Blizzard killing Disc Priest

90 Troll Priest
9335
gets buffed by 25-300%.


I giggle.. because it is accurate. ;P
Edited by Shaylira on 2/13/2013 3:36 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18065
Elethia, did you check out your PW:S comparing the three builds?
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100 Night Elf Priest
13880
02/13/2013 03:43 PMPosted by Taymage
Elethia, did you check out your PW:S comparing the three builds?


I did!

Mastery Heavy: 99,626
Haste: 89,992
Crit: 89,765 (remember that I had slightly lower SP due to swapping shoulders; otherwise, it would be equal to the PW:Shield in the Haste test)
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18065
It kind of looks like the bottom line is that haste will not be your friend, and a balance of crit and mastery will be your friend, depending on how much shielding you use for your playstyle. Maybe?
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12515
So adding 14.08% Mastery (3379 secondary stat points) gives you just under 11% more PWS; adding 5.87% Crit (3520 secondary stat points) gives you just over 11% more SS. (The latter is rather odd and implies that there's something in the SS formula making Crit about twice as good as it should be.)

That might actually bring Crit ahead of Mastery, since it does affect other spells. Surprising. Of course, it depends on how much healing PWS accounts for vs. SS + stuff that can crit.

Might just want to go for balanced Crit/Mastery.
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90 Human Priest
5860
Looking at the EJ discussion, Mastery will be nearly worthless until you're PW:S spamming. Crit > Haste or Haste/Spirit seem to be the better gearing strategies.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18065
02/13/2013 04:31 PMPosted by Evry
Looking at the EJ discussion, Mastery will be nearly worthless until you're PW:S spamming. Crit > Haste or Haste/Spirit seem to be the better gearing strategies.


According to Elethia's numbers, it seems fairly straightforward that haste is worse than mastery.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
5510
02/13/2013 09:42 AMPosted by Shammyren
Another one? Dear Lord Above, people act like its the end of the world when a Spec gets nerfed. I mean, come on now, it wont be unplayable, its just a nerd, it happens to everyone at one point or another.


Thing is though, this returns disc almost exactly to where it was in Cata before the DA/POH interaction was added. IE: has a niche role in 10s, but nearly useless in 25s.

I know that Spirit Shell was way, way too strong. But increasing it's cd to 3mins and tweaking the amount of DA applied by POH would have been sufficient.

Instead they removed DA auto application from POH and gutted mastery, while slightly improving PW:S. This means that priests ...yeah. Niche role in 10s, not really viable in 25s.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12515
Looking at the EJ discussion, Mastery will be nearly worthless until you're PW:S spamming. Crit > Haste or Haste/Spirit seem to be the better gearing strategies.


According to Elethia's numbers, it seems fairly straightforward that haste is worse than mastery.

No, Haste does what Haste always does: makes casts faster. For non-DoT specs, it doesn't make them bigger. But it may still be worth having. Disc valued it in Cata.
Edited by Kaels on 2/13/2013 4:54 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12515
02/13/2013 04:52 PMPosted by Sorrów
where it was in Cata before the DA/POH interaction was added

That was Wrath. Auto-DA was added in 4.0.3.

02/13/2013 04:52 PMPosted by Sorrów
IE: has a niche role in 10s, but nearly useless in 25s.

Disc was highly valued (if not required) in 25s during its PWS-heavy era. You just had to bring two of them.

Also, Disc is absolutely nowhere near where it was in Wrath in terms of spell imbalances. Literally everything Disc could cast at that time other than PWS and Penance and maybe PoM was awful. Even PoM wasn't worth casting if there was a chance of interfering with a holy priest's. Disc FH was pathetic, and its PoH was worse. (PoH didn't get a lot of play in Wrath even for Holy, but for Disc, it might as well not have existed.) Meanwhile, PWS was probably the best ability in the game.

The current version is much more balanced. Disc PoH is clearly worth casting when it's appropriate. PoM and Penance are solid spells. Atonement is very strong. PWS is good, but not literally twice as good as everything else in the spellbook and mana-positive to boot.
Edited by Kaels on 2/13/2013 5:04 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
02/13/2013 04:38 PMPosted by Taymage
According to Elethia's numbers, it seems fairly straightforward that haste is worse than mastery.


The numbers don't exactly account for the fact that Haste will allow you to fit in an additional PoH cast per SS. That being said, Crit looks like it'd be our go-to stat, if only for the fact that it provides both a throughput and efficiency increase.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
5510
02/13/2013 04:57 PMPosted by Kaels
That was Wrath. Auto-DA was added in 4.0.3.


Are...you positive? My memory may not be perfect but I do remember a period between the old PW:S being removed and auto DA being added.

02/13/2013 04:57 PMPosted by Kaels
Disc was highly valued (if not required) in 25s during its PWS-heavy era. You just had to bring two of them.


Yes, in Wrath with the old PW:S mechanic. If BLizzard puts the duration of PW:S up by a few seconds, people would be a lot happier. But then we are back to ye-olde PW:S blanketing.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12515
02/13/2013 05:05 PMPosted by Sorrów
Are...you positive? My memory may not be perfect but I do remember a period between the old PW:S being removed and auto DA being added.

Positive. Actually, you've got the order wrong; the PWS duration reduction was quite a while after the PoH DA addition.

http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/11/23/patch-4-0-3a-the-shattering-patch-notes/
Divine Aegis is now always triggered by Prayer of Healing in addition to critical heals from all other spells.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2657803
Power Word: Shield duration has been reduced to 15 seconds, down from 30.
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90 Human Priest
5860
02/13/2013 04:38 PMPosted by Taymage
According to Elethia's numbers, it seems fairly straightforward that haste is worse than mastery.

Pretty sure in 5.2 stam is better than mastery if you only cast pws for Rapture.

None of our secondary stats are particularly stellar. crit edges out haste for throughput per point, but there are some interesting haste breakpoints (for BT renew, 8 casts per SS) and it's easier to not overheal with haste.

Kaels- pws is still very much mana negative, and PoH is fairly low in healing priority in aoe situations. PWS->PoM->Penance->PoH sequence would be more useful if BT/PoM/Penance weren't all 10s and rapture 12.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12515
02/13/2013 05:14 PMPosted by Evry
Kaels- pws is still very much mana negative

I know - that was part of my point. We're not where we were in Wrath, because PWS doesn't eat all the other spells' lunch.

02/13/2013 05:14 PMPosted by Evry
and PoH is fairly low in healing priority in aoe situations.

Just because it's low priority doesn't mean it's a bad spell. Just means you have better spells. A 'filler' should be low priority.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
5510
Positive. Actually, you've got the order wrong; the PWS duration reduction was quite a while after the PoH DA addition.http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/11/23/patch-4-0-3a-the-shattering-patch-notes/


Ah, you were right. My memory is failing me in my old age I guess.

Just because it's low priority doesn't mean it's a bad spell. Just means you have better spells. A 'filler' should be low priority.


What better spells does disc have for heavy AOE situations in 25s?
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12515
02/13/2013 05:41 PMPosted by Sorrów
What better spells does disc have for heavy AOE situations in 25s?

Well, if you don't have better spells, then clearly it's not low-priority. You can't say "It's a low-priority spell" and then try to tell me that you don't have any better ones.

(But I'm actually pretty sure PoM trumps it, and I think offensive Penance does now too. And weaving PWS may be a gain as well.)
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100 Night Elf Priest
13880
02/13/2013 04:12 PMPosted by Taymage
It kind of looks like the bottom line is that haste will not be your friend, and a balance of crit and mastery will be your friend, depending on how much shielding you use for your playstyle. Maybe?


Well, Haste is good for straight PoH/Atonement/targeted heal HPS. I'll probably work with Crit/Haste, though I may work some Mastery in there (unless I want to reforge whenever I go Holy).
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85 Blood Elf Mage
5510
Well, if you don't have better spells, then clearly it's not low-priority. You can't say "It's a low-priority spell" and then try to tell me that you don't have any better ones.(But I'm actually pretty sure PoM trumps it, and I think offensive Penance does now too. And weaving PWS may be a gain as well.)


From the discussion threads, PW:S 'weaving' is only going to be worth it in 10s, or for Rap in 25s.

Offensive Penance...I'll wait and see. But I don't think that this qualifies at all as reliable AOE raid healing due to the extreme restrictions on the spell.

I will say that I'm feeling very much pushed towards Holy in 25s. Not because I want to play Holy, but because if the burst/spike AOE heavy healing landscape in T14 persists into T15 I don't think that I will be able to keep up as disc.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
From the discussion threads, PW:S 'weaving' is only going to be worth it in 10s, or for Rap in 25s.

Offensive Penance...I'll wait and see. But I don't think that this qualifies at all as reliable AOE raid healing due to the extreme restrictions on the spell.

I will say that I'm feeling very much pushed towards Holy in 25s. Not because I want to play Holy, but because if the burst/spike AOE heavy healing landscape in T14 persists into T15 I don't think that I will be able to keep up as disc.


The situations that would favour PW:S weaving in 10 mans would also do the same in 25 mans, and one should be taking full advantage of the fact that our instants will not consume BT.

Also, offensive Penance heals the 3 lowest raid targets within 40 yards of the boss for a total that's quite a bit more than CoH. It's going to be Disc's highest HPS and HPM spell. What exactly are the extreme restrictions?

Further, fights with spikes in damage will still favour Disc over Holy. It's not like they've removed SS and the mana reduction to PW:S will make it easier to pre-emptively stack PW:S on the raid if SS is down.
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