[guardian] figuring stats out

90 Troll Druid
8910
I've been doing a ton of research and still come up with a few ways of gemming and reforming. Either hit/exp caps and stack crit or go mastery>dodge a don't worry about hit/exp

So I'm wondering has anyone found a happy medium between a rage generation build and a mastery heavy build for physical dmg? My guild wanted to try heroic dogs last night and I took 20% more damage then our dk tank I never did calculate how much I healed myself for though

Anyways I'm mostly just hoping to find a build that works for both magic and physical encounters was wondering I maybe haste might be better then crit for auto attacks giving rage and procs maybe ?
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90 Tauren Druid
13005
Well crit/hit/exp is really the only way to go at higher gear levels not only do you get the benefit of having SD up all the time but you also have some extra rage for FR if needed.

Mastery/dodge suck 90% of the time, not because they aren't good stats but because they are only good for physical damage, where as when gearing for rage gen you can not only avoid attacks but heal as well.

And typically you'll take more damage than a dk on dogs, most the damage comes from the bleed not melee and if I'm not mistaken blood shield absorbs bleed effects? maybe? and even if not just based on AMS they will take a lot less damage over the course of the fight.
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90 Troll Druid
8910
Fair enough. I knew I'd rage more damage on dogs but as I said I didn't calculate how much I healed myself for.

I've been finding that druid tanking is kind of boring but my gmail and raid leader both thinks druid and dk tanks is the best setup for tank progression
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100 Tauren Druid
13455
I personally think raids are lacking if they don't have a paladin tank. The amount of healing they can do to the raid is stupid.

Crit and haste are pretty much equal in terms of RPS (rage per second), with crit being marginally better. Stone Guard is really the only fight we truly lack defensives for, however Frenzied Regen makes up for it just fine. Lei Shi is the same except we have a lot of magic damage reduction via Thick Hide, so it's okay.

Hit/expertise caps (7.5%, 15%) > crit > haste >>>> mastery > dodge, will do you for 100% of fights currently. I changed for one pull for Heroic Will because I thought mastery would have been better, but I liked my normal set up better.
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100 Tauren Druid
18965
02/14/2013 12:41 PMPosted by Wrõng
My guild wanted to try heroic dogs last night and I took 20% more damage then our dk tank I never did calculate how much I healed myself for though


Was this 10-man? Were you tanking 1 dog or 2?
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90 Troll Druid
8910
it was on 10 man and there are time when im tanking 2 and theres other when im tanking 1 just depends on which ones ability was going off
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
You're just going to take more damage than other tanks on Stone Guard because we have no way of preventing the damage (except cooldowns). On the other hand, FR is amazing for that fight.

All other tanks have absorption mechanics which cause them to take less damage.

Don't worry about it.
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90 Troll Druid
8910
alright ill try to. it just seems for the most part even all normal bosses (we have cleared 16/16) i take more damage then him just makes me wonder if i was ever doing anything wrong at some point
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90 Tauren Druid
13005
02/14/2013 04:41 PMPosted by Wrõng
alright ill try to. it just seems for the most part even all normal bosses (we have cleared 16/16) i take more damage then him just makes me wonder if i was ever doing anything wrong at some point


defiantly shouldn't be all, especially with a dk tank, pretty much any fight with moderate to high melee damage you should take less damage on (the dks healing should make up the difference), if your consistently taking more damage then he considerably out gears you or your doings something wrong.
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
When you do heroic gara'jal and you manage to do it properly, you'll be much better than a DK since they can't really mitigate/avoid damage. It really just depends on the fight.
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90 Night Elf Druid
13680
You are probably doing something wrong.
Glancing at your character, you are under a couple of misguided assumptions:

1) Gemming Agility - you don't do this. Agility is rated better than Crit, but not to the point of twice as good. Assume Agi is about 50% better than crit, but since gemming CRIT gives you 100% more points, you'll find your gems should revolve around crit. The fact you have 2 agi gems in your chest (which is 2 yellow sockets) means a lesson in rage would benefit you from someone who isn't me (because I prefer to spend as much rage on maul as I can and demand Viv keeps me up)

2) Expertise soft cap matters. It does not, it should be renamed Expertise fail to understand you're tanking cap. You should be aiming for 7.5% hit and 15% expertise as a tank. I saw you'd reforged your weapon incorrectly and that you had 7.8% hit, waste of hit. If you're going to be over on a hit/exp stat then you better be over both 7.5% hit and 15% exp for it not to be a mistake.

When it comes to a build which works for both physical and magical - it's hit/exp and crit. Mastery versus Haste wont matter too much with the heavy reforging required for crit n caps but when it comes to different styles it's more about how you spend your rage...
Stone Guard and Elegon are examples of FR fights (though I prefer to SD during 2 dog tanking moments) while Garaj'al and Will are when it's better to SD ahead of FRing.

Fix your gemming to be Agi/Crit, Crit and Crit/Stam (or Crit/Hit), Consider getting agility trinkets for most fights over stamina ones (Lei Shi is a point when I prefer Stam > Agi trinkets) and focus on knowing when to SD, when to FR and when to go "RAWRSARELLASMASH" maulspam.

Also drop herbalism for engineering (or blacksmithing/jcing/enchanting if you're dull and boring) for rocketboots!
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90 Worgen Druid
11830
What guardians lack is the magical resistance all other tanks seem to have... it bugs me a bit.

Granted we have the most HP in the game, it still doesnt make up for magical resistance, or lack there of.

I do like how we are the best melee damage tanks in the game, but if I have to go into a fight like ambershaper P3 I would be screwed.

But my guardian is a lower level ATM, so I only know from what I hear on threads and what ive learned from youtube.
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100 Tauren Druid
13455
02/15/2013 07:07 AMPosted by Skyotter
What guardians lack is the magical resistance all other tanks seem to have... it bugs me a bit.


We have the highest passive magic reduction of any tank.

02/15/2013 07:07 AMPosted by Skyotter
Granted we have the most HP in the game,


Modifier, sure, but my pally co-tank often has much more stamina than I do. Likely because we want agility/crit trinkets and stamina/mastery trinkets are much more appealing to them.

02/15/2013 07:07 AMPosted by Skyotter
but if I have to go into a fight like ambershaper P3 I would be screwed.


Why's that?
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90 Worgen Druid
11830
02/15/2013 08:12 AMPosted by Saeilfa
We have the highest passive magic reduction of any tank.


From every guide I looked up on it seemed to me that everything I hear our magical resistance it none. But from what your saying our magic resistance is best?

Modifier, sure, but my pally co-tank often has much more stamina than I do. Likely because we want agility/crit trinkets and stamina/mastery trinkets are much more appealing to them.


Yeah I am referring to Might of Ursoc and whatnot.

02/15/2013 08:12 AMPosted by Saeilfa
Why's that?


If I am not mistaken the amber he throws in P3 is magical I thought. Again I could be wrong, but my AMS when I run the fight as boomkin absorbs damage from it.
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90 Troll Druid
13825
02/15/2013 08:26 AMPosted by Skyotter
From every guide I looked up on it seemed to me that everything I hear our magical resistance it none. But from what your saying our magic resistance is best?


25% magic resist as a pasive

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=16931
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100 Tauren Druid
13455
02/15/2013 08:26 AMPosted by Skyotter
But from what your saying our magic resistance is best?


http://www.wowhead.com/spell=16931

We are perfectly fine for magic fights. Warriors and Dks have an absorption shield, making them slightly easier to heal, paladins and druids have to heal up after the damage, making it appear as though they take more damage. I'm unsure of what monks do outside of glyphed Guard and other cool downs (Stagger does not negate magic damage).

Have a look at our latest Lei Shi kill, "damage taken". Our paladin tank had slightly more uptime on the boss than I did, yet takes far more damage than I did.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/kcobj0l8uy4lwcc7/sum/damageTaken/?s=11491&e=11860

02/15/2013 08:26 AMPosted by Skyotter
Yeah I am referring to Might of Ursoc and whatnot.


In that case warriors would win that contest. Wants more stamina(trinkets) + Last Stand + Rallying + Commanding Shout.

However in terms of stamina modifier, I found this a little while ago.

"Death knight, at 34%.

Paladins have a 25% bonus.

Druids and monks both have a 20% bonus, but druids can get 6% more if they choose the Heart of the Wild talent.

Warriors have a 15% bonus."

So bears still only have the second highest, IF they choose Heart of the Wild, which many bears don't because NV is so good (aside from fights where the bosses hurt or where they need to pull of some clutch DPS/healing, etc).

02/15/2013 08:26 AMPosted by Skyotter
If I am not mistaken the amber he throws in P3 is magical I thought.


So what? Twice now we've killed heroic Amber Shaper with me solo tanking phase 2 and 3 (our other tank is in the construct the entire time after phase 1), and it's absolutely no issue. Just keep up SD because the boss hits quite hard, and use FR + cool downs if you get low. Phase 3 is certainly not the worst bit about this fight.
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
02/15/2013 08:14 PMPosted by Saeilfa
Have a look at our latest Lei Shi kill, "damage taken". Our paladin tank had slightly more uptime on the boss than I did, yet takes far more damage than I did.
He also didn't use GoAK or get a Salvation. So that's not the whole story.
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100 Tauren Druid
13455
He also didn't use GoAK or get a Salvation. So that's not the whole story.


WoL does not track GoAK properly for some reason. He uses it on just about every fight.

He did not pull threat. After the first few pulls on progression we've made sure not to hit the boss after the other tank has taunted. I only got Salvation when I asked for it during Incarnation.
Edited by Saeilfa on 2/15/2013 11:31 PM PST
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100 Tauren Druid
13265
Have a look at our latest Lei Shi kill, "damage taken". Our paladin tank had slightly more uptime on the boss than I did, yet takes far more damage than I did.


Takes 10% more sprays and takes 20% more damage, and that 10% difference is entirely removed by sacred shield absorbs.

Near-identical is the best word to describe that, which I guess is the point, although the wording would seem to imply druids>paladins in that regard.
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100 Tauren Druid
13455
02/16/2013 12:02 AMPosted by Ahanss
although the wording would seem to imply druids>paladins in that regard.


I apologise, that was not my intent. Thanks for expressing what I couldn't while half asleep! haha

02/16/2013 12:02 AMPosted by Ahanss
Near-identical is the best word to describe that, which I guess is the point,
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