what blizz should do to mm

90 Night Elf Hunter
5080
change mastery into armor piercing.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
18290
What they could do is make Marksman's mastery scale better to a point where it's better to have mastery over haste so stat priority is in line with Beast Mastery and Survival.

It's at that point where it does better single target than survival, and better AoE than beast mastery, but most hunters will just take BM/Surv and switch accordingly as there's not real benefit for taking Marks over either of them.

Perhaps on a fight with half AoE and half single target is where marks would shine, but then we fall into the stat priority thing, and no one likes reforging every time they change specs.

Maybe even allow marksman hunters to "sacrifice" their pet like a warlock would make it even more desirable on fights where pets are moot (coughWillcough). Though that's another story.

Just my $0.02
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90 Night Elf Hunter
13525
What they could do is make Marksman's mastery scale better to a point where it's better to have mastery over haste so stat priority is in line with Beast Mastery and Survival.

It's at that point where it does better single target than survival, and better AoE than beast mastery, but most hunters will just take BM/Surv and switch accordingly as there's not real benefit for taking Marks over either of them.

Perhaps on a fight with half AoE and half single target is where marks would shine, but then we fall into the stat priority thing, and no one likes reforging every time they change specs.

Maybe even allow marksman hunters to "sacrifice" their pet like a warlock would make it even more desirable on fights where pets are moot (coughWillcough). Though that's another story.

Just my $0.02


TBH I really wouldn't like it if all 3 hunter specs have the same stat priorities. I like the way mages are where all three specs are very different and completely different spells. If it wasn't for alter time i'd have rerolled already :(

02/14/2013 07:53 PMPosted by Leorina
Maybe even allow marksman hunters to "sacrifice" their pet like a warlock would make it even more desirable on fights where pets are moot (coughWillcough). Though that's another story


want this very much.
Edited by Letan on 2/14/2013 8:12 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Hunter
18290
02/14/2013 08:11 PMPosted by Letan
TBH I really wouldn't like it if all 3 hunter specs have the same stat priorities. I like the way mages are where all three specs are very different and completely different spells. If it wasn't for alter time i'd have rerolled already :(


Totally understandable, though in it's current state you can see why it would be a pain.
Only other way would be to make Marksman's AoE stronger than Survival and it's single target stronger than Beast Mastery. Doesn't even have to be by a whole lot for progression raiders to switch.
But then you'd have the "buff survival, buff bm" threads plaguing the forums.

Marks isn't significantly far behind (apparently), just, there's no reason to take it over BM/Surv other than personal enjoyment.

I feel sorry for those who get harassed for playing Marksman. I've been there and done that with Beast Mastery. I say play what you want, and do it well!
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90 Blood Elf Monk
10730
I just hate arcane shot with a passion as MM, I like the mastery->armor pen idea because it would be one more reason to move to AiS as the filler.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
6465
02/15/2013 03:04 AMPosted by Koneko
I just hate arcane shot with a passion as MM


There is no reason to ever use arcane shot. Ever.
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100 Troll Hunter
16380
02/15/2013 03:04 AMPosted by Koneko
I just hate arcane shot with a passion as MM, I like the mastery->armor pen idea because it would be one more reason to move to AiS as the filler.

1) MM has "Piercing Shot" as a replacement for Arcane Shot. Piercing Shot deals physical damage, ignores 100% armor (exact same damage as Arc Shot, phys damage is for flavor)
2) Piercing Shot triggers Piercing Shots similar to the other abilities.
3) Piercing Shot also causes your next Aimed Shot or Wild Quiver to ignore X% armor. Stacks up to 5 times. (not the X, just the number of abilities affected).
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90 Pandaren Hunter
14925
02/14/2013 07:53 PMPosted by Leorina
What they could do is make Marksman's mastery scale better to a point where it's better to have mastery over haste so stat priority is in line with Beast Mastery and Survival.


As much as I'd like this from a player's perspective, I have to disagree from a design perspective. In my mind, the #2 legitimate complaint that I see about Hunters is that the specs are too similar. As it stands now, MM has a sufficiently different playstyle than the other two specs and encourages you to approach gear differently than the other two specs. BM and SV play similarly and gear similarly already.

02/14/2013 08:39 PMPosted by Leorina
But then you'd have the "buff survival, buff bm" threads plaguing the forums.


Just like we had the "hardcore fanboy" BM fans in Cata, we've got the "hardcore fanboy" MM fans now. What's never going to change is that most progression raiders are going to play the best spec for each fight, and the most vocal people are going to lobby for their favorite spec to be on top for all fights.

Posted by Leorina
Maybe even allow marksman hunters to "sacrifice" their pet like a warlock would make it even more desirable on fights where pets are moot (coughWillcough). Though that's another story

want this very much.


Do not want for several reasons, the most important being that it'd either be mandatory or ignored.
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100 Troll Hunter
16380
02/15/2013 06:33 AMPosted by Adarant
As much as I'd like this from a player's perspective, I have to disagree from a design perspective.

On that note, Crit should be devauled for either BM or SV, in favor of Haste. This would make it so:
Spec A: Crit & Mastery
Spec B: Crit & Haste
Spec C: Mastery & Haste

Based on the current setup, SV would be the most likely candidate for Spec C. MM is already different (not to mention Steady Focus mechanic), and BM has its Focus Fire/Frenzy mechanic for haste.

As a start, if I recall right, SV's DOTs to not scale from Haste directly (indirectly due to Focus regen, but all of SV's DOTs are CD based, or are always up due to Serpent Spread/Cobra Shot with minimal Focus cost). Slap a passive on SV that makes Exp Shot (& Trap?), Black Arrow and Serpent Sting scale similar to caster DOTs from Haste. Getting extra ticks will rise the value of Haste, and since Mastery also impacts the DOT damage, Crit would be the odd man out (possibly).

Just casually looking at, it would seem to me that the more Mastery you have, the more Haste is worth, and the more Haste you have, the more you get out of your Mastery.

On the plus side, it adds a little impact power to ExpS, since either the DOTs tick faster, or there is more or them, and since they changed it so LNL doesn't munch ticks, that won't be a stumbling block either.

Edit: That really doesn't do anything to MM though....but it does break the synergy between MS/OS BM & SV due to gear sharing. Making it so you can't easily have the best of both worlds, which may make the middle road (MM) a little more appealing.
Edited by Verdash on 2/15/2013 6:52 AM PST
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90 Undead Hunter
9215
i really like that idea verdash
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90 Pandaren Hunter
18290
I guess overall, without overhauling the spec, what they should do is just bring up the damage a bit. It's still good at single target and AoE just not -as- good as BM and Surv respectively.
That way when someone inquires about MM for a specific fight, the response would be "BM (or surv) is somewhat better but you can stick with marks if you prefer it".

Most progression raiders don't really care what spec they play, what pet they need or anything like that. They'll just gravitate towards the highest contributing spec for a particular fight.

On the note of what Verdash said about stat priority, I like what we have now. I don't think any other Agi users go for crit > mastery > haste like we do and, if your co-raiders are anything like mine, they seem to pass on gear that is more suited towards others.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
As Leorina stated and I've been pointing out for awhile now.

The damage between Marks and the other specs isn't THAT big. It's a matter of Marks just barely edging out Survival on single target while having much worse AoE power and no multi target power for other non AoE fights like Gara'jal, Stone Guard, and Garalon. And even when comparing it with Beast, Marks is lagging behind Beast a fair bit on single target despite having stronger AoE damage output.

Marks isn't specialized better like Survival or Beast are and doesn't share stat priorities so it's a no brainer for raiders to float between Survival and Beast to get the best of everything available without having to adjust for Haste breakpoints and changing stat priorities.

Marks needs a damage increase to be brought just under Beast's single target power, instead of a decently wide gap, and a playstyle niche it could provide. If Beast is the single target and burst spec, Survival is the AoE and multi target spec, then Marks needs something to bring it up as a spec worth having in your line up.

I brought up giving Marks cleaving power for some PvE spec differentiation. Someone made a rough suggestion of giving Chimera a cleave component so that Marks could deal damage to two close targets at once and maintain Serpent Sting on both.

"Chimera Shot: Instantly fire two projectiles, dealing 210% weapon nature damage + RAP, refreshing the duration of your Serpent Sting and healing you for 3% of your health.

When Chimera Shot deals damage, it will deal damage to a secondary target equal to the damage dealt to the primary target and refresh Serpent Sting. The second projectile will deal no damage to the primary target."
Edited by Bullettime on 2/15/2013 5:05 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Hunter
2000
What about simly lowering the cooldown of chimera shot to 6 sec? This would bring it in line with bm and sv's signature abilities KC and ES. It would offer MM a marginal dps increase, while also consuming more focus. This would lead to a decrease in AS spamming that so many of us seem to hate. Additionally increased usage of steady shot willresult in more free Aimed Sot procs leading to another small increase in damage.

It may not be a fix-all, but i feel like its a small tweek that could begin to alleviate a lot of the complants i hear from MM on these forums.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
What about simly lowering the cooldown of chimera shot to 6 sec? This would bring it in line with bm and sv's signature abilities KC and ES. It would offer MM a marginal dps increase, while also consuming more focus. This would lead to a decrease in AS spamming that so many of us seem to hate. Additionally increased usage of steady shot willresult in more free Aimed Sot procs leading to another small increase in damage.

It may not be a fix-all, but i feel like its a small tweek that could begin to alleviate a lot of the complants i hear from MM on these forums.

It has the longer cooldown because it does more damage than either Kill Command or Explosive Shot to justify it. Putting it on a 6 second cooldown would help PvE but would have PvP implications.
Edited by Bullettime on 2/16/2013 2:50 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Hunter
2000
I don't claim to have a large amount of PvP experience, especially where rated arena is concerned. However from what i've gathered through forums here and at skill-capped I think its generally accepted that this season is about cc and burst damage. Would not then a cd decrease be more desirable when compared to a straight damage increase somewhere else?
Still, I'll defer to your judgement on this point, as my own understanding of the subject is rather narrow and predominantly second-hand.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
I don't claim to have a large amount of PvP experience, especially where rated arena is concerned. However from what i've gathered through forums here and at skill-capped I think its generally accepted that this season is about cc and burst damage. Would not then a cd decrease be more desirable when compared to a straight damage increase somewhere else?
Still, I'll defer to your judgement on this point, as my own understanding of the subject is rather narrow and predominantly second-hand.


While high burst is great this season, Marks has a desirable trait in being a gatling gun, making it strong in control teams as it's less cooldown reliant for its kills. It can consistent put out respectable pressure while mobile.

Marks is just being overshadowed by Beast due to Beast's synergy with Arms and Feral in the famous KFC and junglecleave compositions which are basically cheese comps. Marks is harder to play but it's still a competitive PvP spec.
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MM has always been my favorite spec for hunters, but right now, I've been finding at the low levels of haste that I am stuck at due to lack of progression, MM is very far back on single target, maybe with 5.2 and that aimed shot cast reduction it could be a little less haste dependent.

One of the big things I really love about MM is the on-demand burst it can provide for things like the elegon sparks. I often spammed steady shot (capping focus, but getting sparks killed > dps meters) at elegon until I had an instant aimed and just used the proc to take a spark to 50% and mop it up with a CS and a quick arcane.

A quick fix to up MMs AoE could be to either just boost the bombardment bonus damage, or make it so that Multi-shot can do piercing shots. For both AoE and single, possibly make the mastery do more damage.

If Blizz ever decided to do a revamp of the spec, I would be infavor of it going completely physical with an armor bypass mechanic like warriors.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
10730
02/15/2013 04:52 AMPosted by Cheetara
I just hate arcane shot with a passion as MM


There is no reason to ever use arcane shot. Ever.


Yes, doing more damage is not a reason at all.
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