Melee vs Range issues in RBG's

90 Human Paladin
6815
Honestly, rogues are still good in RBGs thanks to smoke bomb.

DKs are good because of grip set ups.

Warriors are good because they can also FC effectively and shockwave.

The other melee don't really have much going for them, and even if they did their biggest problem is "Why bring a feral/ret/enh/WW when we can bring their healer counterparts?"

I don't honestly believe that melee are in the best position, but at least 4 of these melee specs have healer variants that are wanted much more over the DPS, so in order to make them more valuable in RBGs they need specialization specific abilities that makes them wanted.
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02/20/2013 07:36 AMPosted by Bojana
that's why they made ranged rogues :D (hate it)


Rogue can still equip a bow or gun


Can this guy get banned already
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90 Undead Warrior
14920
02/20/2013 11:14 PMPosted by Chiffley


Rogue can still equip a bow or gun


Can this guy get banned already


Chiffley, I feed on your TEARS!!!! Give me more
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100 Orc Warrior
17260
The best way to illustrate the problems with melee is to speak in a language Blizzard actually understands: raiding.

The best example is heroic will of the emperor. Without going into all the details... this fight is extraordinarily melee unfriendly. Everything about this fight just makes melee cringe (here's one: since the boss is doing his devastating combo for 90% of the encounter, even getting to the boss as a melee is near impossible... plus if you are on the boss you are dancing for 90% of the encounter). There is nothing a melee can do that ranged can't do better.

How did Blizzard fix the issue?

Aside from nerfing ring of frost, they basically buffed all melee by 50% via a passive buff specific to the encounter. Yes, you do 50% more damage as melee simply for being melee. That was how big an incentive Blizzard had to make to allow melee a chance at the encounter; otherwise any decent raid guild would bench their melee and bring in more ranged.

Sound familiar? That's exactly what RBGs are like.

Either punish ranged or buff melee specifically in RBG contexts. 50% more damage would work.
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29 Worgen Priest
8435
lol reminds me of history.

originally a mixture of ranged/melee, ranged got guns. melee start to get fazed out. Ranged get even better guns, melee go away.

The ranged get even better guns= instant CC,cast while moved, instant spells everywhere,snares/roots everywhere.
Edited by Phokas on 2/22/2013 3:09 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
7490
lol reminds me of history.

originally a mixture of ranged/melee, ranged got guns. melee start to get fazed out. Ranged get even better guns, melee go away.

The ranged get even better guns= instant CC,cast while moved, instant spells everywhere,snares/roots everywhere.


so mop warrior = jedi?
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29 Worgen Priest
8435
lol reminds me of history.

originally a mixture of ranged/melee, ranged got guns. melee start to get fazed out. Ranged get even better guns, melee go away.

The ranged get even better guns= instant CC,cast while moved, instant spells everywhere,snares/roots everywhere.


so mop warrior = jedi?


yeah pretty much

edit:and rogues are M1 Abrams tanks
Edited by Phokas on 2/22/2013 3:23 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
7490


so mop warrior = jedi?


yeah pretty much

edit:and rogues are M1 Abrams tanks


why not just stealth fighter : /

and now whenever a warrior charges me all iam gonna here in my head is a darth vader voice saying "i have you now"
Edited by Fiddef on 2/22/2013 3:24 PM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
3560
The best way to illustrate the problems with melee is to speak in a language Blizzard actually understands: raiding.

The best example is heroic will of the emperor. Without going into all the details... this fight is extraordinarily melee unfriendly. Everything about this fight just makes melee cringe (here's one: since the boss is doing his devastating combo for 90% of the encounter, even getting to the boss as a melee is near impossible... plus if you are on the boss you are dancing for 90% of the encounter). There is nothing a melee can do that ranged can't do better.

How did Blizzard fix the issue?

Aside from nerfing ring of frost, they basically buffed all melee by 50% via a passive buff specific to the encounter. Yes, you do 50% more damage as melee simply for being melee. That was how big an incentive Blizzard had to make to allow melee a chance at the encounter; otherwise any decent raid guild would bench their melee and bring in more ranged.

Sound familiar? That's exactly what RBGs are like.

Either punish ranged or buff melee specifically in RBG contexts. 50% more damage would work.


This post hits the mark somewhat. I don't think you need to punish ranged at all, but it's simply that most melee classes, unless they bring something different like control (Rogues, even Warriors) or heavy spread damage (Death Knights), they can not keep up with the damage multi-DoTing/cleaving ranged DPS can do (Fire Mages, Warlocks, SPriests, Boomkins and even good Ele Shams to an extent.)

That being said, melee are also undervalued in RBGs simply because people won't try them. I play RBGs for fun usually when I'm playing and we try out a lot of comps. Melee-cleaves CAN work in high-level RBGs, and bringing 2-3 melee is actually fairly optimal now as they can train healers resulting in a huge advantage in teamfights.

http://i.imgur.com/JudSyFE.jpg

- 5 min ago
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29 Worgen Priest
8435
alright i'll fix it

Warriors=Jedi
Rogues=F-117
droods=F-35, multi purpose and powerful
Mages= A-10 that shoots nuclear warheads
Hpallies=Droidekas
Retpallies=this one is actually fairly tough,id say a hamster with a mini gatling gun that shoots gumballs
Monks=i honestly cant think of one for this
BM hunter=Predator drones, just hit one or two buttons then boom
Enhance/Ele=guinea pig, mean little bite to em but if you hit them at all they go flying then splat
Resto shaman=Lord Dondarrion from game of thrones, restos just dont seem to die
Spriest=AT-AT
Dpriest/hpriest= battle droids, i mean they can kinda do stuff but why use a battle droid when you can have a droideka
Warlocks=Sharks with freaking lasers on their head
Edited by Phokas on 2/22/2013 3:40 PM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
3560
02/22/2013 03:35 PMPosted by Phokas
Warlocks=Sharks with freaking lasers on their head


seems about right
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90 Draenei Shaman
9080
The way monks are in the next patch, i am sure we will see some rbg punchmonks. But if you are talking about melee in general, im sure you can run something stupid like. Frost DK UNH DK ROGUE MONK X X X X. Or just lead your own rbgs be the only melee.
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90 Orc Death Knight
7385
Ranged don't seem to be able to get the kills like melee can, though. A melee pain train is a scary thing as an FC.
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100 Orc Warrior
17260


This post hits the mark somewhat. I don't think you need to punish ranged at all, but it's simply that most melee classes, unless they bring something different like control (Rogues, even Warriors) or heavy spread damage (Death Knights), they can not keep up with the damage multi-DoTing/cleaving ranged DPS can do (Fire Mages, Warlocks, SPriests, Boomkins and even good Ele Shams to an extent.)

That being said, melee are also undervalued in RBGs simply because people won't try them. I play RBGs for fun usually when I'm playing and we try out a lot of comps. Melee-cleaves CAN work in high-level RBGs, and bringing 2-3 melee is actually fairly optimal now as they can train healers resulting in a huge advantage in teamfights.

http://i.imgur.com/JudSyFE.jpg

- 5 min ago


How do you make melee more desirable without 1) making melee better by throwing them ridiculous abilities like gorfiend's grasp etc. or 2) making ranged worse somehow.

The latter is probably better for the health of the game since it means peeling away some ludicrous random crap that classes have, while the first means more random annoying crap tacked onto even more classes.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6415
All they need to do is give melee more rbg focused utility tools (aoe freedom from windwalk is a good example) and they instantly become more desirable... so long as you're melee focused. I think people aren't willing to try melees to a large extent, there's almost this obscene stigma that casters are just so vastly superior.

Just a suggestion, but more group-oriented utility (ala rallying cry, devotion aura et al) amongst melee would make them vastly more desirable. It's a fine line though, I wouldn't say melee are as far behind as would commonly be believed.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
13230
One of the problems with the current PvP sysetm -which also translate over to Rated BG's- is what has made a lot of people upset with PvP in Mists so far: Crowd Control.

The main issue at hand isn't that melee are weak -coming from a warrior it should be easy to accept- it's that blizz has only really thought with one side of their brain so far.

Basically, ranged are better for RBG's not neccessarily because they can switch easy to other targets, but because they have much more CC then their melee counterparts.

It's a complex issue at the heart of it, but blizz believes that because ranged need to be at range to be safe, they need lots of CC to make sure they have the range and out of harms way. Yet blizz fails to realize that they also give ranged more escapes and self-preservation tools then melee have gap-closers that even if a warrior or DK or pally uses what they have to get close, the range classes will always have a small bag full of tricks and cc's to get away.

If you recall back to when GC commented on the removal of Gag order from being usable on players, he said something along the lines of "If a ranged class can break away from a warrior, they should be rewarded with being able to cast a spell".

The problem is that with a number of instant cast abilities, cc etc, and the fact that ranged classes have many more tools to escape and stay away, and self-preservation abilites like absorbs, that there is either no peantly for getting caught by a melee (save for a rogue, though right now they aren't really formidable) of any kind now, yet if they do, they pop an absorb, maybe a root and just run away, spamming instant cast attacks.

So while the melee who were attacking a healer are now CC'd and unable to do their job, the healer or the FC escapes, the ranged can be rooted and still do their job with no degradation to their damage output.

Since Rated Battle Grounds are such a large portion of the gearing grind for PvP, blizz would do well to put in specific engines and returns for all forms of CC in rated BGs so that instead of ranged/casters being able to spam them constantly, they have to -atleast in rated BG matches- be used strategically.

This would turn it from the current syste of who has the most CC on their team is the winner, to the ones who use the best strategy are the winners.
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13 Troll Mage
5030
rbgs sux
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
9985
02/22/2013 03:20 PMPosted by Fiddef
so mop warrior = jedi?

Death Knights are Sith.

Now come closer so I can force cho- I mean, Asphyxiate you.
Edited by Draxonicar on 2/23/2013 10:30 AM PST
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