Varian, an actually High King?

90 Draenei Shaman
14085
02/18/2013 09:02 PMPosted by Ferlion
Krasus isn't the best example to use, as he's the best mage the setting has seen outside of the Aspects themselves or Medivh, as well as an ancient Dragon who fought Deathwing before.


Granted he is a powerful wizard but Stormwind also has an entire district full of magi, in many ways WoW has shown mortal mages to be as capable if not sometime better than dragon mages, oh and we also have Jaina.

But showing him in a way that put's players favorite characters in a negative light isn't going to make him likable OR respectable. Instead, it's going to do exactly what happened. Make people resent him as a character AND say the only reason he got he job is because Blizzard dumbed down the other characters.


Maybe. But so far it seem like Blizz is doing ok if thread if to be believed. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7924333475
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145
And Jaina wasn't more powerful or knowledgeable than Krasus. Not that she isn't talented herself, but The Big K had a trick for everything.

Maybe. But so far it seem like Blizz is doing ok if thread if to be believed.


And many other threads say otherwise.

It's a matter of opinion, of course.
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90 Human Paladin
17285
Krasus was a good mage... but I think Aegwynn, Antonidas, Azshara, Illidan, Jaina, Kael'thas, Kel'Thuzad, Khadgar and Medivh all had him outclassed.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145
I'll give you Aegwynn, Azshara and Medivh for power, but I'll only give you Aegwynn for knowledge.
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90 Draenei Shaman
14085
And many other threads say otherwise.

It's a matter of opinion, of course.


That is true. In any case we probable have 3 more patches and we will see if Blizzard succeed in making Varian the "Lothar" of WoW or if they will fail horribly.
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02/18/2013 09:39 PMPosted by Zerde
making Varian the "Lothar" of WoW or if they will fail horribly.


My money is on failing horribly.

They're not too good at "big" plots.

They'll probably have Knaak write it.
Edited by Brukk on 2/18/2013 9:42 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
17285
02/18/2013 09:29 PMPosted by Ferlion
I'll give you Aegwynn, Azshara and Medivh for power, but I'll only give you Aegwynn for knowledge.


Aegwynn defeated the avatar of Sargeras.
Medivh opened the Dark Portal.
Khadgar vaporized the Dark Portal.
Illidan nearly cracked Northrend in half.
Kael'thas mastered the Cipher of Damnation.
Jaina has frozen heroes, teleported armies and held her own against the Lich King.
Kel'Thuzad was said to be so powerful nothing short of the Sunwell could revive him. Then he was reborn as a lich, empowered by Ner'zhul and learned from Medivh's spellbook.

What has Krasus done that could compare? He did create Anveena... but by his own admission, he only created an illusion to hide the energy that was re-accumulating in the Sunwell. He was as surprised as anyone else when that illusion came to life.
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02/18/2013 09:48 PMPosted by Egrem
Kael'thas mastered the Cipher of Damnation.


That appears to be a matter of being able to read it.

02/18/2013 09:48 PMPosted by Egrem
Jaina has frozen heroes, teleported armies and held her own against the Lich King.


"Held her own" is a bit of a shaky claim.

"Barely made it out of there with her skin intact" might be a more likely statement.

I'll give you the rest, but I really think Krasus out mages these two.
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90 Goblin Shaman
8090
Why does everyone think that the High King won't be around after MoP?
What? Blizz is gonna make Varian High King over the course of an ENTIRE expansion only to remove it instantly?

Nar, Varian is gonna be High King for good.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145
Aegwynn defeated the Avatar, as part of the Avatars plan.
Medivh did open the portal, I'll give you that.
Vaporizing the portal on the other hand is unbalancing a spell. It's not neccisarily a raw strength type deal.
Illidan used a magical artifact to do the deed.
Keal'Thas mastered the Cipher of Damnation, but we don't really know if Krasus would have been able to.
Jaina held her own against the Lich King when he was playing with her. Krasus held his own against Deathwing.
Kel'Thuzad was dead. Reanimation isn't exactly common in the setting.

Krasus created anveena, but he also killed the Leviathon that even the aspects feared (If I recall).
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90 Draenei Monk
16325
Why does everyone think that the High King won't be around after MoP?
What? Blizz is gonna make Varian High King over the course of an ENTIRE expansion only to remove it instantly?

Nar, Varian is gonna be High King for good.


Given emergency military command. Makes decisions beyond just military. Refuses to give up the position when the reason he was given it is no longer a reason.

Hmm, new raid boss inc.
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Given emergency military command. Makes decisions beyond just military. Refuses to give up the position when the reason he was given it is no longer a reason.


Caesar.
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90 Human Paladin
17285
02/18/2013 09:54 PMPosted by Ferlion
Vaporizing the portal on the other hand is unbalancing a spell. It's not neccisarily a raw strength type deal.


The first time Khadgar tried to close the Dark Portal, he failed to unravel the spell... but he displayed a lot of power in the attempt (and that was relatively early in his career). The second time he just closed the rift.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Khadgar#Videos

02/18/2013 09:54 PMPosted by Ferlion
Kel'Thuzad was dead. Reanimation isn't exactly common in the setting.


Raising the dead into undeath wasn't a big deal for the Scourge. Arthas managed to reanimate Sapphiron (a blue great wyrm) despite being in a heavily weakened state... but even Arthas could not reanimate "a being of Kel'Thuzad's power" without having all the power of the Sunwell at his disposal.

As a lich empowered by both the Sunwell and the Lich King, Kel'Thuzad was the only spellcaster available to the Scourge/Legion capable of summoning Archimonde - not even Tichondrius was able to do that.

Kel'Thuzad put fear into dreadlords, withstood an attack that wiped out an army, and created some of the Scourge's strongest death knights. He also learned the secrets of Medivh's spellbook. He was no joke.

02/18/2013 09:54 PMPosted by Ferlion
Krasus created anveena, but he also killed the Leviathon that even the aspects feared (If I recall).


He killed that creature with a poisoned crossbolt bolt, not with his skills as a mage.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Manta
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90 Tauren Druid
7765
Okay I haven't read up on this yet, but Varian decides to use the sha as a weapon? Or am I getting the info from these comments mixed up with Garrosh?

All I can say is if Varian is using the sha too, then we just might have another raid boss...

That, and it would be perhaps a tad ironic. Uncle What's-his-gut in Shrine of Two Moons tells a joke about how if Varian got posessed by Pandaria, it would be pretty sha-king...
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
02/20/2013 09:21 AMPosted by Hushkawnek
Okay I haven't read up on this yet, but Varian decides to use the sha as a weapon? Or am I getting the info from these comments mixed up with Garrosh?


No, he bans it's use entirely. For the other races as well, I believe is what people are saying.
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90 Tauren Druid
7765
I see. I'm not too familiar with anything Alliance-side. I've always thought Varian was kind of a jerk, though, so I thought he might be kind of a shadow of his upstanding kid.
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90 Draenei Monk
16325
Okay I haven't read up on this yet, but Varian decides to use the sha as a weapon? Or am I getting the info from these comments mixed up with Garrosh?


No, he bans it. The issue is that he was the one to make the choice, not which choice he made.
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Now, I've been very critical of the "high king" idea, and increasingly so as it seems he just is the high king with no real justification, but the way I rationalize it to prevent myself from getting a stomach ulcer is just by saying "whenever a head of state within the alliance is simultaneously the supreme allied commander, they're referred to as 'high king' instead of the longer title like 'King of Stormwind and Supreme Allied Commander of Alliance Forces' or something".

Otherwise I start to vomit blood.
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90 Draenei Monk
16325
Now, I've been very critical of the "high king" idea, and increasingly so as it seems he just is the high king with no real justification, but the way I rationalize it to prevent myself from getting a stomach ulcer is just by saying "whenever a head of state within the alliance is simultaneously the supreme allied commander, they're referred to as 'high king' instead of the longer title like 'King of Stormwind and Supreme Allied Commander of Alliance Forces' or something".

Otherwise I start to vomit blood.


I wish. He's making decisions for the whole alliance that are more than just military decisions.
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Now, I've been very critical of the "high king" idea, and increasingly so as it seems he just is the high king with no real justification, but the way I rationalize it to prevent myself from getting a stomach ulcer is just by saying "whenever a head of state within the alliance is simultaneously the supreme allied commander, they're referred to as 'high king' instead of the longer title like 'King of Stormwind and Supreme Allied Commander of Alliance Forces' or something".

Otherwise I start to vomit blood.


I wish. He's making decisions for the whole alliance that are more than just military decisions.

He's been doing that since before he became high king, unfortunately. That, and Kosak has said on the record that he... doesn't have the power to make domestic decisions as the High King. So it seems him making those decisions isn't at all due to the High King position.
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