Blizzard killing Disc Priest

90 Pandaren Priest
19205
(Aside - if someone can explain to me how Chakra is a positive in a ten man raid where you need to both side target and raid heal at the same time, I would greatly appreciate it).


It isn't "positive" but it's workable. Paragon's Priest is a big proponent of sitting in Serenity and raid healing via Renew.


Really? Interesting...I suppose if Sanc's borderline useless the only reason to be in that chakra is for the buff, but that would mean that renew can out-hps PoH and CoH...or at least adequately replace it.
Edited by Kerias on 2/13/2013 1:45 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
02/13/2013 01:44 PMPosted by Kerias


It isn't "positive" but it's workable. Paragon's Priest is a big proponent of sitting in Serenity and raid healing via Renew.


Really? Interesting...I suppose if Sanc's borderline useless the only reason to be in that chakra is for the buff, but that would mean that renew can out-hps PoH and CoH...or at least adequately replace it.


Well, they're 10 man now. It works well in 10 man, where PoH isn't always going to do the trick, and there's a CD on CoH.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Heh, further math and testing reveals that IF simply doubles SS after all. It works with SS, but all it does is double the number on Live. Took me unforging all of my gear to get the numbers right, tho. Can't tell if it's doing the same thing on the PTR at the moment.

However, the same math doesn't appear to apply on the PTR. Since it's down, I can't double check, but my napkin math doesn't match the results I got the last time I was on the PTR.
Edited by Tiriél on 2/13/2013 2:01 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12630
It does work. It does actually do what it says it does.

(PoH + 30% DA) * (1 + Crit) * (1 + Mastery)

For me:

(28917 + 8675) * (1+1.0892) * (1+0.3879)

37592 * 2.0892 * 1.3879

109,001.78876256

This is within 4k of the numbers I get casting the actual spell. There is rounding and other jury mandering of the numbers that goes on (you ever notice how your PoH will heal for slightly different amounts, non Crit, even without factoring in Grace? Yes, this is part of that.), but this is close enough that the equation can be taken as "correct."


I am not saying that your math is wrong. You are following the equation correctly. What I am saying is that this equation is the end result of a string of failures to make Inner Focus work correctly with Spirit Shell on Beta. They never got it to work, so this is a work-around solution, not the original intention.

This is why I said to test it the other way. For example, cast Inner Focus + Greater Heal. Add the heal to the Divine Aegis. Let's say it's a 200,000 crit and 120,000 Divine Aegis. If Spirit Shell does what it says it does (converts a spell's effects into a shield) and Inner Focus does what it says it does (increases your critical chance by 100%), then the shield should be at least 320,000 absorb, which is equal to your critical heal. But it's not. It's much lower than that. Either the Divine Aegis component or the 100% crit component is getting left out of Spirit Shell when Inner Focus is used.

Prayer of Healing works very strangely with it because of the built-in Aegis. So it's even more unusual.
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90 Human Priest
15890
02/13/2013 01:40 PMPosted by Tiriél
(Aside - if someone can explain to me how Chakra is a positive in a ten man raid where you need to both side target and raid heal at the same time, I would greatly appreciate it).


It isn't "positive" but it's workable. Paragon's Priest is a big proponent of sitting in Serenity and raid healing via Renew.


I just don't have a high appreciation for the feeling that "I'm trying to figure out how to heal in spite of the deliberate limitations that the designers have baked in... especially when they try to call it a 'core mechanic' and 'a good thing'."
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90 Troll Priest
12105
02/13/2013 01:56 PMPosted by Nzete


It isn't "positive" but it's workable. Paragon's Priest is a big proponent of sitting in Serenity and raid healing via Renew.


I just don't have a high appreciation for the feeling that "I'm trying to figure out how to heal in spite of the deliberate limitations that the designers have baked in... especially when they try to call it a 'core mechanic' and 'a good thing'."


Said the same thing about Grace for a while now. lol
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110


I just don't have a high appreciation for the feeling that "I'm trying to figure out how to heal in spite of the deliberate limitations that the designers have baked in... especially when they try to call it a 'core mechanic' and 'a good thing'."


Said the same thing about Grace for a while now. lol


Yeah, I'm not thrilled with either, trust me.
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90 Pandaren Priest
19205
02/13/2013 01:55 PMPosted by Ångel
What I am saying is that this equation is the end result of a string of failures to make Inner Focus work correctly with Spirit Shell on Beta. They never got it to work, so this is a work-around solution, not the original intention.


Can you cite this original intention?
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90 Human Priest
15890
Grace is up there on my list as well.
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90 Pandaren Priest
19205
I pretty much ignore grace unless I'm tunneling heals on the tank, which is pretty much never unless it's Lei Shi in which case I'm far too busy casting smite.

It was an okay mechanic in Cata, I guess, but for some reason fell to the wayside for MoP.
Edited by Kerias on 2/13/2013 2:06 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12630
02/13/2013 02:03 PMPosted by Kerias
What I am saying is that this equation is the end result of a string of failures to make Inner Focus work correctly with Spirit Shell on Beta. They never got it to work, so this is a work-around solution, not the original intention.


Can you cite this original intention?


If you can find the MoP Beta Forums. Not sure where they are now.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12630
I pretty much ignore grace unless I'm tunneling heals on the tank, which is pretty much never unless it's Lei Shi in which case I'm far too busy casting smite.

It was an okay mechanic in Cata, I guess, but for some reason fell to the wayside for MoP.


It's still a highly useful mechanic in PvP though.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
I pretty much ignore grace unless I'm tunneling heals on the tank, which is pretty much never unless it's Lei Shi in which case I'm far too busy casting smite.

It was an okay mechanic in Cata, I guess, but for some reason fell to the wayside for MoP.


It's still a highly useful mechanic in PvP though.


Man, I wish I had time to care about Grace in PvP.
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90 Troll Priest
12105


It's still a highly useful mechanic in PvP though.


Man, I wish I had time to care about Grace in PvP.


Grace is up! ... and I am down.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
02/13/2013 02:21 PMPosted by Vear
Grace is up! ... and I am down.


You cannot do that while stunned.

You cannot do that while stunned.

You cannot do that while stunned.

LOW HEALTH!

Grace expires.

You are dead.
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90 Undead Priest
16470


I'm a 25 man raider too? I don't see why PW:S would stop being good in a 25-man. By this logic, every heal and CD that doesn't scale proportionally to raid size becomes pretty insignificant too.


I had to boggle at this as well. DS was all about PW:S spam at the 25 and 10 man level.

I'm glad PoH is losing its universal panacea status.


@Ceddya, I'm aware you are a 25man raider, but your comment was on 10man Heroic.
PW:S is a great tool in either format, but in 10man, the need to AoE is lessened and as such casting a few PW:S is going to be more effective than doing the same thing in 25man. PW:S is not a substitute for PoH unless we are allowed to spam it

@Kerias: Yes PW:S spam was all the rage, but they aren't going to let us do that again (nor at PW:S's current cost [on the PTR] can we).

I too would be glad for PoH spam to be gone (I've never been more bored with my class as I am right now) as long as we got something else to do in between that was effective for raid healing. PoH without DA is not effective for raid healing (when compared to every other healer). Casting single target heals is not effective for raid healing unless they exist over time (hots or shields).

Again I repeat Disc has no viable way to heal the raid in 5.2, and with current raids being built solely around huge bucketloads of raid damage, any healer than cannot help keep the raid alive is a bad healer. If Disc is no longer going to be the absorb healer, then give us something else. Because when 5.2 hits, Holy Paladin's will be doing more absorbing than we will (even if it's in more consistent smaller amounts).
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90 Undead Priest
7425
I pretty much ignore grace unless I'm tunneling heals on the tank, which is pretty much never unless it's Lei Shi in which case I'm far too busy casting smite.

It was an okay mechanic in Cata, I guess, but for some reason fell to the wayside for MoP.


This is exactly how I do it too. In that specific encounter.

Oh, also in Heroic Gaurdians. Pretty much only scenarios where the tank getting constantly smashed.

Managing Grace (and the 10 other things I have to pay attention to as a Disc priest) isn't worth it in non-face-smashing content.
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90 Pandaren Priest
19205
Meh, I see no point in worrying.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10645
02/13/2013 03:03 PMPosted by Kerias
Meh, I see no point in worrying.

^

Blizzard doesn't fix Disc on beta/PTR. They let it go live, then hotfix it. That's probably the spec's only consistent defining characteristic.

I give it 2 weeks before something gets buffed by 25-300%.
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90 Night Elf Priest
13930
02/13/2013 11:38 AMPosted by Ceddya
There is no way your SS is hitting for as much as your PoH does. Mine was shielding for ~40k on the PTR and ~70k on live when Mastery stacked. It's obviously going to shield for more after reforging to Crit and it's still a substantial nerf, but your SS will still scale from Crit and to a much lesser extent, Mastery.


To weigh in on this belatedly...

These were my findings on the PTR:

Self-buffed only with Inner Fire

Mastery Heavy (M: 45.59, H: 4.26, C: 8.86, SP: 26,191)

PoH: 30,636
SS: 37,422

Haste Heavy (M: 31.51, H: 12.35, C: 8.86, SP: 26,191)

PoH: 30,636
SS: 37,028

Crit Heavy (M: 31.51, H: 3.58, C: 14.73, SP: 26,099 [different shoulders])

PoH: 30,558
SS: 41,161

Edit:

Also, I wouldn't say that I'm unconcerned by the changes. I do think they're overboard but, as Kaels said, the cycle seems to be nerf on beta/PTR, hotfix on live. Not a great situation, but it doesn't seem likely to change. :/
Edited by Elethia on 2/13/2013 3:35 PM PST
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