Massive Tank Disparity

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90 Night Elf Warrior
12520
Can someone please explain something to me.

How is it even close to balanced to have tank classes that can heal for 40+ k per second. They arent taking 40k more dps per second, so it just plain trivializes bosses for raids that have DK/paladin, and monk tanks. Not to mention dks specifically have 1 button that gives them massive heals, and their absorbs and it doesnt matter if it misses. warriors have to choose to either take 33% or 66% reduced dmg on melee or a flat absorb that amounts to no where near 40k HPS.

I play a warrior tank about as well as I can and yet still DK's spam death strike and win..

Warriors might be close to dk's if their shield block and shield barrier were combined.

oh and to boot dks are getting a healing buff, and shield barrier is getting a nerf.

why blizz?
90 Pandaren Monk
6860
Because that is their main source of mitigation: self-heals and absorbs to deal with spiky damage. As a warrior, your tools are preventing yourself from taking too much damage with redux (very minimal in DKs), where a DK takes the spiky damage and uses it to their advantage with self-heals and absorbs.
90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
Read the FAQ.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7924333197

I'll summarize the important part: Warriors mitigate hits, Death Knights heal them. A Warrior takes far less damage than a Death Knight, but doesn't have the self-healing because they're balanced without it.

That 60k effective HPS that a Death Knight is doing? It's about equal to the damage you're preventing with your much more powerful passive reduction and percentage reduction.

For every 100k damage a Death Knight takes, a Warrior will take 86k before ANY active mitigation is considered. That means in order to be on par with a Warrior, a Death Knight needs to heal back 15% of the damage she takes.
90 Pandaren Warrior
15860
02/18/2013 10:50 PMPosted by Socc
I play a warrior tank about as well as I can and yet still DK's spam death strike and win..


Your best isn't good enough in that case. Warriors are in a great spot
90 Night Elf Warrior
12520
a DK tank 30 ilvls lower than me is easier to heal, sorry that doesnt make sense. thats with 100% uptime on Shield Block, or as much uptime on barrier as possible which is pretty low. and cycling cooldowns when Quang-xi is actively attacking. Honestly ask any healer what is easier to heal, they will all say that DKs are easier.

oh and I never once get hit doing the dance.
Edited by Socc on 2/18/2013 11:12 PM PST
1 Tauren Shaman
0
Mitigating damage well isn't just about spamming Shield Block or Barrier, and not playing your Warrior to its fullest is why you have that impression.

We do pretty well on Will.
90 Tauren Paladin
11340
100% uptime on shield block on will would imply you're making things up to look good or wasting shield blocks during the dance.

Perhaps the dk is chaining his cds on will like he's supposed to and you're not?
90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
02/18/2013 11:11 PMPosted by Socc
a DK tank 30 ilvls lower than me is easier to heal, sorry that doesnt make sense

It makes perfect sense: You're doing it wrong.

I'm sorry, but the math really doesn't lie. The tanks are balanced, Warriors are - by all expert accounts - more powerful and flexible than they have been since vanilla. The problem is not warriors, the problem is not death knights, the problem, quite frankly, is you.

If, instead of bashing the class, you want to provide examples, logs, and details about the problems you're having, we'd be more than happy to help. It's a large part of why we're here, after all. If you insist on claiming that warriors are underpowered, then you will be mocked and ignored by people who are far better at this than you are.

02/18/2013 11:11 PMPosted by Socc
Honestly ask any healer what is easier to heal, they will all say that DKs are easier.

No, they won't.

They'll say that whichever tank is better is easier. Outside some very specific cases - Druids on Heroic Stone Guard, for example - there aren't any fights where one class has a huge disadvantage or advantage.
100 Blood Elf Priest
14735
a DK tank 30 ilvls lower than me is easier to heal, sorry that doesnt make sense. thats with 100% uptime on Shield Block, or as much uptime on barrier as possible which is pretty low. and cycling cooldowns when Quang-xi is actively attacking.


A level 60 DK would be better than you on Qin-Xi? You need to step up your game.
Edited by Nerfheals on 2/18/2013 11:23 PM PST
90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
A level 60 DK would be better than you on Qin-Xi? You need to step up your game.

To his credit, he said ilevels, not levels.

Although... can you still enter modern raids below level cap? I'm pretty sure that with cooldowns a DK can become literally unhittable in the 409-ilevel 80 gear.
100 Blood Elf Priest
14735
02/18/2013 11:24 PMPosted by Krinu
To his credit, he said ilevels, not levels.


Hrm. I might need sleep, then. Or caffeine. But probably sleep, at this point. The caffeine cycle can begin again tomorrow.

02/18/2013 11:24 PMPosted by Krinu
Although... can you still enter modern raids below level cap? I'm pretty sure that with cooldowns a DK can become literally unhittable in the 409-ilevel 80 gear.


Yeah, there was that 80 paladin awhile back that solod Elegon.
90 Night Elf Warrior
12520
100% uptime on shield block on will would imply you're making things up to look good or wasting shield blocks during the dance.

Perhaps the dk is chaining his cds on will like he's supposed to and you're not?


Did you fail basic reading comprehension? I said I had 100% shield block when he was actively attacking me. no reason to do anything while I am taking only gas dmg.... also I never use a cooldown when the dance is going. I cycle my cooldowns only during active attacks.

I know this class, I know the fight, I know when to use cooldowns. you can attack me if you want, but I will tell you DKs are far easier to heal than warriors, especially on this specific fight.
Edited by Socc on 2/18/2013 11:37 PM PST
90 Night Elf Warrior
12520
Mitigating damage well isn't just about spamming Shield Block or Barrier, and not playing your Warrior to its fullest is why you have that impression.

We do pretty well on Will.


oh your level on does well one Heroic will, sure thing chum
Edited by Socc on 2/18/2013 11:37 PM PST
1 Tauren Shaman
0
Mitigating damage well isn't just about spamming Shield Block or Barrier, and not playing your Warrior to its fullest is why you have that impression.

We do pretty well on Will.
oh your level on does well one Heroic will, sure thing chum
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/thrall/dewberry/advanced
100 Dwarf Death Knight
14235
a DK tank 30 ilvls lower than me is easier to heal, sorry that doesnt make sense. thats with 100% uptime on Shield Block, or as much uptime on barrier as possible which is pretty low. and cycling cooldowns when Quang-xi is actively attacking. Honestly ask any healer what is easier to heal, they will all say that DKs are easier.

oh and I never once get hit doing the dance.


Give us logs showing this disparity and we'll believe you. But as a general rule: if a DK is easier to heal than you on Will, you're doing something wrong. Low armor and moderate avoidance do not make us healer friendly during the melee portions of the fight.
90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
Let's see... he's tried to armory troll some of the best tanks in the game, he's made baseless claims about tank balance, he's demonstrated a remarkable lack of understanding for the class mechanics he's complaining about...

Let me take a guess: You wiped a pile, your healers said that they want a tank like your DK co-tank because you're taking too much damage, and rather than admit that you're screwing up, you want us to validate your incompetence by telling you that it's a tank balance problem instead of a player skill problem.

Yeah. Get out of here.
Edited by Krinu on 2/18/2013 11:46 PM PST
100 Dwarf Death Knight
14235
Now now, don't be too harsh, he's from Maly. We're all terrible here.
90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
My tolerance for people that want me to justify their incompetence ran out years ago. If he wants help fixing what he's doing wrong, I'll happily give it. I will not make excuses for his ineptitude.
90 Night Elf Warrior
12520
Let's see... he's tried to armory troll some of the best tanks in the game, he's made baseless claims about tank balance, he's demonstrated a remarkable lack of understanding for the class mechanics he's complaining about...

Let me take a guess: You wiped a pile, your healers said that they want a tank like your DK co-tank because you're taking too much damage, and rather than admit that you're screwing up, you want us to validate your incompetence by telling you that it's a tank balance problem instead of a player skill problem.

Yeah. Get out of here.


Nope, we have 2 warrior tanks. Both of us know how to play our class. but my co tank did bring in his alt DK, who was easier to heal. We were both taking similar damage on our warriors. All of you who have killed heroic will have 1 of your 2 tanks doing 30-40k hps. I can assure you that those tanks arent taking 30-40k DPS more than a warrior. Its a big disparity, but I am done talking to you all. I can tell you, you are all wrong. Im not saying warriors are bad tanks. I am saying that there IS a disparity despite what you all want to believe.
90 Human Paladin
12965
You'll achieve far better results soliciting advice from the many Warrior tanks who have already cleared Heroic Will (often in worse gear than yours) than you will overstating the advantage another tank class might have and hoping Blizzard buffs your class in a timely manner.
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