Discipline and 5.2 Trinkets

100 Blood Elf Priest
11880
I am confused at the wording on the Throne of Thunder trinkets. "Your healing spells have a chance to grant mana..." and "your heals have a chance to grant the target..." One says "Your beneficial spells..."

What exactly do these mean? Are they like the Dragon Soul trinkets which sucked for Discipline because they only affected a couple of specific spells? Because technically, Atonement, PW: Shield, Divine Aegis, Spirit Shell, and several other abilities are not considered heals (some aren't even counted as spells because they are passive effects).

So, would a "beneficial spell" be just PW: Shield, or would Divine Aegis, Spirit Shell, and Atonement count too?
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
Still not much data out on the trinkets beside basic stats. I would assume that they had learned their lesson and will consider atonement a healing spell but who knows. Any spell that heals should be "beneficial" in my book but i can see how it is hard to balance around disc talents/spells.

I don't think DA should ever be counted as it is just a side effect of another spell so it would essentially double dip.

edit: the mana one is cool depending on the icd. I just breezed over them this morning. Makes me long for double solace again.
Edited by Sadiemay on 2/13/2013 8:21 AM PST
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100 Blood Elf Priest
11880
Still not much data out on the trinkets beside basic stats. I would assume that they had learned their lesson and will consider atonement a healing spell but who knows. Any spell that heals should be "beneficial" in my book but i can see how it is hard to balance around disc talents/spells.

I don't think DA should ever be counted as it is just a side effect of another spell so it would essentially double dip.

edit: the mana one is cool depending on the icd. I just breezed over them this morning. Makes me long for double solace again.


That's one of the reasons it's so confusing. Almost everything Discipline has, from glyphs to core abilities, are just "double dips" or side-effects of other spells. Most of Discipline's abilities are not considered heals, and many are not even considered spells (like Divine Aegis and Atonement).

The few abilities that I know will work with the new trinkets (Renew, Heal, GHeal, FHeal, PoH) are all spells that I don't use often enough to activate a trinket, or I only use them when they are augmented by Spirit Shell (which makes them side-effects, not "spells" or "heals").

I have a feeling that they won't work well with Discipline, because of how they are worded. The 5.0 trinkets like Spirits of the Sun are all worded like this:

"Each time your spells heal, you have a chance to gain #### Spirit."

Trinkets like that have traditionally been worded to say that whenever something causes healing, it can activate. Whenever it says "healing spells", it implies that it is the act of casting a specific healing SPELL (like Flash Heal) that activates the trinket. So if the spell you cast (like Smite) isn't classified as a healing spell, it doesn't work.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
You'll still be using pen on cd and casting poh a lot. And as long as pw:s is considered a heal you should have more than enough to reach the icd of the trinket. Though i am just guessing and could be completely wrong.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
Well, did any of those disc spells you are asking about proc the darkmoon card: tsunami?

It said "healing" spells as opposed to "beneficial", but I have a feeling it is exactly the same thing.

Edit: here is the language on the tsunami card:

Your healing spells have a chance to increase your Spirit by 80 for 20 sec. This effect can stack up to 5 times.
Edited by Taymage on 2/13/2013 8:48 AM PST
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100 Blood Elf Priest
11880
02/13/2013 08:41 AMPosted by Sadiemay
You'll still be using pen on cd and casting poh a lot. And as long as pw:s is considered a heal you should have more than enough to reach the icd of the trinket. Though i am just guessing and could be completely wrong.


I don't really know how Penance works when you cast it on an enemy. Not sure if it's considered a healing spell or a damage spell. I know for a fact that PW: Shield isn't considered a healing spell, because effects that increase or decrease healing don't increase PW: Shield. Only specific effects work on it, like Archangel.

Oh well. Thanks for responding. I guess I'll just have to wait and see if more info comes out about them later.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
15230
Well, did any of those disc spells you are asking about proc the darkmoon card: tsunami?

It said "healing" spells as opposed to "beneficial", but I have a feeling it is exactly the same thing.

Edit: here is the language on the tsunami card:

Your healing spells have a chance to increase your Spirit by 80 for 20 sec. This effect can stack up to 5 times.


Darkmoon Card: Tsunami
Heart of Unliving

Pretty much the same language, but Tsunami worked with Atonement and HoU didn't.

If the language on trinkets is unclear, it's at least partly because Blizzard has been inconsistent in the past.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
11880
Darkmoon Card: Tsunami
Heart of Unliving

Pretty much the same language, but Tsunami worked with Atonement and HoU didn't.

If the language on trinkets is unclear, it's at least partly because Blizzard has been inconsistent in the past.


Yes, exactly. Every time a new patch comes out with new trinkets, Discipline has to go through this same song and dance, trying to figure out if a trinket will work with our abilities or not. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. It's very inconsistent, even with MoP trinkets that I've used.

What I think is happening is that Blizzard takes old items (that they've already coded and designed) and then changes things like the name, item number, and stats to form a new trinket, rather than designing everything from scratch. They scale everything up, but forget that they need to re-code things to include Atonement or PW: Shield as a heal. At least, that's my theory.
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100 Human Paladin
14075
Generally, "beneficial spells" is a more broad category, but Blizzard has been inconsistent as you mention.

In my experience (mostly, but not all the time because of inconsistency):

"healing spells" generally means the effect activates on-cast or on-landing of a healing spell, and doesn't usually proc from HoT ticks.

"every time your spells cause healing" generally means the effect activates when the target takes healing from your spells and effects (ie: HoTs such as Renew ticks proc the effect).

"your beneficial spells" generally means the effect has a chance to activate every time you use a beneficial ability. This can include things like buffing, casting Power Infusion on yourself, casting Pain Suppression, casting Beacon of Light, as well as healing spells.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
5510
This is actually a *very* important question.
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They do need to be more consistent with trinket design in regards to what procs and what not. Heck, as Enhancement I can proc the Bottle trinket from Elegon by casting HEX despite it stating it procs from "attacks".

Things like PW:Shield should be considered as beneficial and healing for the intent of trinket procs; else, it devalues their use for Disc a bit. Atonement is also in a weird spot since you technically cast an offensive spell, not a heal.
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90 Troll Priest
12420
Yeah, procs lately have been worded so wrong lately. Like colossus, the tank enchant that procced from melee hits, was proccing when I casted Kings/MotW, moonfire, etc.. Maybe that's been fixed but tooltips have been weird lately.
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100 Night Elf Druid
6355
02/13/2013 09:24 PMPosted by Korghal
Atonement is also in a weird spot since you technically cast an offensive spell, not a heal.


This is going to be an issue for monks too, for the same reason. I hope that means someone at Blizzard is giving it some thought.
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