Horde on Dath'Remar is dying

90 Tauren Paladin
7830
As the GM of a Horde 25 man raiding guild on Dath'Remar (The Empire), we have been struggling with numbers since our Christmas break, as have quite a few 10 mans apparently. One of the major factors impacting the game play has been a declining Horde population, with several prominent 10 man guilds impacted by large groups of people realm transferring in a bid to find better game environments.

Unfortunately, The Empire is going to be a casualty of this same problem. We have struggled and fought hard to continue as a 25 man guild, but no matter how much we recruit or pug we either run into the problem where we are a couple of seats short of 25, or we end up taking undergeared or inexperienced pugs that effectively kill reasonable raid progression. Either one of these problems causes another set of problems in that our strongest players who want to raid have started to make the hard decision to realm transfer or faction change in a bid to get better 25 man progression. As a guild, we have now decided that we are better off leaving Dath'Remar and moving to a realm that has a stronger Horde population. Unfortunately, we run into logistical problems in that some guildies can't afford to transfer, or they can transfer one but are torn over leaving all their other toons with various professions required to sustain their game. Overall, the decision is a hard one because the realm is dying, but at the same time has dramatic consequences for my guildies. I have petitioned some 10 man guilds to take some people on, but overall I know of about 8 players who have indicated that they will quit WoW because they only want 25 man raiding and it has all got too hard to continue playing. I have spoken to Blizzard about this problem, seeking some sort of assistance with moving a large volume of toons, but I have been told that they can't assist us and that players will have to pay full price for every toon that they want to transfer. Myself, I think that this is contrary to the spirit of the game. We are moving, there is no if's and buts about this situation, but I would like to generate discussion on this problem as I believe that under these sorts of hard game situations Blizzard should allow bulk discounted moves across realms. If quality of service cannot be guaranteed on realms that are struggling, then the people responsible for the management of this service should be able to accommodate such predicaments and facilitate remedies that will not cause gamers distress or cause them to leave the game.

Comments would be fully appreciated on this topic.
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90 Troll Hunter
13410
Perhaps if Bliz would allow account- wide binding on all items- so people could farm / practice their profession on one server, then send to their main on another? Then only one toon would need to be xferred... It's not the ideal solution, but for those who can only afford to move one toon, this would allow them to continue support of their main.
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90 Pandaren Priest
5850
Economy would crash if that was allowed.

Its like lets farm a really low pop server and then sell all the mats on AH on a high paying server. Good suggestion but I think it would do more bad then good.

I for one have many toons on this server. Also I came from another server so to transfer them all back seems a waste and money better spent else where. I believe it also comes with good and bad. After all Dath is quite, they would be hoping more people come to dath then allowing high amount of population leave.

I see it two-sided.
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90 Tauren Paladin
7830
I can't see it being abused in that manner Cossie, as something like this would have to fall within the prior approval category. In circumstances that warrant bulk transfer for a lower fee an application could be made, the case presented and would only occur at a discounted price if Blizzard approved. For example, instead of paying $350 to transfer 10 level 90's to another realm, offer a bulk price of say $100 or $10 per toon under approved circumstances. Maybe a once in a lifetime game special, that way the system can't be abused and players have the benefit of choosing another realm to play on without being hamstrung. At least guildies in these sorts of circumstances can then roll their once of request and follow the team instead of being left behind. That is the hardest thing Cossie, leaving people behind.
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90 Tauren Paladin
7830
Hi Zeph, we tried various different merger options, but unfortunately the majority of people who play WoW these days would prefer to push 10's because the loot and achievements are the same. On Dath we have quite a few 10m guilds with anywhere from 5-8 raiders consistently spamming trade for pugs, but nobody wants to combine forces to make stronger raiding groups. I have initiated many topics in trade discussing this same topic, but the population on Dath just won't support a 25 man guild. With 5.2 on our doorsteps, we need to be in a realm that has population levels that will allow the type of raiding that we prefer. Many of us are old school and prefer 25's over 10's, but the key thing is that we already have people on the new realm waiting for us. I have no doubts about our success, however, the purpose of this thread is to promote the discussion of getting Blizzard to come to the party and assist players whose game experience has deteriorated with bulk transfers off realms that are stagnating. I would really love to be able to assist some of my guildies follow, they have been loyal and positive influences on our guild infrastructure, and I was truly stunned when Blizzard basically washed their hands of the problem when I explained that up to 8 guildies could quit WoW completely as a result of this situation. I would have thought Blizzard would have been interested in helping their customers, but it appears I was wrong.
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90 Undead Warrior
7455
I have often thought about this, and considering the availability of today's technology consider it a fair and reasonable idea, Oceanic servers have fallen behind in a race of progression within the 25 man, and even 10 man teams, now I'm not as hardcore as majority of those on here, but I have recently been raiding with Insignificant, and for a smaller guild, comparison to 'The Empire' it has become a task to get even a 10 man together...
Now as far as I am saying, Merging servers hasn't been a real hard task for Blizzard right? I mean they already have the basis down with Cross Server stuff.
In theory, I believe Blizzard needs to look to the population numbers within all oceanic servers, and consider a major merging of PVE servers, and PVP obviously separate merging.
My statement here might not make much of a difference... but I rather have 'A' community, than having none at all :(
Edited by Jawba on 2/18/2013 4:59 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Priest
5850
I actually like that Idea
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
16130
That is honestly a pretty good idea Jawba if only something like that could happen
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90 Human Rogue
15810
Old Blizzard would have looked at the qol issues and merged servers ages ago.
New Blizzard looks at the profit loss from payed server transfers and says no.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
8645
Yep its why I left after being on the server since 2007... miss some of the people but dont think I would ever go back ...
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100 Night Elf Druid
17245
Hi Bear,

I saw your advertising and issues in trade on Dath (I have Horde and Ally on Dath) and am aware of the severity of the decline on both sides of the fence on the server. I am sorry to hear that you had to move but it's good to know that, unlike so many other GM's, you took control of the situation and made a decision to try and fix the problem - even if it was not your doing.

I think this is indicative of a greater issue, especially with Oceanic servers (because there are fewer of them) which Blizzard continues to ignore or hope will be 'covered up' with CRZ and Dungeon Finders. The fact remains, Raiding, Trade/Economy and Guilds are all server bound. Unless these are released from the bounds of the servers, you cannot ignore population issues.

Here are the current population stats:

Name Alliance Horde A/H Ratio Total
Frostmourne 100,948 65,438 1.543 181,494 PvP
Barthilas 40,051 65,338 0.613 111,496 PvP
Aman'thul 70,186 29,580 2.373 105,692 PvE
Jubei'Thos 32,835 66,744 0.492 104,200 PvP
Khaz'goroth 57,518 40,577 1.418 103,114 PvE
Nagrand 51,374 35,509 1.447 91,746 PvE
Caelestrasz 49,778 33,271 1.496 86,783 PvE
Saurfang 46,114 32,319 1.427 84,432 PvE
Dath'Remar 50,970 26,134 1.950 80,496 PvE
Thaurissan 6,790 62,124 0.109 70,254 PvP
Dreadmaul 23,641 36,547 0.647 61,342 PvP
Gundrak 20,568 16,412 1.253 37,773 PvP

http://wow.realmpop.com/us.html

Now, just before Mists hit, Dath was down to 72k and Frosty had hit 200k+. People don't like queues, so you can see what happens. The fact is, the numbers are a mess. At some point, a population cap (permanent) should have been placed on Frosty and Barth (for those that don't know, Barth also got quite high in the pop). They *did* have a halt during Mists but they removed that. At the rate it's going, Gundrak will collapse (it's almost there - I have some alts on that on both sides), Thaurissan is unplayable as Alliance, etc etc.

Their excuses have been CRZ fixes in zone issues with seeing other people or that you can always find people to dungeon with because you have Dungeon Finder. But it can't make up for sitting in a Guild by yourself because there's no one on. Or your stuff can't sell on the AH because there's no economy. Or the economy is so out of balance it's too high. Or, in your case, you cannot get a raid team together, so you're left with limited options. In the end, their lack of movement is further driving the same problem - people are flocking to grossly overpopulated servers for content for which those servers were not designed (ie to Raid on a PvP server).

I have heard rumours that there could be a free transfer coming to Dath from goodness knows which servers. I hope that it's true. Personally I think they need to get 50k+ toons off of Frosty and they need to close Gundrak (they could even merge it with Dreadmaul and Thaurissan with the numbers on each side). Give them a free pass to Dath, Saurfang or Cael and they should be specific (free migration to Horde only).

I apologise for the rant but I am sick of people being a) asked to cough up money to resolve an underlying issue not of their making and b) the people who can resolve said underlying issue just sticking their heads in the sand thinking that what worked in 2004 is still going to be ok 10 years later.

Edit - A Guildy just made an excellent suggestion. Like so many other MMO's, you should be able to have limited free realm transfers (1 per 3 months, 6 months etc). If they truly want to make it about the game play, it would be something they'd offer.

*sigh* :(
Edited by Aislinge on 3/10/2013 6:01 AM PDT
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Somebody on Dath'Remar please shoot me a message about a BMAH item that I am very interested in, you will be rewarded if everything works out.
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100 Dwarf Shaman
16190
Dreadmaul (A) - Is pretty much the same, there has been a huge decrease of Alliance numbers since halfway through Cata. Most people I know have gone too better and brigher raiding on a higher pop server (Frostmourne). Dreadmaul is very much horde dominates. This was proven and still is proven via http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/us/dreadmaul First night of ToT raiding two alliance guilds took the stage being my own guild and another. Its hard too find a decent pug ( If one is needed ) And I know horde side is teaming with activity. They seriously need to look at merging two lower population servers together. Or at least offer us free transfers off too elsewhere ( I don't fancy paying too server change 11 Characters ) And as would a lot of others.
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91 Blood Elf Priest
7420
Frostmourne may have a high population, but the Alliance outnumber the horde by a very large ratio. The level 90 ratio is even worse. It's so hard to play horde here and I' feel like quitting.
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90 Tauren Priest
9645
Looking at different realm myself, I'm on Aman'thul atm, went to wowprogress to find a more horde dominated pve oceanic server, there isnt 1, everysingle pve oceanic realm is alliance heavy. This blows when it comes to world bosses and stuff,
I dont want to roll an alliance toon, I've been a horde man since warcraft 3, Maybe some1 with some good organisation skills could recruit from other realms to build a horde heavy server :)
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100 Night Elf Druid
17245
It's funny you should say that Friar and Typhi, we were killing Oondasta tonight and I was commenting that I would love to take more of my toons to Horde but they just never have enough on to get up the numbers for kills like that :(

It saddens me that so many servers (bar Thaurissan) are Alliance heavy. I would love to see some incentives to see switches across. Free faction changes for Guilds etc. I know mine would consider it.
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100 Human Warrior
15380
You know something is wrong when Khaz'goroth is the most balanced in terms of Alliance to Horde ratio...
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90 Tauren Paladin
13860
Lol. I go play SWtOR for a few months and come back and Horde is dead?

Oh well I like it quiet :)

Not going back to SWtOR again now they shut down the Aus server :(
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