Massive Tank Disparity

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90 Pandaren Monk
6860
Agreed. If the group's raid leader (I assume) hadn't posted, I would've thought this to be a troll topic.

02/19/2013 10:19 AMPosted by Warhavoc
To avoid monk-envy, I like to forget they exist.

That hurts.. :(
100 Blood Elf Paladin
13465
Agreed. If the group's raid leader (I assume) hadn't posted, I would've thought this to be a troll topic.

To avoid monk-envy, I like to forget they exist.

That hurts.. :(


Well, that *was* a bit rude and totally fails to take into account the entirety of the Monk class. Every class has its pros and cons, and a strength in one area is often compensated for by a weakness in another. So, in the interest of tank camaraderie, let me rephrase that comment in a way that's hopefully more sensitive and has a more holistic view of tanking overall:

Keg Smash is a poopy head.
90 Pandaren Monk
10280
02/19/2013 11:00 AMPosted by Wrathblood
Keg Smash is a poopy head.


NO beer for you...come back, ONE YEAR!
Keg Smash so cheap - it's like a multi-taunt baked into an attack. Makes me a sad Pala. :(
90 Pandaren Monk
6860
I do admit, threat generated through keg smash is just silly. I feel like I have to try harder when I tank on my paladin or DK just to retain pull and initial threat. However, I also don't feel like I have to work as hard to mitigate, and both scale well with Vengeance; once I get threat, I keep it. Pros and cons, I guess.

Also, Wrathblood, ur a poopy head
Edited by Fistlobster on 2/19/2013 11:31 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Warrior
0
I feel embarrassed reading the first page.
90 Tauren Druid
0
Ok, I am going to take a stab at helping you guys out since you seem generally interested in advice. Bear in mind, I have not played this expansion so take what I say with a grain of salt.

That being said, I have familiarized myself with the encounter and taken a look at about 6-10 of your failede attempts.

The basic issue is that the raid as a whole is taking damage that is avoidable. Emporer's rage is reaching people and beating them up. Sometimes it reaches your tanks and leads directly to tank death; mostly it leads to indirect death do to the increased strain on the healers.

Secondly, for Socc... you should have a look at the logs. You are being hit by things that are avoidable. Devastating arcs, energizing smash, emporers rage, Stomp are all hitting you. Some are your fault, some are your raids fault; nevertheless you can't ignore the evidence.

Thirdly, Socc does a decent job of chaining cooldowns on about 50% of the the attempts. The ones where he seems to be doing best... he has less incoming heals and things like the gas are keeping him in danger of death. Again this is likely an overal raid problem due to avoidable damage.

It also explains the (false) idea that the dk is better. The self healing in a situation where people are dieing to avoidable hits and the healers don't have time to heal the tanks appears way easier to manage. Those are my 2 cents. Hopefully they help Cheers
100 Blood Elf Paladin
13465
I do admit, threat generated through keg smash is just silly. I feel like I have to try harder when I tank on my paladin or DK just to retain pull and initial threat. However, I also don't feel like I have to work as hard to mitigate, and both scale well with Vengeance; once I get threat, I keep it. Pros and cons, I guess.

Also, Wrathblood, ur a poopy head


No, U!
100 Human Paladin
18040
Hey Socc!

You're better than the "other warrior tank" anyway. You can tell him I said so too ;)
Edited by Lesaberisa on 2/19/2013 4:42 PM PST
100 Night Elf Druid
18790
If everyone had the exact same style of tanking, then you may as well get rid of classes. If there's no flavor, there's no point.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
3810
Only thing that gives me sadface is monks threat is off the scale. I just want that threat, like tanking with a monk partner, we both run into the group do our aoe schtik and he gets all the mobs...I am jelly
90 Pandaren Monk
10280
02/20/2013 09:09 AMPosted by Tivana
Only thing that gives me sadface is monks threat is off the scale. I just want that threat, like tanking with a monk partner, we both run into the group do our aoe schtik and he gets all the mobs...I am jelly


Sorry, couldn't hear you, my keg smash was drowning everything out.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
8295
Yay, another thread of a mad tank jealous and butt hurt cuz other tanks have a different skillset that involves more healing then them...

Hate us or join us. I care not which you do. If you wanted amazing healing as a tank maybe you shouldn't have rolled a warrior.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
3810
02/20/2013 09:30 AMPosted by Chuin
Sorry, couldn't hear you, my keg smash was drowning everything out.


That just hurts me right in the feelers man.

02/20/2013 10:52 AMPosted by Protroàst
Hate us or join us. I care not which you do. If you wanted amazing healing as a tank maybe you shouldn't have rolled a warrior.


Pfft 2nd wind and solo a few heroic 5man bosses...actually had a war when I was on my rdruid tell me heals go dps we dont need a healer and I want to run this fast..he did too
Edited by Tivana on 2/20/2013 11:11 AM PST
90 Tauren Warrior
9435
02/19/2013 12:31 AMPosted by Krinu
Ah, yes, "experience" - that ineffable quality that somehow makes math not be math. Truly, it is astounding.


That's just stupid, and we've had this conversation before. Theory and practice are the same in theory, but not in practice. He has every right to question the validity of a claim made by someone who has not cleared heroic.

I had a response prepared, but it turns out someone else has explained why the math isn't a great determining factor (emphasis mine)

Ok, I am going to take a stab at helping you guys out since you seem generally interested in advice. Bear in mind, I have not played this expansion so take what I say with a grain of salt.

That being said, I have familiarized myself with the encounter and taken a look at about 6-10 of your failede attempts.

The basic issue is that the raid as a whole is taking damage that is avoidable. Emporer's rage is reaching people and beating them up. Sometimes it reaches your tanks and leads directly to tank death; mostly it leads to indirect death do to the increased strain on the healers.

Secondly, for Socc... you should have a look at the logs. You are being hit by things that are avoidable. Devastating arcs, energizing smash, emporers rage, Stomp are all hitting you. Some are your fault, some are your raids fault; nevertheless you can't ignore the evidence.

Thirdly, Socc does a decent job of chaining cooldowns on about 50% of the the attempts. The ones where he seems to be doing best... he has less incoming heals and things like the gas are keeping him in danger of death. Again this is likely an overal raid problem due to avoidable damage.

It also explains the (false) idea that the dk is better. The self healing in a situation where people are dieing to avoidable hits and the healers don't have time to heal the tanks appears way easier to manage. Those are my 2 cents. Hopefully they help Cheers


Theory and practice...
90 Gnome Rogue
7420
Same reason why Blizzard nerf Deathstrike in PVP they had to nerf Bloodshield it very much absorbs damage most of the time.
90 Pandaren Warrior
15860
Are you trying to imply that warriors aren't on par in practice Rvalue?

Or are you just playing semantics?
100 Night Elf Warrior
7060
I thought we were supposed to use shield barrier more than block.
90 Tauren Warrior
9435
Are you trying to imply that warriors aren't on par in practice Rvalue?

Or are you just playing semantics?


Of course not, but just because a tank is 'on par' on paper doesn't mean they're on par in practice. Krinu's reasoning is flawed, despite the conclusion being correct.

My co-tank is also a DK and between us, I die a lot less on will, and I'm the one that's easier to heal. OTOH, I have better gear coupled with more experience, so my anecdotal evidence is directly in contrast with the OP's.

Cricketz offered a much better defense than Krinu did.
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