Resto druids, raid design and efficiency:

It's not even about people wanting to top the meters.

In the current raiding environment, damage can be VERY spikey and things can go wrong easily. It's better to have everyone topped off immediately because if something goes wrong and they aren't they may well die.


I pretty much said that too, a mix of both really:

"People like topping meters so that is sadly not going to happen."

As well as:

"No one wants to potentially risk a player death by not healing up someone as fast as they possibly can. "

Druids got nerfed from Cata too heavily. WG is very inefficient for what it costs and it's cooldown. Rejuv s very expensive even after the change. LIfebloom ticks for nothing. Regrowth costs a ton.


The WG nerf definitely hurt but personally I think the reason for why it hurt so much at the time was the fact that other classes got AOE heals and buffs. That is usually how it goes, my guild at the time made me go feral and offtank for heroic spine (we killed it at 0% buff) because of the nerfs, would we have been able to kill the bosses with me as resto? Definitely, just not as highly ranked as we ended up doing them. I do not think WG is weak at all especially if you buff it with SotF. Rejuv come 5.2 is going to be so cheap for a long time (I think it's about 7.2k mana per) since you won't replace your 2 pc for quite some time, by the time you will chances are you'll have enough gear that it does not matter much anymore. While lifebloom may not tick for a whole lot by itself the fact that you have it on a tank about 100% of the time it does accumulate a lot of healing done, not to mention it's our tool for OOC procs. OOC takes care of regrowth's high mana cost, imo you shouldn't ever resort to spamming regrowth unless it is 100% unavoidable and even then I think it is a better idea to rely on and trust in your other healers for things not to turn terribly wrong.

It feels like we were balanced differently from other healers.


The problem I see with resto is pretty much the disparity in 10 and 25 man, we do absolutely fine in 10 man, worse than mediocre in 25 man (this applies to early progression for 5.0/5.1 only). You also have to weigh in pvp to balance a class. I can only imagine how tough it is to balance our class and not make us completely OP in either pvp or 10 mans.

@the rest of this thread

Really? I guess you missed me replying to one of the few constructive posters in this thread, botty.


*pats her shoulder* lol

I do think experience matters to an extent, experience is not everything though. If we were to go by just numbers we would never kill a fight. There is so much more to an encounter than just numbers. Can you tell how 24 other people are going to react exactly to x ability? Do they dodge left or right? Do you know anyone is going to hit the shield on Spirit Kings? You trust them they won't but mistakes happen. Before I started raiding heroic content I read about the encounters, watched videos and what not to see how different it would be but what it comes down to, you won't really ever know everything about a fight even IF you have killed it when the content was relevant. Human error and what not plays into all of it and changes some aspects of a fight slightly. Yes you know the mechanics in and about but you won't ever know how person no. 18 is going to react at all.

EDIT:

What I am trying to say is even if we were given absorbs and damage reductions and what not you won't ever really know when someone screws up something so unless you know X ability is going to happen the absorbs are not necessarily going to prevent a raid wipe. A lot of boss abilities are designed around causing a wipe if Y mechanic is being ignored or messed up. Blizzard does not design abilities that would cause a wipe if you absolutely do not bring a disc priest to your raid. The fights are all supposed to be doable with any healer comp you bring, just some comps are better than others, this really only matters to high end guilds as healer comp trivializes some aspects of an encounter.

In fact we did have 1 fight this tier we were absolutely wanted for and that is heroic Sha of Fear, Huddle in Terror in P2 affected exactly 5 people, guess what~ Resto druid's tranq is a smart heal generally healing exactly those 5 people making healing during P2 that much easier.
Edited by Botty on 2/18/2013 9:29 PM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
21050
It's not even about people wanting to top the meters.

In the current raiding environment, damage can be VERY spikey and things can go wrong easily. It's better to have everyone topped off immediately because if something goes wrong and they aren't they may well die.


I pretty much said that too, a mix of both really:

"People like topping meters so that is sadly not going to happen."

As well as:

"No one wants to potentially risk a player death by not healing up someone as fast as they possibly can. "

Druids got nerfed from Cata too heavily. WG is very inefficient for what it costs and it's cooldown. Rejuv s very expensive even after the change. LIfebloom ticks for nothing. Regrowth costs a ton.


The WG nerf definitely hurt but personally I think the reason for why it hurt so much at the time was the fact that other classes got AOE heals and buffs. That is usually how it goes, my guild at the time made me go feral and offtank for heroic spine (we killed it at 0% buff) because of the nerfs, would we have been able to kill the bosses with me as resto? Definitely, just not as highly ranked as we ended up doing them. I do not think WG is weak at all especially if you buff it with SotF. Rejuv come 5.2 is going to be so cheap for a long time (I think it's about 7.2k mana per) since you won't replace your 2 pc for quite some time, by the time you will chances are you'll have enough gear that it does not matter much anymore. While lifebloom may not tick for a whole lot by itself the fact that you have it on a tank about 100% of the time it does accumulate a lot of healing done, not to mention it's our tool for OOC procs. OOC takes care of regrowth's high mana cost, imo you shouldn't ever resort to spamming regrowth unless it is 100% unavoidable and even then I think it is a better idea to rely on and trust in your other healers for things not to turn terribly wrong.

It feels like we were balanced differently from other healers.


The problem I see with resto is pretty much the disparity in 10 and 25 man, we do absolutely fine in 10 man, worse than mediocre in 25 man (this applies to early progression for 5.0/5.1 only). You also have to weigh in pvp to balance a class. I can only imagine how tough it is to balance our class and not make us completely OP in either pvp or 10 mans.

@the resto of this thread

Really? I guess you missed me replying to one of the few constructive posters in this thread, botty.


*pats her shoulder* lol

I do think experience matters to an extent, experience is not everything though. If we were to go by just numbers we would never kill a fight. There is so much more to an encounter than just numbers. Can you tell how 24 other people are going to react exactly to x ability? Do they dodge left or right? Do you know anyone is going to hit the shield on Spirit Kings? You trust them they won't but mistakes happen. Before I started raiding heroic content I read about the encounters, watched videos and what not to see how different it would be but what it comes down to, you won't really ever know everything about a fight even IF you have killed it when the content was relevant. Human error and what not plays into all of it and changes some aspects of a fight slightly. Yes you know the mechanics in and about but you won't ever know how person no. 18 is going to react at all.


Honestly I think all that is wrong. Topping the meters is the only thing that matters when it comes to healing. If the tank dies while you are raid healing, why didn't they pop a cooldown? I killed H rag too a few weeks back and that doesnt mean youre better than me.
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Honestly I think all that is wrong. Topping the meters is the only thing that matters when it comes to healing. If the tank dies while you are raid healing, why didn't they pop a cooldown? I killed H rag too a few weeks back and that doesnt mean youre better than me.


Get outta here already if you've got nothing better to do than troll poor me.
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90 Troll Druid
11860
Let's come to an understanding in this thread.

1: Resto druids have predominantly have been raid healers.

2: The resto druid's tool-kit has for the last 'few' x-packs been sub-par in this respect and we've excepted band-aid fixes instead of real tool-kit fixes.

3: The main issue for resto druids has been the lack of -

Burst healing whether that be AOE or direct healing with AOE healing the priority.

As predominantly raid healers - the role we've been proud of holding, we expect that our AOE healing provide the appropriate healing and absorbs that other classes provide without concern. Could you imagine a holy Pally's harmony Illuminated Healing applied to Wild-growth Blizzard-Activision? Perhaps not but one is allowed to hope.

There is one real issue with resto druid healing that I know of. I might not have 16/16 H raid healing experience considering I only raid one day a week but enough to know that our heals are relegated to OH consistently through burst healing, snipes and absorbs.

I personally don't have 9 million + subscribers but do know that throwing some band-aid mushrooms into OH won't and can't fix the real issues with my class nor do I suspect that the majority of druid healers that take healing seriously will stand for this kind of 'fix' for very much longer.

Listen CG - We understand completely the complexities of trying to so-called balance multiple classes in this game. But what we won't accept is half-hearted attempts at 'balance'. We've had enough of that for far too long my friend. It's time to place my class at the forefront and consider real fixes for real issues. Let's deal with the inadequacies of our current tool-kit together.

It's not magic nor insurmountable. It's attainable together if you just listen to the right good hearted folks.
Edited by Moophious on 2/18/2013 9:30 PM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
21050

Honestly I think all that is wrong. Topping the meters is the only thing that matters when it comes to healing. If the tank dies while you are raid healing, why didn't they pop a cooldown? I killed H rag too a few weeks back and that doesnt mean youre better than me.


Get outta here already if you've got nothing better to do than troll poor me.


Bunnykisses tip of the day: "Bind Wild Growth and Rejuvenation to all buttons. This ensures you cannot make a mistake while healing as a druid" !
Edited by Bunnykisses on 2/18/2013 9:38 PM PST
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90 Draenei Priest
6645
02/18/2013 09:07 PMPosted by Botty
You also have to weigh in pvp to balance a class. I can only imagine how tough it is to balance our class and not make us completely OP in either pvp or 10 mans.


Well, resto druids are awful in PvP too :).
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90 Orc Shaman
HC
15750
02/18/2013 10:13 PMPosted by Eclipsé
You also have to weigh in pvp to balance a class. I can only imagine how tough it is to balance our class and not make us completely OP in either pvp or 10 mans.


Well, resto druids are awful in PvP too :).


Ummm, no they're not? Druids are very strong in PvP, although they may not be top it doesn't mean they're awful.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
02/18/2013 10:13 PMPosted by Eclipsé
You also have to weigh in pvp to balance a class. I can only imagine how tough it is to balance our class and not make us completely OP in either pvp or 10 mans.


Well, resto druids are awful in PvP too :).


>.>

What planet have you been living on for the last season? Resto Druids are amazing in PvP right now.
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90 Troll Druid
8990


5-7h of 12h in T11.
6/7h in T12.
8/8h in T13.

All of that was the current raid tier when it mattered. And this was in Cataclysm, the expansion I played the least far and away.



Let's see:

Cho'gall = 11/14/2011

Majordomo = 10/09/2011

Alyzrazor = 10/01/2011

Baleroc = 10/09/2011

Atramedes = 06/09/2011

Magmaw = 06/07/2011

Do you really believe you are so good and experienced?
Most of this kills, to not say all of them, were POST-NERF kills...
Seriously?
Edited by Sàtàn on 2/18/2013 10:49 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11780
02/18/2013 10:27 PMPosted by Tiriél


Well, resto druids are awful in PvP too :).


>.>

What planet have you been living on for the last season? Resto Druids are amazing in PvP right now.


Yeah ... druids are doing very well in PvP atm @_@
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90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
02/19/2013 12:09 AMPosted by Alphadruid
I'm 12/16h this tier. How many of those kills are post-nerf? None? Okay.

So, why do you 3heal Garalon? If you're as knowledgeable and experienced as you say, why are you unable to 2heal this with a disc priest?
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02/19/2013 12:50 AMPosted by Fleurs
I'm 12/16h this tier. How many of those kills are post-nerf? None? Okay.

So, why do you 3heal Garalon? If you're as knowledgeable and experienced as you say, why are you unable to 2heal this with a disc priest?


Really? Why not just stand above all of this nonsense going on and move on instead of fighting like 10 year olds. This does not apply to just you Fleurs but all of the posters involved so don't take this as me singling you out on this.
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90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
02/19/2013 01:01 AMPosted by Botty

So, why do you 3heal Garalon? If you're as knowledgeable and experienced as you say, why are you unable to 2heal this with a disc priest?


Really? Why not just stand above all of this nonsense going on and move on instead of fighting like 10 year olds. This does not apply to just you Fleurs but all of the posters involved so don't take this as me singling you out on this.

Idk if you've been lurking for a while or if you've only just begun to start posting, but since the beginning of the tier (somewhat after discs were buffed), Alphadruid has made it is his mission to preach to others that druids are in a terrible state. I am one of those that don't agree with the mentality and seriously dislike anyone that can throw around the word so easily, when we're nowhere near that level. I'm just sick of reading post after post by the guy trying to insist on something completely false, while using his progression as his trump card? Come on...
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Really? Why not just stand above all of this nonsense going on and move on instead of fighting like 10 year olds. This does not apply to just you Fleurs but all of the posters involved so don't take this as me singling you out on this.

Idk if you've been lurking for a while or if you've only just begun to start posting, but since the beginning of the tier (somewhat after discs were buffed), Alphadruid has made it is his mission to preach to others that druids are in a terrible state. I am one of those that don't agree with the mentality and seriously dislike anyone that can throw around the word so easily, when we're nowhere near that level. I'm just sick of reading post after post by the guy trying to insist on something completely false, while using his progression as his trump card? Come on...


I usually don't post much on the forums and only read every now and then as most of the time people just post about the same issue over and over again. While I understand you may be frustrated with Alphadruid I cannot really say anything about what has been going on but if what you are saying is true, all I can say is stop feeding the troll. I found this thread to be a pretty good one when I started reading it but it does always make me sad when I see a good thread getting derailed because some people just like bickering non stop. It really makes it hard for people to follow the thread. I posted on page 3 before I went to sleep, eventually got back up to see the thread "explode" to page 7 and out of those 4 new pages about 80% was childish fighting back and forth with nothing contributing to the issue at hand. Like I said I don't like playing the bad girl calling people out but I really think we're all old enough to not let the trolls get to us!
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90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
02/19/2013 01:24 AMPosted by Botty
Like I said I don't like playing the bad girl calling people out but I really think we're all old enough to not let the trolls get to us!

Pretty true, but regular forum-goers are argumentative :P I guess in a way he's feeding everyone that responds, too, since he actually has the gall to use progression as a form of support to his side lmao.

Either way, maybe it's just me, but I prefer talking about these subjects over vent/mumble because text can be taken so incorrectly. But, I haven't had the chance to talk to him/her, and so it's just frustrating beyond belief to read threads of people crying about how bad their class is when honestly, we're more equal (minus current disc) than we ever have been. We aren't "bad" or "terrible" like this person insists.

Oh well. I came to this thread to read about new ideas or about the proposed changes, but it gets derailed the moment someone steps in saying we're bad and will still continue being bad with the patch because it's not good enough. You know that's just asking for it, especially when their argument is based on their progression or (lack of) knowledge of how the game/class works.
Edited by Fleurs on 2/19/2013 1:31 AM PST
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02/19/2013 01:30 AMPosted by Fleurs
Like I said I don't like playing the bad girl calling people out but I really think we're all old enough to not let the trolls get to us!

Pretty true, but regular forum-goers are argumentative :P I guess in a way he's feeding everyone that responds, too, since he actually has the gall to use progression as a form of support to his side lmao.

Either way, maybe it's just me, but I prefer talking about these subjects over vent/mumble because text can be taken so incorrectly. But, I haven't had the chance to talk to him/her, and so it's just frustrating beyond belief to read threads of people crying about how bad their class is when honestly, we're more equal (minus current disc) than we ever have been. We aren't "bad" or "terrible" like this person insists.

Oh well. I came to this thread to read about new ideas or about the proposed changes, but it gets derailed the moment someone steps in saying we're bad and will still continue being bad with the patch because it's not good enough. You know that's just asking for it, especially when their argument is based on their progression or (lack of) knowledge of how the game/class works.


That is because personal experience does play a part in how we see the game. Personally I felt pretty underpowered when my guild started heroic progression week 2 of MoP but things change as gear comes along. I never thought we are terrible but I did not agree that we are where we should be. I would love to have more druid friends to talk to since I have been the only resto druid in my guild since Firelands so if you wanna hit me up ;D Botty#1337
(finally a reason to show off my badass battletag lol)
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