Suggestion: (Minor) Glyph of the Petless

Or as I would like to call it..... Glyph of the Pestless.

Other name I thought of: Glyph of the Lone Hunter

This is a minor glyph intended to remove a pet entirely from being called by the hunter. It would grant an overall % damage bonus to compensate for the lost pet. However, in order to not greatly change this class due to one glyph, there would have to be a lot of necessary things for this to work.

1. This is a Marksman and Survival specialization glyph only.

>Beast Mastery hunters will definitely not have the option to use this glyph.

2. The damage bonus granted will need to compensate for the loss of the pet.

>This will help be especially useful in PvP. Marksman and Survival hunters will not need to worry about pet travel times period. Their burst damage will increase, and target switching will be even easier.

>Since Survival and Marksman likely have a different % of their total DPS from their pet, one spec may be hurt more than the other.

3. The damage bonus granted needs to provide lower sustained damage (or lower DPS) glyphed than unglyphed.

>We would not want this glyph to ever obligate a hunter in PvE or PvP to think "Oh, this is a must". Rather, we want them to think "Oh, having pets is a must" because this is the PET class. This glyph is simply for those of us who dislike worrying about the pest and would enjoy easier target switching / higher burst damage in a non-BM spec while sacrificing overall sustained DPS.

>The lower DPS glyphed will need to be slight, not major, likely unnoticable, but existant.

4. An ability will be learned by Glyph of the Petless / Lone Hunter called "Bestial Adaptation".

>This is to compensate for the loss of utility provided by pets. This will also serve as another reason that Glyph of the Petless is a no go in PvE number-wise: You sacrifice your different utility brought by your 5 different pets because you can only know one adaptation at any one time.

>What this ability does, is lets you walk up to one tamable beast in the wild and learn its ability. You will have a forever lasting buff until you decide to cast "Bestial Adaptation" on a different beast. Only one adapation can be learned at a time. This buff will be visible by opposing players so that they can have the knowledge of which adaptation you are carrying (similar to them understanding what utility your visibly obvious pet brings).

5. Spirit Bond talent must no longer require your pet to be active to receive the passive healing.

>In order to make the talent useful for hunters with this glyph, this will be a universal change to all hunters that has absolutely no effect on its usefulness except for a very slight buff. Considering the talent is behind Iron Hawk according to many hunters, this will help balance as well. Overall, nearly absolutely no change.

>The talent's tooltip will simply say everything it currently does in its tooltip minus the "While your pet is active" part.

6. Roar of Courage is an ability that will be learned by Glyph of the Petless / Lone Hunter and used by the hunter herself / himself.

>As this is a PvP-based glyph, the one PvP-based bonus from pet talents (Cunning) that isn't exclusively for your pet will need to be made a hunter-used ability while the glyph is active.

7. In the tooltip of Blink Strike and Lynx Rush, a bit will need to be added that states "This ability cannot be used if Glyph of the Petless / Lone Hunter is active."

>Even if Blink Strike is the preferred of the three for PvP, all hunters using this glyph will only benefit from the A Murder of Crows talent.

>While A Murder of Crows is the only level 75 talent that Glyph of the Petless / Lone Hunter will allow the use of, Lynx Rush and Blink Strike can still be a learned talent but will do nothing when used (grey-shaded based on default UI, does nothing).

8. Master's Call will have its same effect that applies to both the hunter and the pet as well as mechanics while a pet is active, but having an active pet is no longer a requirement.

>This is another universal change. Master's Call can literally be identical to how it works now (your pet dashing to you and everything), except all hunters will have the option to benefit from the ability and effect while a pet is not active or out of range.

NOTES:

***Stampede will simply use 5 pets that are in your active call pet 1-5 slots and have its same effect. Edit: All 5 pets will have the reduced damage, and the damage per pet must be even lower to compensate for a fifth pet summoned (normally 4 summoned with a current pet summoned) (Thanks Paksanarian).

This is what the tooltip will be something like -

Glyph of the Lone Hunter
Minor Glyph
You can no longer call a pet for assistance in combat. Overall damage done is increased by x% and teaches you the Bestial Adaptation and Roar of Courage abilities.
Edited by Bavok on 2/16/2013 6:03 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Hunter
9200
Due to how many mechanics have to be changed, this would have to be a major glyph. Minor glyphs are purely cosmetic or QoL, and this is a bit more game changing.

I personally wouldn't use it (spec of choice is BM :3), but I've seen many hunters who have asked for something like this. As long as your suggestion of lower sustained but more burst is balance I'm sure it would be feasible. Almost feel like it would be required for PVP though... Which is something you said you wanted to avoid.

Although your last note on Stampede, with you already doing approximately the same damage as with a pet, then wouldnt summoning one pet that does normal damage be a bit too much?

Edit: Ok noticed that you said "more powerful" for stampede so that doesn't necessarily mean as strong as normal, yes?
Edited by Paksanarian on 2/15/2013 8:48 PM PST
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90 Draenei Hunter
14770
or roll a rogue, warrior, dk, monk, shaman, pally, priest, mage (nonfrost spec), druid
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90 Night Elf Hunter
9200
02/15/2013 09:17 PMPosted by Isaboo
or roll a rogue, warrior, dk, monk, shaman, pally, priest, mage (nonfrost spec), druid


He actually put some thought into this and it's a generally good idea - it's not an all or nothing petless spec. WoW lacks a physical ranged damage dealer that doesn't have a pet. While I don't necessarily want a petless option for hunter (it's too late kind of; they should just make a new class) this would be a happy medium. Not required but giving a bit of variety.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
10595
This would be Me Gusta for MM hunters o.o, but obvious a bad move for beast masters, survival is ehh not sure how it would be affected, but ye this would then put MM hunters way up in the charts again like old times.
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02/15/2013 08:47 PMPosted by Paksanarian
then wouldnt summoning one pet that does normal damage be a bit too much?


Ah, yes, this would make sense. I'll be changing that so that each pet summoned deals reduced damage.

02/15/2013 08:47 PMPosted by Paksanarian
Due to how many mechanics have to be changed, this would have to be a major glyph. Minor glyphs are purely cosmetic or QoL, and this is a bit more game changing.


I could agree, the loss of a different major glyph could possibly help balance this and make it less desirable for the pet class - but still an option.

As for wether or not this would be too powerful / required in the end, the damage bonus provided can definitely be toyed around with.
Edited by Bavok on 2/16/2013 6:05 AM PST
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Excellent idea and well thought out post. I would totally use something like this and it answers many Christmas lists. Would take a ton of tweaking but I endorse this fully. Great way of looking outside the box Bavok! *Salute*
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100 Worgen Hunter
12985
here's an idea for blink strike and lynx rush

for blink strike just make it like a a warp stalkers ability but have us doing it instead

and for lynx rush hmm how about this we make it to where our next five auto hits hit for twice as much damage have 50% armor piercing but only half the bleed time and damage
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90 Night Elf Hunter
9200
02/16/2013 10:03 AMPosted by Mashonis
for blink strike just make it like a a warp stalkers ability but have us doing it instead


Have you played GW2? There's an ability the Ranger can do where they shoot an arrow and jump back. This could be something like that, but not as far as disengage?
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100 Worgen Hunter
12985
02/16/2013 01:13 PMPosted by Paksanarian
for blink strike just make it like a a warp stalkers ability but have us doing it instead


Have you played GW2? There's an ability the Ranger can do where they shoot an arrow and jump back. This could be something like that, but not as far as disengage?


That's be a good idea as well. If disengage is used right after for some more distance it would most certainly be good for our mobility, might be considered a bit op though...
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A glyph? The only way this could be implemented successfully is if it were a spec, and hunters don't need a new spec. Hunters need to be fixed before they add anything like an all new spec.

Also, if you don't like the pet, then why are you a hunter? I could see not liking the frost mage pet, but hunters are all about the pet. What makes them unique is how their bond with their pets. Other than that, the only thing they have special is being a ranged physical damage dealer, and even then, a good portion is magic.
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90 Orc Hunter
13355
Hate the idea but over the years I have seen this come up alot so maybe blizz should make a new class that uses bows guns and crossbows as their main wp but hunters with no pet just feels wrong.
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100 Dwarf Hunter
23575
02/15/2013 09:29 PMPosted by Paksanarian
WoW lacks a physical ranged damage dealer that doesn't have a pet.

This really doesn't mean much. You could make just about any argument using this sort of logic (i.e., WoW lacks a tank that wears cloth, WoW lacks a mage that can heal, WoW lacks a casting melee DPS, ...).

On the broader idea, my perspective is that if you want to play a class without a pet, roll a class without a pet. It's not like hunters have suddenly had pets forced on them in the last expansion -- no matter when you rolled a hunter, you had to have known what you were getting yourself into there.

And if you just don't like paying any attention to your pet, just put it on Assist and ignore it. Assist is good enough if you're already willing to sacrifice damage output to not have a pet.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
9200
WoW lacks a physical ranged damage dealer that doesn't have a pet.

This really doesn't mean much. You could make just about any argument using this sort of logic (i.e., WoW lacks a tank that wears cloth, WoW lacks a mage that can heal, WoW lacks a casting melee DPS, ...).

On the broader idea, my perspective is that if you want to play a class without a pet, roll a class without a pet. It's not like hunters have suddenly had pets forced on them in the last expansion -- no matter when you rolled a hunter, you had to have known what you were getting yourself into there.

And if you just don't like paying any attention to your pet, just put it on Assist and ignore it. Assist is good enough if you're already willing to sacrifice damage output to not have a pet.


My point was, out of all ranged, there's casters, and then there's hunters. A lot of people roll hunters because they are an archer/ranger class and like the physical damage aspect of it, not casting. While I personally rolled a Hunter for both the archery AND the pet, others do not.

While I sort of agree that, hey, roll something else if you don't like the pet, that's rather not fair. And my reason was stated above. I do believe this would have to be a new class, though. A ranger type without a pet, since I personally feel that hunters shouldn't have a petless option.
Edited by Paksanarian on 2/16/2013 7:57 PM PST
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100 Tauren Hunter
11755
I like this idea. You actually gave it some thought instead of just posting ramblings about whatever spits off the top of your head. I just posted something similar, but about Spirit Bond. A glyph might be kind of a weird spot to put it, though. That's a LOT of changes just for one glyph. I think it'd have to be a talent or special ability. I'm glad that other people want this, though. Even if we can get one person at Blizz thinking about Petless Hunters, I'd consider that a victory.
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
22595
my post from the other topic about that
know it's part of the class, but I would like to see a spell like Grimoire of Sacrifice for hunters.
In MoP the dps portion of the pet has raised for non BM specs and that really hurts on fights that your pet can't dps or don't benefit from the extra dmg of the fight.

Pandaria fights that your pet will !@#$ your dps:
Gu Cloudstrike - Shado-Pan Monastery (Pets can't attack the cloud serpent)
Stone Guard H (pets don't benefit from extra dmg buff)
Garalon (pet didn't benefit from the extra dmg on the legs)(this one got fixed after some time)
Protectors of the Endless (pets don't benefit from extra dmg buff)
Millhouse Manastorm - Brawlers Guild (pets don't benefit from extra dmg buff)

From cata:
Al'akir (pet despawn on p3)
Nefarian (pet bugging or dying on the pillars)
Alysrazor (pet despawn if you fly)

And we all know that those kind of fights will always be there, they should either make a grimoire of sacrifice for hunters or make a failproof system on pets, specially on those fights with extra dmg that don't go to your pet.

and sorry for the bad english.
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Ah, that would definitely make sense if it were a talent (like grimoire of sacrifice)

In that case it would provide an overall bonus to compensate for the DPS / utility lost from the other talents in a similar way; however, it would also need to be a lower bonus than the other 2 talents in its tier so that this class remains the pet class.

I personally think that fervor is just a glorified focus regen, nothing really special to it, other talents in that tier regen / save focus as well. That might be an option of what is replaced, then add a simple % focus regeneration bonus to Lone Hunter to compensate for the loss of the focus regen talent.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
8040
i could see this working fairly well. for that bestial adaption thing id suggest "calling" your pet while using this glyph would instead just teach you an adaption based on what its skill was.this way using the glyph wont destroy the utility and just impact your overall dps.
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90 Orc Hunter
10475
Why don't you just dismiss your pet? This doesn't require a major overhaul of several mechanics and doesn't need balancing to boot.
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100 Night Elf Druid
6355
I think if they're going to try to do this as a glyph, they shouldn't bother with the utility provided by pets; you are free to only use this in situations where you don't need the utility anyway, just like you're free to use it in situations where you don't need your pet to tank for you. It would take too much dev time to get all the utility moved to the hunter, make sure it doesn't end up being clearly superior (because, for one thing, you can't remove the pet's buff by killing the pet), etc.

Just give a straight % damage bonus to some/all ranged attacks (so that you're not completely destroying your DPS in addition to giving up utility) and call it a day.

The buff needs to rely on dismissing your pet while it is alive, though; otherwise the glyph would be a clear improvement in situations where your pet might get killed (you keep the benefits of the pet if it lives, but also gain a buff if it dies).

I don't think they should try to make a separate ranger class; it would be too difficult to distinguish it enough from all the ranged stuff hunters already have (even including one of the WC3 dark ranger's signature moves). Rogues sometimes complain that monks are rogues 2.0; we really don't need a sniper class that is going to be MM 2.0.
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