Why aren't you a GM?

90 Tauren Warrior
9435
Most GM's are really followers. Followers of an ideal set forth for them by their betters..who got it from someone else.


That's people in general I think. The amount of difficulty people have thinking for themselves scares me, and this board is certainly no exception to that.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
4550
Well in all seriousness, the reason most people don't seem to think for themselves, is that when they express an opinion that goes against the status-quo they get flamed. So many people decide to remain silent.
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I don't think someone who hasn't even capped a character yet has any right to form a raiding guild. I may be decently versed in theory crafting, raid mechanics, and team work-- but I haven't done it. Not with any sort of seriousness anyways.

I've only been playing maybe 1.5 months in total now.


I think that's a prudent approach. Taking on the role of GL is a sometimes amazing, sometimes thankless, always non-stop commitment. You're new enough to the game that you might not know quite yet where you want to end up, and it's worth taking your time to explore that before making a decision about joining or starting a guild.

That said, I wouldn't count it out if you feel strongly about it. MOMiT formed when we were still leveling through Lakeshire. Our charter signers were a group of local friends, and all but one of us had been playing for less than two months. That one, though, had been part of the (vanilla) end-game scene for almost a year at that point.

We gathered one morning at a local brunch place and basically said, "See that big dragon that people are killing? That's where we want to be. Help us figure out how to get there." Our policies have grown and changed as the needs of the guild have changed, but that core vision has remained steady. So if you know where you want to end up, you can find ways to get started on that road sooner rather than later. :)
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90 Night Elf Druid
5980
Most GM's are really followers. Followers of an ideal set forth for them by their betters..who got it from someone else.


A lot of these guys end up being what I call cargo cult GMs - they copy practices from other guilds without thinking about whether those practices are worthwhile or make sense for their guild. For example, at the start of BC a lot of 'starting Kara' GMs would ban Beastmastery spec hunters and laugh at the idea of druid tanks even though BM was the best hunter spec by far and druids were overpowered at the time. People in a casual guild with little progression try to set the kind of trial period conditions that a high intensity, high progression guild can insist on. People in a mass-invite guild try to run things like a tight-knit guild.
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90 Night Elf Priest
5045
I don't think someone who hasn't even capped a character yet has any right to form a raiding guild. I may be decently versed in theory crafting, raid mechanics, and team work-- but I haven't done it. Not with any sort of seriousness anyways.

I've only been playing maybe 1.5 months in total now.


I think that's a prudent approach. Taking on the role of GL is a sometimes amazing, sometimes thankless, always non-stop commitment. You're new enough to the game that you might not know quite yet where you want to end up, and it's worth taking your time to explore that before making a decision about joining or starting a guild.

That said, I wouldn't count it out if you feel strongly about it. MOMiT formed when we were still leveling through Lakeshire. Our charter signers were a group of local friends, and all but one of us had been playing for less than two months. That one, though, had been part of the (vanilla) end-game scene for almost a year at that point.

We gathered one morning at a local brunch place and basically said, "See that big dragon that people are killing? That's where we want to be. Help us figure out how to get there." Our policies have grown and changed as the needs of the guild have changed, but that core vision has remained steady. So if you know where you want to end up, you can find ways to get started on that road sooner rather than later. :)


That is incredibly excellent advice. Perhaps in time I will start a guild. I would really like to in the future. I'm glad your guild is seemingly fullfilling it's original purpose.
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90 Tauren Warrior
9435
02/21/2013 07:19 AMPosted by Karamoone
A lot of these guys end up being what I call cargo cult GMs - they copy practices from other guilds without thinking about whether those practices are worthwhile or make sense for their guild. For example, at the start of BC a lot of 'starting Kara' GMs would ban Beastmastery spec hunters and laugh at the idea of druid tanks even though BM was the best hunter spec by far and druids were overpowered at the time. People in a casual guild with little progression try to set the kind of trial period conditions that a high intensity, high progression guild can insist on. People in a mass-invite guild try to run things like a tight-knit guild.


That can be summed up in a single sentence: People trying to 'fake it till you make it' with no real idea why people do the things they're trying to fake.
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4 Undead Mage
0

That's people in general I think. The amount of difficulty people have thinking for themselves scares me, and this board is certainly no exception to that.


The truth can be a painful thing which is why most people only go so far and then lapse back into fluff and horsecrap.

People are literally too terrified to think for themselves. So they run to the system and its sys admins to be told how to think and they believe that if they conform they will be protected and spared.

02/21/2013 03:53 AMPosted by Eliil
Well in all seriousness, the reason most people don't seem to think for themselves, is that when they express an opinion that goes against the status-quo they get flamed. So many people decide to remain silent.


Sure, some people dont want to go on record because they think that by remaining passive observers, without opining on any controversy, they will preserve their dignity.

Nobody's bulletproof and anyone who steps up is going to take a few hits. It comes with the territory. One needs a thick skin to play this game. Still, if you got some good info you want to get out into the circuit youre going to have to endure some stuff, theres no way around it.
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90 Undead Warrior
14210
usually I'm all business, no personality. people want personality. also, way too much effort, considering that I only play to do 25m raiding
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90 Draenei Death Knight
4550
Nothing wrong with that.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7805
02/18/2013 10:34 AMPosted by Xavek
So what I'm asking is, for what reasons are you not a GM?


I was the GM of the current guild im in, created it and leveled it to level 25 with friends. Was a lot of fun but then, after like 6 months, it grew up to around 400 members (250+ account) and I realized how much decicated you had to be, because members are counting on you and wants to follow you threw out scheduled events. With 2 low aged kids at home, I just felt I wasnt there enough for them and pass the Guild lead to a good friend I have, that help me co-found the guild from the start.

Been a year now and she brought the guild to a next level. Best decision I ever made! The guild is like a big family now :-)
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90 Night Elf Hunter
8990
I was supposed to be the leader of my guild, and I even have the letters from the previous GM to prove it, but that did not happen. He promoted someone else who shall remain nameless. Never quite got over that. Not sure if the old GM was in such a fit to leave that he didn't bother scrolling all the way to my name (I suspect that to be the case) or what, but no matter the reason for this, that is why I am not currently the GM.
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20 Tauren Warrior
100
I don't want to GM.

Why? I don't want to manage the confusion of others i will never meet in my personal Life. This is a video game meant to have fun with. Some people take things easily or way way way out of hand. I don't want a second job on a game I don't get paid for doing. This also doesn't Provide benefit to my life nor career.

Ill be the behind the scenes guy on playing on something I enjoy. People who put their personal life issues on others in a game or someone you never have meet bugs me. If the wow system had a tagging feature on what each person did and on their flaws to help other guild makers/runners out, I might do it. I have seen many times nice kids or adults get treated like junk on this game for no apparent reason.

I don't own or work at Blizzard, but I did I would block out alot of people.
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20 Tauren Warrior
100
With blizzard making different realms what about blizzard covering all the guilds? Since some GMs take things personal, some don't and alot of the mindless activity will be straightened?
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Not everyone can be a guild leader, well not everyone can be a GOOD guild leader. It takes many talents and traits to lead people. I don't have them, so I would rather help out in other ways.

Many people backs out after understanding what it took to make a good guild and lead them actively, with no real benefit in return.

However, I don't view GMs being responsibilities, position of power nor people with ideals, I believe every GM is a slave to the guild, they crave slavery, simple as that. :D
Edited by Middletroll on 3/19/2013 8:47 AM PDT
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90 Human Priest
12320
Not everyone can be a guild leader, well not everyone can be a GOOD guild leader. It takes many talents and traits to lead people. I don't have them, so I would rather help out in other ways.

Many people backs out after understanding what it took to make a good guild and lead them actively, with no real benefit in return.

However, I don't view GMs being responsibilities, position of power nor people with ideals, I believe every GM is a slave to the guild, they crave slavery, simple as that. :D


Yes guild mastery/leadership is slavery.
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90 Draenei Priest
17540
03/19/2013 08:45 AMPosted by Middletroll
Many people backs out after understanding what it took to make a good guild and lead them actively, with no real benefit in return.


My guild's been around for 6 years, and I have been GM for 5. Trust me when I say this, if there were no real benefit to being a guild leader, I'd have quit a long time ago.

Yes, it's a lot of work. But it's extremely rewarding to see your efforts pay off. It's rewarding to watch the dreams you (as a guild leader) have for your guild come true. And it's rewarding to play with people who share your goals.

I believe every GM is a slave to the guild


The good GMs are, but only because we put ourselves in those positions. But it's not really slavery because good GMs have a vision and goals for their guild, they recruit people who share those goals, and they work with their members to achieve those goals. So yeah, in a way, a GM is a slave to their guild, but it's a position they choose to be in. Guild leadership is a responsibility, and unless you're prepared for it and really understand what it takes, you shouldn't lead a guild. It's not all sunshine and roses. But it definitely has its benefits.
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90 Undead Warrior
8675
Don't think of this as an attack, I'm just wondering why people aren't GM's, and what they feel their reasons are. Everyone's heard stories of those 'great' GM's and the bad apples that grow near them to steal their sunshine, but no one tells the stories of those people who could be a GM, but aren't.

For instance, I could be a GM. I have experience, I have leadership abilities, a caring heart. When someone throws me in a fire long enough to melt the ice encasing it. I farm ores, enchanting materials, gems, and herbs. And I donate what I can to the guild, when I can.

As for the reason why I can't be a GM. I excell at being 'second best'. I mean that. I'm the type of person that takes 'right hand man' to an extreme, I'm almost always in the right spot to catch anything a raid tank misses. I'm always ready to 'catch' rogue mobs that head for a healer, and when I have a paladin, dropping HoP/HoS (Hand of protection, for those that don't know, prevents any physical attack to, or from, the player for the length of the spell. Hand of salvation, removes any and all threat, for the length of the spell.) on a hunter pet whose master simply can't understand growl is bad in a dungeon/raid situation. Granted, in certain raid situations, it's essential to have a hunter who knows how to pet tank, and has a healer that can target their pet if the need ever arises. Gods forbid.

Because I'm so wired into being 'second best' I need the lifeline of control above to do my best. Put me in the GM seat, and things start heading south. Maybe not fast, maybe not noticeably. But it'll happen with time. Maybe a harsh word to a misperceived verbal bite, or forgetting a raid night due to family concerns, or possibly forgetting to mention it to the guild. But eventually, things slip.

So I'm quite happy being 'second best' to someone who knows and trusts me, but I'll never be a GM. I lack the ambition. Actually that's probably the first thing I should have said. I lack the ambition to be a GM and hold onto the reigns of power.

So what I'm asking is, for what reasons are you not a GM?


I have a leadership position IRL. I've found I have a knack for convincing people to follow me when I have to and I use that skill constantly in raids and even in my RP. But the three times I tried it as a GM or officer it didn't go so well.

Some people just don't like taking orders from others, no matter what those orders are. And frankly, the very worse you can do to an unruly guild member is kick them, but that can hurt you just as much as it hurts them, especially if they were a popular guild member. So I'm more than happy to let other people shoulder that headache and use my talents where it earns me a paycheck.

I play the game for fun, not for more work :-/
Edited by Malles on 3/19/2013 8:57 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Warrior
9435
The good GMs are, but only because we put ourselves in those positions. But it's not really slavery because good GMs have a vision and goals for their guild, they recruit people who share those goals, and they work with their members to achieve those goals. So yeah, in a way, a GM is a slave to their guild, but it's a position they choose to be in. Guild leadership is a responsibility, and unless you're prepared for it and really understand what it takes, you shouldn't lead a guild. It's not all sunshine and roses. But it definitely has its benefits.


That's like telling people you're legally a slave since you have legal obligations towards your children. It's a misuse of the word, and does not really communicate what you're trying to communicate.
Edited by Rvalue on 3/20/2013 12:07 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
6075
I'm not a GM because I eschew responsibility.

I have been in a lot of guilds with a lot of different guild leaders. Sadly, many of them were more interested in having a modicum of control and authority, rather than actually leading people anywhere.

I know that I'm more than capable of being a guild leader. I'm patient, professional, compassionate, and can be easy to talk to. I'm rather direct, and I tend to see all sides of an issue, regardless of my personal opinions.

This may be an unpopular thing to say, but a portion of the WoW community has a very undesirable sense of entitlement, coupled with selfishness and impatience. A handful of people that I've encountered "Want their gear and they want it NOW!". I don't have much tolerance for that, and that wouldn't be the sort of guild I would want to run. I also think that starting/maintaining a guild is a long-term investment, and some players (with that impatience I was talking about) most likely wouldn't wait around while the guild's officers met, talked with, and interviewed potential recruits.

I would encounter more stress than fun as a guild leader.
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90 Draenei Priest
17540
That's like telling people you're legally a slave since you have legal obligations towards your children. It's a misuse of the word, and does not really communicate what you're trying to communicate.


No, not really because I understand his use of the word "slave." Once you become a guild leader, and if you wish to actually be a good guild leader, then your focus shifts from your personal goals to your guild's goals. In that regard, your personal game goals get put on the back burner so to better focus on the guild's goals. Sure, "slave" isn't the right word, but I understand what he means by it.
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