5.2 and Ret "Seal Twisting"

90 Human Paladin
More time on Avenging Wrath is great...but I'm not entirely sure that will actually help in the long run. Maybe it will, but...I still feel our biggest issue is lack of sustained damage, not lack of burst. Our burst is fine, but once it's gone, we're kinda pitiful until it's back up again. Only being good every 2 minutes is kinda meh.
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90 Human Paladin
02/16/2013 09:08 AMPosted by Lobster
Roma, the new PVP bonus is a buff... Are you really reading it as a negative?

We're getting back what we had for the previous 3 xpacs as a 4 set bonus. It should be 2 min baseline. Worse than that though is that the core problems with the class remain unaddressed. Will I take it? Sure. Will it (or any of the other changes in 5.2) make lolret viable? Alas, no.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
And AW was always 3min lol. We had to spend talent points to make it 2min in previous expansions.

While true, that doesn't really mean anything with how talents used to work.
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90 Human Paladin
The problem as that AW is such a huge component of our dps. It allows access to HoW outside of execute range and isn't available at any point after the initial use and just after entering execute phase, on average. The problem with this is, that HoW now generates HoPo and that acceleration of HoPo generation is what's really cranking the numbers up during AW, not just the extra 20% damage. It makes a huge difference. You could leave Sanctified Wrath untouched and the AV cd at 3mins, but allowing HoW to be active during Inq would be, IMO, a better idea. It's what they should have done. You remember when GC mused on twitter about reducing the cd of AV to 1min but lowering the damage buff to 10%? It'd probably end up being lower than that but this is what he was trying to get at: The bonus isn't the damage, it's HoW.

But as far as increasing sustained dps, without futzing with mechanics like that, Sword of Light is the way to go. They could increase the AP>SP bonus and the +damage w/ 2hand weaps without touching any core rotational abilities.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
02/14/2013 01:17 PMPosted by Rùne
I personally would love to see seal twisting come back. It adds a higher skill cap for rets that are capable/want to really push their dps. But then again I would also love to see a 3 HP finisher that was a dot that we had to weave in with Inquisition and TV, but that's just me.

Making Censure a Holy Power ability instead of an automatic application from Seal of Truth would go a long way in fixing the whole Seal system we have right now. I don't think Seal twisting is or ever was a good mechanic, though---it's just as clumsy as changing weapons in battle and even less attractive.

Of course if Censure did become a Holy Power finisher, I think it would have to do significantly more damage, last longer, or become something you could spread with Hammer of the Righteous, to account for the fact that it would take up 3 Holy Power and an extra GCD. Just my opinion though.

PS: Would the DoT be ranged or melee?
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90 Human Paladin
02/17/2013 04:00 PMPosted by Lobster
The paladin changes combined with changes/nerfs to other classes will make ret more viable in arena, actually. The magic dispel on Sac and the reduced AW cooldown is especially attractive. AW will now always sync with HA, which is a big deal. Our sustained may not change but the gap between cooldowns is now much smaller.

It's good that wings sync with HA, but I'm torn on HA anyways. Everytime I take HA and use it with wings I'm promptly CC'd for 12-15 secs, then I'm back to doing 0 damage. At least with DP I can get Seal of Casino procs that can be used for both damage or healing throughout the fight. Either way, sustained dps is total trash and nothing in the patch is fixing it.

As for the sac change, I like it but is it usable while stunned/silenced? If not, it will do nothing to help me break poly on my healer while i'm sitting in a deep or blanketed on cooldown. :(
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
Stop misreading the tool tip. It does not increase the damage of Templar's Verdict. It adds an attack called Justice that hits for 125% weapon damage as Holy. I've had it crit for 97k(Cool downs popped, in PvP gear). Our damage in PvP will be fine.

As for seal twisting possibly being a 2-3k(very very minor) increase...so what?

Agreed. 2-3k on 130k baseline output really isn't much.
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