Paladin Threat vs Other Tanks, Help!!

90 Blood Elf Paladin
5075
Hi this is my first post on the forums, and I hope that people will get to see this and give me some feedback.

So I have an issue about my paladin, and that issue is threat. First thing first, lets tell you what i'm doing with my gear-

Right now I'm hit capped, and soft exp capped, working on getting hard exp capped..

So off the bat, i know i'm not missing my boss, and he's not dodging me, that already is a boost to threat right?
And i always have righteous fury on.
Check my glyph's, the one i particularly want to mention is where seal of truth is more immediate damage.. and immediate damage = faster threat right?

So my complaint from an AOE perspective:

It's impossible to hold onto AOE mobs in LFR, just impossible. In heroic 5 mans, i have no problem, but as soon as I hit the LFR, my threat is nothing. It's embarrassing to have to individually taunt mobs, and watch them go right back to the target.

I'm keeping concencrate down at all times, i even have my aoe special to help on cd. Hammer of righteous is used at all times in aoe situation, and wrath is up next.

what can i be doing wrong in AOE situations? Is this something that is common on the boards? (I did a rough search but i'm new to using forums so if this is a re-post i apologize)

Another scenario, me and my warrior pal were in a 5 man heroic. I was hitting all my abilities, i feel like i have to button mash constantly ( my rotation on single boss is (Seal of truth) Concencrate, avenger sheild whenever its up, judgement, crusader strike, shield of righteous) and yet he kept pulling aggro off me. He was in just dps gear, doing dps..the only thing? He was in defensive stance.

I had righteous fury, so that tells me that by far without him even sundering, or using threat-increasing abilities, by just simply switching to a stance he was able to out-threat me.

Which really makes me feel useless, i'm trying my hardest, i'm keeping concencrate, i'm hitting my judgement, crusader strike, i'm using my abilities and i'm going nowhere..

when it comes to me being main tank in LFR, the dk's and warriors have no problem "accidentally" pulling as ot's...

So what is my complaint? That pally threat is inferior!

Please, blizzard...Increase the threat of righteous furry to scale with warriors, or at least make some abilities in protection more aggro friendly, because I LOVE tanking! and right now, i don't even want to play this guy, after all the hard work... I'm just about to roll warrior and give up.

So if someone has a similiar problem, or has a similar experience please put yours in this thread i guess to get the attention from the big boys.

thanks guys,

Sincerely Hakunmatata
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15860
02/13/2013 11:21 AMPosted by Hakunmatata
Check my glyph's, the one i particularly want to mention is where seal of truth is more immediate damage.. and immediate damage = faster threat right?


...It doesn't work that way...you're taking a net loss in damage, and by extent threat..

It's impossible to hold onto AOE mobs in LFR, just impossible. In heroic 5 mans, i have no problem, but as soon as I hit the LFR, my threat is nothing. It's embarrassing to have to individually taunt mobs, and watch them go right back to the target.


Trash is no different in raids. The only "difference" is that there is a second tank. And with two tanks in an aoe situation 99.9% of the time it doesn't matter who its hitting as long as it isn't cloth.

Another scenario, me and my warrior pal were in a 5 man heroic. I was hitting all my abilities, i feel like i have to button mash constantly ( my rotation on single boss is (Seal of truth) Concencrate, avenger sheild whenever its up, judgement, crusader strike, shield of righteous) and yet he kept pulling aggro off me. He was in just dps gear, doing dps..the only thing? He was in defensive stance.


He shouldn't be in defensive.

02/13/2013 11:21 AMPosted by Hakunmatata
I had righteous fury, so that tells me that by far without him even sundering, or using threat-increasing abilities, by just simply switching to a stance he was able to out-threat me.


Sunder doesn't work like that anymore. This isn't Vanilla.

Which really makes me feel useless, i'm trying my hardest, i'm keeping concencrate, i'm hitting my judgement, crusader strike, i'm using my abilities and i'm going nowhere..

when it comes to me being main tank in LFR, the dk's and warriors have no problem "accidentally" pulling as ot's...

So what is my complaint? That pally threat is inferior!

Please, blizzard...Increase the threat of righteous furry to scale with warriors, or at least make some abilities in protection more aggro friendly, because I LOVE tanking! and right now, i don't even want to play this guy, after all the hard work... I'm just about to roll warrior and give up


Righteous fury and Defensive stance have the exact same threat modifier. 500%.

But if hes being stupid and DPSing in defensive stance hes doing 500% of much more damage than you are because hes a DPS.

02/13/2013 11:21 AMPosted by Hakunmatata
So if someone has a similiar problem, or has a similar experience please put yours in this thread i guess to get the attention from the big boys.


Yeah. When I get Blood Pres/Def stance DPS I call them stupid and tell them to stop.
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90 Pandaren Monk
15630

Another scenario, me and my warrior pal were in a 5 man heroic. I was hitting all my abilities, i feel like i have to button mash constantly ( my rotation on single boss is (Seal of truth) Concencrate, avenger sheild whenever its up, judgement, crusader strike, shield of righteous) and yet he kept pulling aggro off me. He was in just dps gear, doing dps..the only thing? He was in defensive stance.

I had righteous fury, so that tells me that by far without him even sundering, or using threat-increasing abilities, by just simply switching to a stance he was able to out-threat me.


defensive stance = righteous fury and all other "tank stances" for that matter. They all give you the exact same threat buff .... so if you and your "not so smart" friend are both in a "tank stance", whoever deals more dmg, will automatically have a higher threat output.

guess which one of you will deal more dmg ... you as a tank or a warrior as dps ? him, obviously ...

so yeh, it's not a little, but VERY stupid from him to even be in defensive stance. That stance is to TANK .. not to dps. I honestly can't stress enough how idiotic this is from him.

the only problem of paladins concerning aggro, is that they do have a lower initial threat compared to other tanks. Once vengeance kicks in, it evens out and everyone is relatively on par. But yeh .. at the beginning of the fight, they are lower than other tanks.

In theory, this will get a little better on 5.2, but for now is just something you have to work around ... And it's not the end of the world. It's part of tank's job to manage their own threat and not steal aggro from one another randomly.

in this matter there's no "getting attention from blues". They know about it, we told them about it .. yelling wont make it better. When they solve, they solve it.
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90 Tauren Paladin
9685
You could be doing things wrong, but paladin base damage with no veng is pathetic. Consecrations base damage is getting buffed, but we will still probably suck at initial threat.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8180
This is my first tank toon, obviously not 90 yet...We'll see how things are at 90. I agree that pally base damage is pretty low. Maybe its something you're doing at the pull? Maybe its your gear? Maybe the ot was much better geared than you? I don't know for sure.

I'm no pro at pally tanking....but have you tried tanking in Seal of Insight and use Glyph of the Battle Healer? I've always heard you get a lot of extra threat from all the healing. It seems to work.

And yes, if your warrior friend was in defensive stance (for whatever reason) of course he's going to pull mobs off you.
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90 Tauren Paladin
5345
This is my first tank toon, obviously not 90 yet...We'll see how things are at 90. I agree that pally base damage is pretty low. Maybe its something you're doing at the pull? Maybe its your gear? Maybe the ot was much better geared than you? I don't know for sure.

I'm no pro at pally tanking....but have you tried tanking in Seal of Insight and use Glyph of the Battle Healer? I've always heard you get a lot of extra threat from all the healing. It seems to work.

And yes, if your warrior friend was in defensive stance (for whatever reason) of course he's going to pull mobs off you.


I started using the Seal of Insight with the Glyph of Battle Healer and its honestly very nice. I don't seem to have as much trouble with keeping threat with mobs. Maybe its that or I'm just imagining it but it seems to be an improvement for me.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8180
02/13/2013 01:47 PMPosted by Dannysr
I started using the Seal of Insight with the Glyph of Battle Healer and its honestly very nice. I don't seem to have as much trouble with keeping threat with mobs. Maybe its that or I'm just imagining it but it seems to be an improvement for me.

It is nice isn't it :) Usually when I get out of a dungeon I check the healing done, and my healing done is over half of the healer's lol. I don't think you're imagining either, I rarely have threat problems (so far). Also, I usually play healers, and I think it makes a big difference. The ones that use this seem to have less threat problems AND barely take damage.
Edited by Céles on 2/13/2013 2:23 PM PST
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90 Tauren Paladin
5345
02/13/2013 02:07 PMPosted by Céles
I started using the Seal of Insight with the Glyph of Battle Healer and its honestly very nice. I don't seem to have as much trouble with keeping threat with mobs. Maybe its that or I'm just imagining it but it seems to be an improvement for me.

It is nice isn't it :) Usually when I get out of a dungeon I check the healing done, and my healing done is over half of the healer's lol. I don't think you're imagining either, I rarely have threat problems (so far). Also, I usually play healers, and I think it makes a big difference. The ones that use this seem to have less threat problems AND barely take less damage.


My main is my beautiful Holy Priest and I can tell you that I have an easier time healing a Paladin with this glyph than those without. I rarely have to worry about the dps losing alot of health. <3 to Paladin Tank-Healers. :P
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90 Tauren Paladin
11340
02/13/2013 02:11 PMPosted by Dannysr

It is nice isn't it :) Usually when I get out of a dungeon I check the healing done, and my healing done is over half of the healer's lol. I don't think you're imagining either, I rarely have threat problems (so far). Also, I usually play healers, and I think it makes a big difference. The ones that use this seem to have less threat problems AND barely take less damage.


My main is my beautiful Holy Priest and I can tell you that I have an easier time healing a Paladin with this glyph than those without. I rarely have to worry about the dps losing alot of health. <3 to Paladin Tank-Healers. :P


That glyph doesn't make paladins any easier to heal as it doesn't directly affect them. The difference is likely just the fact that they're using seal of insight at all.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14540
02/13/2013 03:00 PMPosted by Darpalta
That glyph doesn't make paladins any easier to heal as it doesn't directly affect them.


02/13/2013 02:11 PMPosted by Dannysr
I rarely have to worry about the dps losing alot of health


:p
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8180
That glyph doesn't make paladins any easier to heal as it doesn't directly affect them. The difference is likely just the fact that they're using seal of insight at all.

I mentioned the glyph because I had heard it gives extra threat, and that's what the op needed help with. When I said they barely take any damage, I meant from tanking in SoI...I should have clarified :/
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9250
I have a DK tank thats our offtank for my guild runs and let me tell you, I have almost eight more gear score points than he does and he can still pull threat from me. I think pallies have just been !@#$ on a bit by Blizz at the moment in the threat department. I regularly heal myself with word of glory on all mobs or rotate it with shield of the righteous, and my expertise is up to 13% or higher. Im hit capped again but honestly I don't think hit is needed nearly as much as expertise. If you want to gen better threat, stick with more expertise and get it to the hard cap.

Also, but it seems like DK's can just generate the threat so much more because of rune strike. That thing they spam almost constantly, at least thats what my tanking partner tells me everytime he pulls threat from me. Seal of Insight, Battle Healer, then constantly update your sacred shield and heal yourself while tanking to gen your threat an you should be fine.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10280
On feng, when we do our tank swaps, I basically have to stop hitting Feng for a while. Our poor paladin tank just cannot keep me from pulling off of him. Even just jabs and blackout kicks. I basically have to white hit for several seconds. Keg smash makes Feng just turn on me and say HI THERE.
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Keg Smash should just double as a Monk's taunt, lol.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
3810
I want to know wth is bugged with locks felguard thingy. No taunt goes up but the boss goes for the demon, I taunt it goes right back to the demon. Seriously is this bugged or something.
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90 Pandaren Monk
12820
I've noticed that in LFR that I have to let the Pally pull the trash packs and let him take all the dmg for a good second or two before I keg smash or I'm going to solo tank all of the trash.

Which means coming up on the trash packs in dread vaults and terrace, I die pretty quick as the heals in LFR aren't prepared for "big spammin"

Also, when you're in the LFR, get an add marker addon like Quickmark and mark your first add. Then let the derp dps who aren't on your add...die. Healers are pretty adept at letting dps who can't stay on skull die and the dps can either learn or have repair bills.

Once your add dies, remark your target with skull. Rinse and repeat. That way, the single target dpsers shouldn't have any issue and your global threat should be more than adequate.

I've raided as all three roles and it's not too much to ask of the dps...even in LFR... to work with the tank so he can do his job.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15860
02/14/2013 01:22 PMPosted by Tivana
I want to know wth is bugged with locks felguard thingy. No taunt goes up but the boss goes for the demon, I taunt it goes right back to the demon. Seriously is this bugged or something.


Tell the warlock to turn off threatening presence
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
3810
02/14/2013 01:26 PMPosted by Ðemolition
Tell the warlock to turn off threatening presence


thanks I forgot about that, and I used to play a lock /facepalm
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90 Human Paladin
10855
Hi this is my first post on the forums, and I hope that people will get to see this and give me some feedback.
So I have an issue about my paladin, and that issue is threat. First thing first, lets tell you what i'm doing with my gear-

Right now I'm hit capped, and soft exp capped, working on getting hard exp capped..

So off the bat, i know i'm not missing my boss, and he's not dodging me, that already is a boost to threat right?
And i always have righteous fury on.
Check my glyph's, the one i particularly want to mention is where seal of truth is more immediate damage.. and immediate damage = faster threat right?

So my complaint from an AOE perspective:

It's impossible to hold onto AOE mobs in LFR, just impossible. In heroic 5 mans, i have no problem, but as soon as I hit the LFR, my threat is nothing. It's embarrassing to have to individually taunt mobs, and watch them go right back to the target.

I'm keeping concencrate down at all times, i even have my aoe special to help on cd. Hammer of righteous is used at all times in aoe situation, and wrath is up next.

what can i be doing wrong in AOE situations? Is this something that is common on the boards? (I did a rough search but i'm new to using forums so if this is a re-post i apologize)

Another scenario, me and my warrior pal were in a 5 man heroic. I was hitting all my abilities, i feel like i have to button mash constantly ( my rotation on single boss is (Seal of truth) Concencrate, avenger sheild whenever its up, judgement, crusader strike, shield of righteous) and yet he kept pulling aggro off me. He was in just dps gear, doing dps..the only thing? He was in defensive stance.

I had righteous fury, so that tells me that by far without him even sundering, or using threat-increasing abilities, by just simply switching to a stance he was able to out-threat me.

Which really makes me feel useless, i'm trying my hardest, i'm keeping concencrate, i'm hitting my judgement, crusader strike, i'm using my abilities and i'm going nowhere..

when it comes to me being main tank in LFR, the dk's and warriors have no problem "accidentally" pulling as ot's...

So what is my complaint? That pally threat is inferior!

Please, blizzard...Increase the threat of righteous furry to scale with warriors, or at least make some abilities in protection more aggro friendly, because I LOVE tanking! and right now, i don't even want to play this guy, after all the hard work... I'm just about to roll warrior and give up.

So if someone has a similiar problem, or has a similar experience please put yours in this thread i guess to get the attention from the big boys.

thanks guys,

Sincerely Hakunmatata


frist mistake is useing seal of truth use insight, also if your 90 I didnt bother to check the 90 talent that lets you toss the hammer is very helpful but if you switch to seal of insight instead of truth it will solve most of your problems
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