S13 Honor Gear vs S12 2/2 Gear

1 Dwarf Shaman
0
Ok I know you're trying to protect your precious PVE environment by making all the iLvLs on S13 pvp honor gear lower then the prior season. But if you don't like the idea of pvp gear somehow skipping raidfinder content then make pvp gear not contribute to PVE ilvl.

Next season aims to be the worst season to start fresh. People with 2/2 upgraded T1 will be miles higher on stats then people with S13 honor gear.

Here is the difference between 2/2 S12 PVP gear and S13 Honor gear for a DK (using shoulder piece as an example)

S12 2/2:
4070 Armor
781 Strength
1301 Stamina
492 Expertise
578 Haste
346 PVP Power
346 Resilience

S13 Honor:
3869 Armor
674 Strength
1131 Stamina
423 Expertise
503 Haste
398 PVP Power
398 Resilience

Difference of :
-107 Strength
-170 Stamina
-69 Expertise
-75 Haste
+52 PVP Power
+52 Resilience

Also since pvp power and resilience are half the budget of raw stats (160 agi/str/int compared to 320 pvp power/resilience based on gems). Stamina is 1.5 value.
You're looking at a gain of +52 raw stats at a loss of -382~ raw stats so a overall loss of -330~ raw stats and that is just 1 piece of gear.

Multiply that number by 12 pieces (not including weapon, not including trinkets) and lets even put the stat loss at 200 and you're looking at 2400 stats lost in a full set of gear and that is being incredibly generous. (Realistically closer to a 4000 stat loss)

Remove Ilvl from pvp gear if you're so concerned about it ruining pve.
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
We need more QQ threads on this very issue.
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90 Human Warlock
7750
What's your point? There is no big difference how it always have been. People who don't have any PvP gear will have to purchase crafted ilvl458 items. Forward from there you will still have to grind through random BGs to get honor gear of ilvl476.

From there, upgraded current conquest gear is ilvl491 which makes a gap of only 15 pts when starting season between fully geared players and honor geared players. Moreover, blizzard highly increased resilience on honor gear to improve further survivability.
Edited by Kerrighan on 2/18/2013 5:10 AM PST
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1 Dwarf Shaman
0
What's your point? There is no big difference how it always have been. People who don't have any PvP gear will have to purchase crafted ilvl458 items. Forward from there you will still have to grind through random BGs to get honor gear of ilvl476.

From there, upgraded current conquest gear is ilvl491 which makes a gap of only 15 pts when starting season between fully geared players and honor geared players. Moreover, blizzard highly increased resilience on honor gear to improve further survivability.


Its like you didnt even read anything I posted at all.
You're getting 52 stats for a 382 stat loss. 2/2 gear is absurdly higher then s13 honor gear. Making you spend roughly 9 weeks(at a 3k cap) just to break even.

Cata had the system partially right with higher stat allocated honor gear each season.

Pvp is a competitive system where balance should be strived for. Having a gear gap of ~4000 stats makes rerolling, alts, or starting fresh nearly impossible.
Edited by Bestbeard on 2/18/2013 5:30 AM PST
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90 Human Warlock
7750
What's your point? There is no big difference how it always have been. People who don't have any PvP gear will have to purchase crafted ilvl458 items. Forward from there you will still have to grind through random BGs to get honor gear of ilvl476.

From there, upgraded current conquest gear is ilvl491 which makes a gap of only 15 pts when starting season between fully geared players and honor geared players. Moreover, blizzard highly increased resilience on honor gear to improve further survivability.


Its like you didnt even read anything I posted at all.
You're getting 52 stats for a 382 stat loss. 2/2 gear is absurdly higher then s13 honor gear. Making you spend roughly 9 weeks just to break even.

Cata had the system partially right with higher stat allocated honor gear each season.

Pvp is a competitive system where balance should be strived for. Having a gear gap of ~4000 stats makes rerolling, alts, or starting fresh nearly impossible.


Resilience and pvp power is the most valuable stat in PvP. You think from PvE experience, that's your problem. Look from another side. Using your "very approximative" math 52 x12 nets you 624 more resilience and pvp power than the best geared player.

For the same reason ivl496 raid gear is hundred times worse than ilvl458 honor gear in pvp environment.

The only noticeable superiority geared players will have is their T2 weapon. Even so, that T2 weapon you will be able to get after 2 weeks conquest cap.

Also currently geared players will be stack in progress for those 9-11 weeks before they unlock 27k conquest cap, coz upgrading ilvl491 gear over ilvl493 isn't really worth it, which gives you enough time to catch up with whatever alt you have.
Edited by Kerrighan on 2/18/2013 5:47 AM PST
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1 Dwarf Shaman
0


Its like you didnt even read anything I posted at all.
You're getting 52 stats for a 382 stat loss. 2/2 gear is absurdly higher then s13 honor gear. Making you spend roughly 9 weeks just to break even.

Cata had the system partially right with higher stat allocated honor gear each season.

Pvp is a competitive system where balance should be strived for. Having a gear gap of ~4000 stats makes rerolling, alts, or starting fresh nearly impossible.


Resilience and pvp power is the most valuable stat in PvP. You think from PvE experience, that's your problem. Look from another side. Using your "very approximative" math 52 x12 nets you 624 more resilience and pvp power than the best geared player.

For the same reason ivl496 raid gear is hundred times worse than ilvl458 honor gear in pvp environment.

The only noticeable superiority geared players will have is their T2 weapon.

Also currently geared players will be stack in progress for those 9-11 weeks before they unlock 27k conquest cap, coz upgrading ilvl491 gear over ilvl493 isn't really worth it, which gives you enough time to catch up with whatever alt you have.


It's like you dont understand anything at all.
I even made it simple to understand by comparing gems.
Yes you gain 624 more res/power at a loss of 4000 raw stats.
Now let say for example instead of gemming full resilience/power because you now have 624 extra to work with you replace 4 gems with 160 raw stats per gem. Thats still 3300~ less raw stats.

Also those players have to upgrade their gear because there will be a mandated 5k conquest point cap so they will HAVE to spend points.

It's also been proven that pvp power is worse then resilience based on dmg done vs dmg received.

Lastly the S13 T1 weapon will be worse then then Old S12 T2 2/2 weapon, which has not been the case since pvp has been out.
Edited by Bestbeard on 2/18/2013 5:54 AM PST
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90 Human Warlock
7750
Fck man, you are completely dumb or what? You are comparing stats like stamina, strength, expertise!!, hit, crit, haste!! vs resilience and pvp power!!! Only complete ignorant could do that. Only stamina is comparable to resilience and strength to pvp power, the rest is junk. Also in no level it scales 1 to 1 and since when honor gear was better than conquest gear? All I can say is you know nothing about pvp stats.
02/18/2013 05:51 AMPosted by Bestbeard
Also those players have to upgrade their gear because there will be a mandated 5k conquest point cap so they will HAVE to spend points.

So tell me, where they gonna spend it? On +2ivl upgrades to be replaced in next weeks? That will definitely ruin new player experience.
02/18/2013 05:51 AMPosted by Bestbeard
Lastly the S13 T1 weapon will be worse then then Old S12 T2 2/2 weapon, which has not been the case since pvp has been out.

How is this bad or good? Explain please.
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1 Dwarf Shaman
0
Not even going to bother trying to explain anything to you anymore.
(Just a hint though, every season during cata the honor gear was > conquest for the start of each season so everyone could catch up)

If you can't see how bad this is for pvp balance then you're probably not good at this game. I can already tell you have a poor grasp on english.
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Coming from a guy who doesnt do arena or rated bgs...

Why should I be able to level. say this shaman, to 90 1 week before 5.2 and then grind for a week and suddenly have better gear than people that have been upgrading for 3 months now?

It is hardly going to be the issue that people are crying over.
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90 Tauren Druid
11740
Coming from a guy who doesnt do arena or rated bgs...

Why should I be able to level. say this shaman, to 90 1 week before 5.2 and then grind for a week and suddenly have better gear than people that have been upgrading for 3 months now?

It is hardly going to be the issue that people are crying over.


Easy question to answer.

Because last season is not this season. Why should what you did last season have any bearing on the new one?

Let me put it to you this way. Should people who raided in cata have had a massive gear advantage coming into MoP? I mean, why should you be able to level up a fresh character in the new expansion and catch up to people who spend the previous 2 years hard at work raiding?

Same !@#$.
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90 Tauren Druid
0
02/18/2013 03:08 PMPosted by Sorren
Why should I be able to level. say this shaman, to 90 1 week before 5.2 and then grind for a week and suddenly have better gear than people that have been upgrading for 3 months now?


You could have leveled your shaman to 85 1 week before MoP came out, ground honor, then had better pvp gear than all the people who earned gladiator in s11. Creating a pvp environment where you have to get a high cap from the start of the expansion or you get stuck perpetually behind the gear curve is not a good system.

02/18/2013 03:08 PMPosted by Sorren
It is hardly going to be the issue that people are crying over.


I've already spent 4 months behind the gear curve because I started MoP 6 weeks late. I've been capping every week and I still haven't finished a set of upgraded gear and I don't have my t2 wep. I'm really not looking forward to spending another 4 months sitting around running 2k pug rbgs because my gear is inferior at the beginning of the season and I never get as high a cap as the higher rated players.
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90 Undead Warlock
9200
Tyrannical gear itself is hardly any better than this seasons PVP gear. What a flop.
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1 Dwarf Shaman
0
Coming from a guy who doesnt do arena or rated bgs...

Why should I be able to level. say this shaman, to 90 1 week before 5.2 and then grind for a week and suddenly have better gear than people that have been upgrading for 3 months now?

It is hardly going to be the issue that people are crying over.


You make the assumption that I don't pvp or arena based on a level 1 alt I post with to deter those type of statements. If you must know I Have hero of the alliance and 2200 in every bracket. I'm not a gladiator in arena but I'm not horrible.

You should always have the opportunity for balanced pvp. The start of every season people should be "close" at the very least to one another. This season will start off with larger imbalances then wrath had thanks to upgraded gear and LOWER ilvl honor items.
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90 Orc Death Knight
7765
Coming from a guy who doesnt do arena or rated bgs...

Why should I be able to level. say this shaman, to 90 1 week before 5.2 and then grind for a week and suddenly have better gear than people that have been upgrading for 3 months now?

It is hardly going to be the issue that people are crying over.

Coming from another angle, does it make sense for people who have been playing catch-up this season to have to play catch up for a few weeks next season as well? If you started this season half way through you get to spend the end of this season behind the curve on gear, and the beginning of the next one as well. Why should someone have to wait several weeks just to have the same gear as another person? PvP shouldn't be centered around gear progression, it should be centered around a fair competitive environment.
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
Bump.. we need more QQ about this gear disparity.
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90 Tauren Druid
0
02/18/2013 03:40 PMPosted by Khryx
Coming from another angle, does it make sense for people who have been playing catch-up this season to have to play catch up for a few weeks next season as well?


If you get behind early, you're not actually "catching up" until the people at the top of the gear curve obtain all their gear. You're falling behind every week, even if you cap, because they are going to get more points than you every single week. It can literally take months to "catch up" if you start off behind, which is why we shouldn't have a new season where the people who have a gear advantage now get to carry it over.
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1 Dwarf Shaman
0
up
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1 Dwarf Shaman
0
up
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90 Human Warrior
7770
Not even going to bother trying to explain anything to you anymore.
(Just a hint though, every season during cata the honor gear was > conquest for the start of each season so everyone could catch up)

If you can't see how bad this is for pvp balance then you're probably not good at this game. I can already tell you have a poor grasp on english.

You just failed! Honor gear was = conquest gear, but never superior. I don't know if you pretend to be stupid or you really are. All the new system Blizzard developed for 5.2 is actually to make gearing easier for PvP. I recommend you to do more reading and less making embarrassing threads.
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6635393593#6

02/18/2013 03:37 PMPosted by Bestbeard
If you must know I Have hero of the alliance and 2200 in every bracket

These kind of statements are very expected from level 1. Nothing new here.
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