Varian, an actually High King?

80 Blood Elf Warrior
7750
So I was thinking about this today.
How many Alliance races actually have an identity outside of their military?
With this whole "High King" situation, Varian is going to end up leading the other races armies.
In this world of constant conflict, your military forces pretty much are you identity.
So far I can only think of the Dwarves and the Explorers League, I don't think it counts as military so Varian probably has no control over them.
The other races I can't really think of other things they do outside of their military.
Worgen: ???
Draenei: ???
Night Elves: ???
Gnomes: ???
Pandaren: Lol Pandaren don't count as a real faction race.

So does this mean that Varian is essentially becoming a actually High King?
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90 Draenei Monk
16325
High King was a terrible idea and I hope it disappears after MoP.
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
02/17/2013 09:42 PMPosted by Eldos
Pandaren: Lol Pandaren don't count as a real faction race.


02/17/2013 09:56 PMPosted by Lena
High King was a terrible idea and I hope it disappears after MoP.


Indeed.

Anyway, the High King only works so long as the faction leaders give their consent (in theory). If Varian tried to assert his High King role as anything other than a glorified SAC? He'd have a bunch of other nations lolnoping and withdrawing their support, like what would've happened had Lothar decided to make himself the king of the nations he was leading.
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I think what bothers me about the title is we never saw it's genesis. We never saw the meeting where the Alliance leaders met and decided that a combined military force under a single leader was something that was needed.

The result is that we have all this ambiguity on what Varian can actually do or if his position even technically exists.
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90 Draenei Paladin
8635
I really don't get why they went with High King. Why didn't they just go with S.A.C like they did before? High King is VERY confusing as a title name to people because it makes it sound like he has power over every nation when it is literally just a military title. Perhaps they are saving S.A.C for Turaylon? I don't know it just seems like it would have been better if they had gone with S.A.C.
Edited by Gollard on 2/18/2013 1:46 AM PST
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90 Draenei Monk
16325
I think what bothers me about the title is we never saw it's genesis. We never saw the meeting where the Alliance leaders met and decided that a combined military force under a single leader was something that was needed.

The result is that we have all this ambiguity on what Varian can actually do or if his position even technically exists.


Who knows when it was agreed to, but clearly Jaina doesn't give a crap who Varian is, she does what she wants. She makes it pretty clear that she leads the Kirin Tor. But that might just be a benefit she gets from being a human.
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90 Draenei Shaman
14085
I actually like the High King idea. When I first heard of it I thought(correctly it seem) it was just gonna be another title similar to Supreme Alliance commander. There was no way Varian was going to get civilian leadership over the whole Alliance and it was purely a military leadership.

On topic I think the races are, slowly, finding there own identities outside of war. For the night elves there story is a story of loss and dealing with there mortality. We say this in Karasang and Aurburdine. Drenaei will always have there story focused on the army of light and being the poster boy of shamanism in the Alliance. The gnome story will focus on ingenuity and there attempt to finally take back Gnomeragan. Worgens with dealing with there curse and proving there not monsters and showing there nobility even under there curse. The dwarves will have to deal with the dark irons and there attempt at unity.

Now the thing is WoW is still an MMO and in many ways racial lore is always secondary to lore to building up the next big bad guy. I'm sure each race will get there time in the spotlight *points at blood elves* but it will usually take years before any meaningful events occur.
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
02/18/2013 01:46 AMPosted by Gollard
I really don't get why they went with High King. Why didn't they just go with S.A.C like they did before? High King is VERY confusing as a title name to people because it makes it sound like he has power over every nation when it is literally just a military title. Perhaps they are saving S.A.C for Turaylon? I don't know it just seems like it would have been better if they had gone with S.A.C.


I think it's fairly clear they wanted to be the High King to be exactly what it implies. It's just that after the forum backlash, they backpeddled.
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90 Draenei Monk
16325
02/18/2013 02:19 AMPosted by Gandred
I really don't get why they went with High King. Why didn't they just go with S.A.C like they did before? High King is VERY confusing as a title name to people because it makes it sound like he has power over every nation when it is literally just a military title. Perhaps they are saving S.A.C for Turaylon? I don't know it just seems like it would have been better if they had gone with S.A.C.


I think it's fairly clear they wanted to be the High King to be exactly what it implies. It's just that after the forum backlash, they backpeddled.


He already is doing more than just military. He forced the dwarves into a council, he was the decision maker in whether or not to use sha, he was trying to bring blood elves into the alliance secretly. Those aren't just military decisions and he has no right to make those choices for the entire alliance.
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90 Draenei Shaman
14085
02/18/2013 02:48 AMPosted by Lena
. He forced the dwarves into a council,


What exactly was he suppose to do, let the dwarves have a bloodly civil war?

02/18/2013 02:48 AMPosted by Lena
he was the decision maker in whether or not to use sha,


He had the support of both Tyrande and Nobundo. He wasnt the only one who decided.

02/18/2013 02:48 AMPosted by Lena
he was trying to bring blood elves into the alliance secretly


The Alliance has been trying to bring back the blood elves since Burning Crusade. Besides, its not like Varian is the only one who uses various diplomatic channels. Heck, Tyrande allowed for a secret druid meeting back in Cata to talk about peace. Something tell me Varian and the other leaders were not in the loop back then.
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90 Human Warrior
16790
Emperor Varian will lead us into a new age, free from the HERESY of the Horde.
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90 Draenei Monk
16325
What exactly was he suppose to do, let the dwarves have a bloodly civil war?


Dwarves should handle dwarf issues. It's a case of humans being thrown in where they don't belong to show another race as incompetent.

He had the support of both Tyrande and Nobundo. He wasnt the only one who decided.


Yes he was, the other people there were just giving advice. It should have been an all in or nobody's in situation. He made the right choice, but it wasn't his to make.

The Alliance has been trying to bring back the blood elves since Burning Crusade. Besides, its not like Varian is the only one who uses various diplomatic channels. Heck, Tyrande allowed for a secret druid meeting back in Cata to talk about peace. Something tell me Varian and the other leaders were not in the loop back then.


Doing it secretly without consulting other alliance leaders ended poorly.
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
02/18/2013 03:41 AMPosted by Lena
Dwarves should handle dwarf issues. It's a case of humans being thrown in where they don't belong to show another race as incompetent.


Council was probably one of the cooler developments of the Dwarves, though. A lot more intriguing than when Magni was ruler.

02/18/2013 03:41 AMPosted by Lena
Doing it secretly without consulting other alliance leaders ended poorly.


It's probably likely that another vote would be held, similar to how voting Gilneas in worked.
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90 Draenei Monk
16325
Council was probably one of the cooler developments of the Dwarves, though. A lot more intriguing than when Magni was ruler.


Sure, but it should have been the dwarves who did it. Varian was just out of place in the storyline altogether and he far exceeded his power in forcing them to set up a council.
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
02/18/2013 03:47 AMPosted by Lena
Sure, but it should have been the dwarves who did it. Varian was just out of place in the storyline altogether and he far exceeded his power in forcing them to set up a council.


I don't consider Dwarves and Humans to be out of place in each other's stories since they're pretty much the closest of allies.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
17875
Based on the title I expected more weed jokes in this thread.
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90 Draenei Shaman
14085
02/18/2013 03:41 AMPosted by Lena
Dwarves should handle dwarf issues. It's a case of humans being thrown in where they don't belong to show another race as incompetent.


That is not really how the Alliance works. When Onyxia and the "fake" Varian were mucking up Stormwind King Magni didnt go "let the humans handle it". On that note lets not forget the entirety of Stormwind was fooled for 4+years by Onyxia. Every race has has had bouts of incompetence.

02/18/2013 03:41 AMPosted by Lena
Yes he was, the other people there were just giving advice. It should have been an all in or nobody's in situation. He made the right choice, but it wasn't his to make.


Two things, 1) harnessing the sha as weapon seem like a pretty military decision 2) Stormwind does have a powerful say considering its the nation fielding the largest fighting force of the Alliance.
Edited by Zerde on 2/18/2013 5:58 AM PST
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85 Worgen Warrior
8190
02/18/2013 03:41 AMPosted by Lena
Dwarves should handle dwarf issues. It's a case of humans being thrown in where they don't belong to show another race as incompetent.


That's like saying "Well Alterac should handle an Alterac issue" back in Warcraft II. No they shouldn't, they're part of the bigger picture, and if their issues turned into Alliance issues, then that's putting the whole Alliance at risk. What Varian did is what the Alliance has been doing. Beyond that, Anduin was the one forcing them into a Council, not Varian.

02/18/2013 03:41 AMPosted by Lena
Yes he was, the other people there were just giving advice. It should have been an all in or nobody's in situation. He made the right choice, but it wasn't his to make.


Yes because waiting on seven different opinions would have been a grand idea. I'm sure that wouldn't mean any consequences. *Looks at Stormwind after the First War and the reason the Alliance came to be the first time around.* Well... Nevermind that it wouldn't have any consequences.

02/18/2013 03:41 AMPosted by Lena
Doing it secretly without consulting other alliance leaders ended poorly.

So... Instead it should have been the Alliance as a whole sitting in on a council with Lor'Themar? I'm sure that would have been grand. Granted, I think Velen could have worked better than Varian, but none the less, it's not the Alliance's call to sit in on each and every meeting. Or have you forgotten how Draenei were introduced? It wasn't by the Humans, Dwarves, nor Gnomes. It was the act of Night Elves plus one ship. Or how about Worgen? The Night Elves harbored the Worgen until Varian agreed to admit them into the Alliance.

It's a matter of acting with haste and working with it later with a new ally, or acting with every single leader of every Alliance organization and hoping they're still interested.
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90 Night Elf Druid
13000
02/18/2013 01:46 AMPosted by Gollard
I really don't get why they went with High King. Why didn't they just go with S.A.C like they did before? High King is VERY confusing as a title name to people because it makes it sound like he has power over every nation when it is literally just a military title. Perhaps they are saving S.A.C for Turaylon? I don't know it just seems like it would have been better if they had gone with S.A.C.

They probably did it to make an Alliance counterpart to the Horde's warchief, which has centralized power.
Also, they might have placed Varian in that station so that they can juxtapose him with Garrosh with the two being similar (as supreme leaders of their respectve factions) but with Varian being the "ideal" protagonist and Garrosh being the "messed-up" antagonist. "Varian is leading his faction the right way while Garrosh isn't."

I don't like it, though. I'd like the night elves to retain their autonomy from the rest of the Alliance, as though they were a separate faction, like in WC3, but in an alliance with the Alliance (yeah).
Edited by Treegrower on 2/18/2013 6:45 AM PST
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Anduin was the one forcing them into a Council, not Varian.


This is important to remember. Anduin's the one who insisted on meddling. Varian was just going to kill Moira and be done with it.
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