The real Siege of Orgrimmar last boss...

100 Tauren Druid
8750
Speculative at best. He had many doubts and much rage.

I conjecture that his greatest doubt was cairnes death, and his greatest rage was against the Alliance (but it was soooooooooo totally justified because Aggra said so, :rollseyes: )


Yeah, no. You can't make that stuff up. Aggra doesn't say his rage is justified until after Thrall yells "CAIRNE WAS MY BROTHER!!"
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Oh no, you misunderstand, all his rage is just.

I mean he can blame Garrosh for Cairnes death, but honestly it isn't justified hatred, especially since it wasn't actually Garrosh that killed Cairne, but Magatha and her poison. Also, if we are going to place blame on Garrosh, then Thrall has nobody to blame but himself for leaving Garrosh in charge. He should hate himself for his decisions, and he should blame himself and inact whatever 'justice' he claims to exact onto himself.

This is the root of the problem in Thrall's character - He has all these people he can blame, but when you really get down to it, he's the real culprit. Thrall is the root of all evil in the horde.

Every decision or lack thereof that has shaped the horde to its present day form. Take a bow Thrall, this is your horde.
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90 Orc Warlock
8145
Oh no, you misunderstand, all his rage is just.

I mean he can blame Garrosh for Cairnes death, but honestly it isn't justified hatred, especially since it wasn't actually Garrosh that killed Cairne, but Magatha and her poison. Also, if we are going to place blame on Garrosh, then Thrall has nobody to blame but himself for leaving Garrosh in charge. He should hate himself for his decisions, and he should blame himself and inact whatever 'justice' he claims to exact onto himself.

This is the root of the problem in Thrall's character - He has all these people he can blame, but when you really get down to it, he's the real culprit. Thrall is the root of all evil in the horde.

Every decision or lack thereof that has shaped the horde to its present day form. Take a bow Thrall, this is your horde.


Thrall left Garrosh in charge because he felt the Horde needed a war hero as it's leader during the times of the cataclysm. He couldn't have known exactly how far Garrosh would have went with all his decisions. Cairne and Garrosh were in a duel to the death, eventually one of them would have died and had it not been from the poison of Magatha I believe Cairne would have won.

Thrall isn't perfect, we've seen that. But to say that Thrall is the root of all evil in the horde would be way too speculative. Thrall appoints people that he trusts, they fall to corruption. Thrall shouldn't be held accountable for the actions of others.

Garrosh has went crazy, whether under the control of an old god or something more sinister. He's experimenting with Titan / Sha tech as well as Fel infusions once again. He's just destined to be like his father, I think he'll sacrifice himself in the end of Seige to kill or stall whatever it is controlling him.
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100 Night Elf Druid
9590
Really, you guys? You'd really rather argue about whose fault it is, for everything Garrosh has done, than talk about Malkorok?
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03/22/2013 10:57 AMPosted by Lyndoria
Thrall isn't perfect, we've seen that.


No, that's just it, Thrall IS perfect. He can do whatever he wants, reap no consequences for it, and be the hero.

He can put Garrosh in charge, Garrosh can do all the wrong in the world, and nobody will say, "Thrall made a bad decision." or "Thrall, you made the horde into what it is now with your decision." or "Thrall you've doomed us with Garrosh!"

No. They'll say, "Garrosh is bad, and he deserves death." Nobody will blame Thrall, because he's some ultimate can do no wrong green jesus regardless that he just effectively caused the current war between the alliance and horde.

03/22/2013 10:57 AMPosted by Lyndoria
But to say that Thrall is the root of all evil in the horde would be way too speculative. Thrall appoints people that he trusts, they fall to corruption. Thrall shouldn't be held accountable for the actions of others.


Then we will have to continue to disagree, because until Thrall's head is on a pike right next to Garrosh's, nothing can be forgiven as far as I'm concerned.

Thrall is the ultimate evil because his decisions, the lack thereof, the apathy of wrangling those beneath him, and generally slappping people on the hands for mass murder is what has brought the horde full circle back to its original roots.

The Dark Horde is pretty much back, and it was Thrall's hand that guided it.

Thrall is the new Gul'dan, Garrosh is the new Blackhand. The major difference is that Thrall will continue on, while Garrosh will go the way of Blackhand.
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
11180
Thrall is the new Gul'dan, Garrosh is the new Blackhand. The major difference is that Thrall will continue on, while Garrosh will go the way of Blackhand.


That's a bit extreme, buddy. While I agree with you that Thrall has a lot to do with the current situation and made some very questionable decisions it really detracts from your arguement when you say Thrall and Gul'dan are essentially the same.

Right now, if I hadn't already seen the depth of your lore knowledge, I'd be asking if you even knew what Gul'dan had actually done. But you do know and that actually makes it worse. Thrall has not created a cadre of vicious Deathknights out the corpses of his fallen foes and souls of his vanquished Council. Thrall has not desicrated Elven Runestones to make Altars of Storms. He has not used those same Altars to mutate a bunch of Ogres into killing machines.

The list of lines Gul'dan crossed that Thrall has gone no where near goes on and on. Gul'dan was pure evil. Thrall is not evil. He may be an incompetent judge of character and leadership ability but that's not evil.
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03/22/2013 12:05 PMPosted by Telonis
That's a bit extreme, buddy.


I only use Thrall is Gul'dan in the sense that he is the "Orc"hestrator (wakka wakka) of the Horde, while Garrosh is just the conductor. I don't want to compare Thrall to Gul'dan pound for pound because there is literally no comparisson on that level. THAT would be insane, not to mention very short sighted of myself to do that.
Edited by Seebach on 3/22/2013 1:17 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
11180
03/22/2013 01:16 PMPosted by Seebach
That's a bit extreme, buddy.


I only use Thrall is Gul'dan in the sense that he is the "Orc"hestrator (wakka wakka) of the Horde, while Garrosh is just the conductor. I don't want to compare Thrall to Gul'dan pound for pound because there is literally no comparisson on that level. THAT would be insane, not to mention very short sighted of myself to do that.


In that sense I agree with you.
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Now do you agree with me that whatever happens to Garrosh should also be visited upon Thrall, as he is mastermind of Garrosh's horde?
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