since your team is stall only.
2) You'll lose to any team that still hits hard and has lovely minefield making swaps to crawdad not worth it. Minefield + Rocket or similar skill + Amplify damage and you are done for. Swap and lose, or don't swap and lose...no good options there for you.
3) A team that can change your sandstorm on your anub will make him open target for many other pets. He does really weak hits vs beasts and gets annihilated by Lil KT and the likes even in sandstorm. You switch, they'll switch... welcome to the meta game.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
17950
tank team counter - apocalypse :D. You'd be surprised how fast 15 rounds goes by.

edit: damn beat to the punch
Edited by Asmog on 2/14/2013 11:22 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Human Death Knight
0
02/14/2013 11:19 AMPosted by Kenpo
Then you also realize that Darkness no longer has ridiculous burst. You didn't mention Emerald Proto-Whelp at all, that alone pretty much shuts down darkness....


That is because you don't know the weaknesses yet and you are talking from lack of experience. The fact that you put proto whelp as a third (instead of a roach) screams you don't know how to play a stall team well. You've ran OP teams for too long that won easily, FFF x3, blighthawk x 3, its your record... hence never learned a proper way to play stall.

1) You'll get slaughtered by any team that runs stall + apocalypse since your team is stall only.
2) You'll lose to any team that still hits hard and has lovely minefield making swaps to crawdad not worth it. Minefield + Rocket or similar skill + Amplify damage and you are done for. Swap and lose, or don't swap and lose...no good options there for you.
3) A team that can change your sandstorm on your anub will make him open target for many other pets. He does really weak hits vs beasts and gets annihilated by Lil KT and the likes even in sandstorm. You switch, they'll switch... welcome to the meta game.


How many times do I have to tell you, I am NOT talking about the current patch. I AM talking about 5.2. Again, I'll shoot down your ideas once more........

1). Gets countered by the same pet that counters Mr. Wiggles if he becomes popular, a single Crystal Spider. Enjoy watching your roach helplessly die to it.
2) There are NO hard hitters in 5.2. Get that through your head. You have to do quite a bit of switching to amp damage, giving me time to setup wishes or simply pound your pets into the ground.
3)Maybe if your randomly pressing buttons you'll get your weather changed, but guess what? 3 round CD + intelligent play means your weather is up when you want it. Lil' KT? You really listed that as a counter? Crawdad eats him for lunch.

Your current experience with the comp means nothing. The patch changes a lot of things about double shielding, so again, if you want to post a REASONABLE 5.2 counter than do so, I honestly could care less about what pets beat it in 5.1. Your "record" also shows you talk from lack of experience. Got a screen shot of Curse of Doom healing for full yet without Siphon Life? No? Thats what I thought.

Anyways, the 3rd slot on this team is flexible to begin with anyways. You can basically sub in whatever specific counter you need and the team functions just fine. Mirror Match is always gonna be a nightmare though :/

Edit: Actually, Lil' KT doesn't even really "annihilate" Anub under a sandstorm. Siphon Life or Death and Decay deals NO damage. If your opting for shadow slash, your looking at (325-148)*1.5 dealing 265.5 damage while I'm dealing back 222 (296 when its sandstorm) and regenning 4% (69) HP per hit. When Curse of Doom DOES finally trigger, its only going to deal roughly 753, hardly "Destroying" Him. Of course when it finally does trigger I can just swap into a Crawdad (who will take laughable damage from a CoD), Wish, and switch back to anub to resume the pounding.
Edited by Surrender on 2/14/2013 12:05 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Undead Rogue
4535
1) Yeah, but it counters your team so you are done, there goes your whole argument.

2) 700+ hits are still hard. Anubisath can't handle more than 2 of those. He isn't invincible. Your definition is FFF hitting for 2k, my definition of hard is someone hitting you for a lot more than you return. Plenty of counters to you there, I know you don't like Lil KT but he does fantastic work there.

3) Not even valid, you are just rambling pointlessly because you know you already lost the argument. You need to detach your ego from pet battles if you actually want to talk about it in a productive way.

(And no you don't get to pick 10 different pets and 5 skills for every pet for every counter I give you, game will only let you pick 3 pets and 3 skills for each, it doesn't let you conveniently change after you've been countered)
Edited by Kenpo on 2/14/2013 11:54 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Human Death Knight
0
02/14/2013 11:52 AMPosted by Kenpo
1) Yeah, but it counters your team so you are done, there goes your whole argument.


Ok.......So, by you running a Roach.......and for a double shield team to put whats gonna be a popular counter pet into it............counters my whole argument? Does your roach magically kill all 3 pets after it helplessly dies to a single pet? Look, your playing the random counter game, I actually listed a 3rd pet that seamlessly fits into the comp that counters what could be its only 2 big threats, apoc or Wiggles Haymaker spam. So again, spouting nonsense.

P.S. - Good luck winning with a roach team against any of the other popular 5.2 comps (Triple Ooze, Triple Undead, Triple Conflag, etc). Conveniently, Double shield will beat these comps as well as your roach example.

2) 700+ hits are still hard. Anubisath can't handle more than 2 of those. He isn't invincible. Your definition is FFF hitting for 2k, my definition of hard is someone hitting you for a lot more than you return. Plenty of counters to you there, I know you don't like Lil KT but he does fantastic work there.


Who exactly is hitting for 700+? Your Lil' KT example can BARELY break 700 on anub, and it does NOTHING at all to crawdad. Its your job to prove me wrong, which so far, you've been failing pretty hard to do. Also, since your randomly making up numbers, FFF never broke 2k unless it was a weakness or a crit. My definition of hitting hard is around the 800 or so range that the old Ghostly Bite and Conflag abilities were reaching. There are no more 2.5 ATK ratio moves in 5.2 with the current nerfs (well, theres Surge of Power and Ion Cannon, but nobody uses those because its suicide).

3) Not even valid, you are just rambling pointlessly because you know you already lost the argument. You need to detach your ego from pet battles if you actually want to talk about it in a productive way.


Ok, not even valid? So your saying every player will mindless cast Sandstorm on CD? You've really got me laughing here.

02/14/2013 11:52 AMPosted by Kenpo
(And no you don't get to pick 10 different pets and 5 skills for every pet for every counter I give you, game will only let you pick 3 pets and 3 skills for each, it doesn't let you conveniently change after you've been countered)


Where have I picked TEN different pets and FIVE skills each for them? Read the thread. I have listed a grand total of FOUR different pets in this comp, none with a deviate skill setup outside of the Emerald Proto-Whelp. When you can name the ten pets and five different skill setups get back to me, otherwise I'm done with you.

Then again, sounds like your just wanting to pick an obscure counter and say the comp is fine. Thats like me saying that you need to run snails in every comp to deal with Triple Conflag. It wasn't ok, and it obviously wasn't ok with the developers either from the conflag nerfs lined up for 5.2.
Edited by Surrender on 2/14/2013 12:36 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Undead Rogue
4535
Keep rambling Surrender... you got nothing. And now you've fallen from that mountain of ego trip. As they say, the higher they climb the harder they fall. Sadly no lesson learned, just denial.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
12445
tank team counter - apocalypse :D. You'd be surprised how fast 15 rounds goes by.

edit: damn beat to the punch


I've just seen it miss so very often, though, which is insane for a move that takes 15 rounds to go off. :\

The trouble here is that pet battles need to have the following be true before they can be, well, good:

-Most pets are at least somewhat viable: we don't want poke-syndrome where only a tiny number of pets are worth looking at and the rest are total garbage (which is really how it is now).

-No single team is capable of shutting down everything except for a team built with the specific intention of countering it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, "It can be countered!" is not valid reason that a comp or pet is not heinously overpowered.

Ideally, people should be using comps that are well-rounded with good synergy because that's what the game should be encouraging them to do, not comps that are designed to counter a specific overpowered comp because that's what they expect to be going up against and not because they've found a specific comp that dominates 90% of all other comps.

Do I think this is at all achievable without months of balancing on Bliz's part? Of course not, but this is the ideal situation we should be moving toward and we the players identifying where the roadblocks lie will only speed Bliz's efforts in removing them.

The next roadblock will be tanky/shield teams that simply cannot be killed due to a lack of burst in the general metagame.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Warrior
12105
02/14/2013 01:45 PMPosted by Destian
I've just seen it miss so very often, though, which is insane for a move that takes 15 rounds to go off. :\


All indications are it only misses if the casters dies before those 15 rounds are up. Which is why no one has seen one land in the wild (at least I assume no one).
Reply Quote
90 Human Death Knight
12440
Do I think this is at all achievable without months of balancing on Bliz's part? Of course not, but this is the ideal situation we should be moving toward and we the players identifying where the roadblocks lie will only speed Bliz's efforts in removing them.


I wouldn't count in months being the timeline there, Gamefreak has been doing this for a good two decades and still run into problems.
Reply Quote
90 Human Death Knight
0
Keep rambling Surrender... you got nothing. And now you've fallen from that mountain of ego trip. As they say, the higher they climb the harder they fall. Sadly no lesson learned, just denial.


As I thought, you got nothing after all your points are shot down. Resort to insults, but the fact is your using 5.1 information vs 5.2 information.

Btw, ever get that screenshot of Curse of Doom healing to full when killing someone with it without Siphon Life? No? Alrighty then.

Good talk pal.
Reply Quote
90 Human Death Knight
0
02/14/2013 01:45 PMPosted by Destian
-Most pets are at least somewhat viable: we don't want poke-syndrome where only a tiny number of pets are worth looking at and the rest are total garbage (which is really how it is now).


This is impossible to fix currently. They simply made too many "clone" pets without thinking.

02/14/2013 01:45 PMPosted by Destian
-No single team is capable of shutting down everything except for a team built with the specific intention of countering it.


Thats how it should be, some comps faring better against others. However, with burst nerfs, your gonna see people move on to the next pet, oozes, and then theres going to be the super comp of double shield if its not addressed somehow.

02/14/2013 01:45 PMPosted by Destian
I've said it before and I'll say it again, "It can be countered!" is not valid reason that a comp or pet is not heinously overpowered.


100% agree. Like Triple Conflag this patch, just because including a snail on your team counters it doesn't mean its not OP or ridiculous. You then come to a meta where people are running triple conflag, or running whatever + a snail. Not healthy for the meta environment.

02/14/2013 01:45 PMPosted by Destian
Ideally, people should be using comps that are well-rounded with good synergy because that's what the game should be encouraging them to do, not comps that are designed to counter a specific overpowered comp because that's what they expect to be going up against and not because they've found a specific comp that dominates 90% of all other comps.


Thats how it should be, but they got a LONG way to go before that (addressing undead passive, Corrosion, Double blocking, etc).

02/14/2013 01:45 PMPosted by Destian
Do I think this is at all achievable without months of balancing on Bliz's part? Of course not, but this is the ideal situation we should be moving toward and we the players identifying where the roadblocks lie will only speed Bliz's efforts in removing them.


It probably won't be achieved anytime soon. Fixing some problems create new problems, but frankly some skills/passives were not very well thought out along with ratios probably being too high across the board on moves.

02/14/2013 01:45 PMPosted by Destian
The next roadblock will be tanky/shield teams that simply cannot be killed due to a lack of burst in the general metagame.


Yep. That needs to be addressed, along with corrosion and eventually looking into the undead passive. Once those are addressed we can let the dust settle and see how things look from there.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
15345
Is Surrender trying to talk about Pet PvP again? Best give it up Kenpo he knows everything.

lol, but on a more serious note. Tank teams are weak. They wreck random teams but any team with some synergy will come out on top. Also pets with Expose wounds will laugh at these teams.

I will get a giggle at the thought of 2 Anubs punching each other for hours on end.
Edited by Annimositty on 2/14/2013 2:54 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Undead Rogue
4535
02/14/2013 01:45 PMPosted by Destian
I've just seen it miss so very often, though, which is insane for a move that takes 15 rounds to go off. :\


It only misses if the roach that cast it is dead (100% miss chance). Ideally you just pull the roach out to cast it and one more time to survive it. Tank / heal in between.

02/14/2013 01:45 PMPosted by Destian
've said it before and I'll say it again, "It can be countered!" is not valid reason that a comp or pet is not heinously overpowered.


Tank synergy team does do well, very well, vs random teams. And I think that's where Surrender gets his ego stroked when he beats random no synergy teams, anyone can beat a squirrel a rat and a cat. He doesn't want to admit being wrong (ego thing), but he knows there are many teams that'll run him down. I know this from experience, I even posted 3 teams that can easily beat his tank team no sweat, with apocalypse team being a guaranteed winner..
Edited by Kenpo on 2/14/2013 3:20 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Human Death Knight
0
Tank synergy team does do well, very well, vs random teams. And I think that's where Surrender gets his ego stroked when he beats random no synergy teams, anyone can beat a squirrel a rat and a cat. He doesn't want to admit being wrong (ego thing), but he knows there are many teams that'll run him down. I know this from experience, I even posted 3 teams that can easily beat his tank team no sweat, with apocalypse team being a guaranteed winner..


Yet you failed how to explain how a roach survives vs a crystal spider. Again, posting 5.1 teams does not help at all when discussing 5.2 discussions. Your also assuming player skill is horrible and that they will cast sandstorm on CD. Speaking of ego btw, hows it going on providing proof that Curse of Doom is suppose to give you a full heal? I see your still having trouble posting that screenshot you bragged about so long ago.

02/14/2013 02:51 PMPosted by Annimositty
Is Surrender trying to talk about Pet PvP again? Best give it up Kenpo he knows everything.


5.1 Tank teams are weak. You guys are so focused on the present that you can't see what 5.2 is bringing you. Go ahead though, you'll be complaining about it soon enough.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
14000
Go away for a month and everything is different...

ETA: except the forums, they are completely the same old junk lol.
Edited by Jitterbug on 2/14/2013 7:14 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Human Death Knight
0
Go away for a month and everything is different...

ETA: except the forums, they are completely the same old junk lol.


>.<
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Warlock
8095
so much argueing. Heres, the deal, shield team isnt that big a deal. it will die to stuns. all u need is super sticky goo. there are still some very hard hitting abilities suchas deep freeze etc they may not be FFF but its still a big hit. the meta is going in the right direction finally. lets all just see what happens when the patch drops then we can all come back after 100 pvp matches plus...and talk then.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
7510
The ePeen is strong in this thread.

Please stop. Both of you. It's pathetic.
Reply Quote
90 Human Death Knight
0
02/15/2013 01:59 AMPosted by Shadowsedict
so much argueing. Heres, the deal, shield team isnt that big a deal. it will die to stuns. all u need is super sticky goo. there are still some very hard hitting abilities suchas deep freeze etc they may not be FFF but its still a big hit. the meta is going in the right direction finally. lets all just see what happens when the patch drops then we can all come back after 100 pvp matches plus...and talk then.


Stuns have DR next patch. What pet are you using that has super sticky goo that counters either of them very well? Shield team ISN'T a big deal in 5.1 because there is burst. All burst has been toned down in 5.2, which in turn, makes double shielding ridiculous.

Seriously, if your gonna take time to write something like this, it works better if you actually, you know, explain it out. Also, you consider Deep Freeze hard hitting? That's about 400ish damage if I recall, with shields dropping it down to about 300. That's a hard hit let me tell ya. Good thing it doesn't have a CD......oh wait, it does. Guess You'll be tossing 150ish snowballs while their punching you in the face for a full 300+ (since elementals ignore the sandstorm) all the while healing off all the damage you deal. Balance at its best.

The ePeen is strong in this thread.

Please stop. Both of you. It's pathetic.


What an insightful, constructive, AND informative post. I'm glad you've shed some light on why or why not 5.2 double shielding is or isn't a big deal. Seriously, you should publish your thesis on this.
Edited by Surrender on 2/15/2013 1:11 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
13185
All signs point to pvp in 5.2 being dominated by defensive comps.

I'd rather have the current burst-heavy system than one where every match goes on forever because nobody can die.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]