2 and 3 Raid Healers [10m]

90 Night Elf Priest
7775
Hey, all,

I'm looking to get some feedback on 10m raiding when various encounters require 2 or 3 healers. I was previously a Shadow Priest for my raiding guild, but after reorganizing, I've switched to healing too. However, due to some encounters requiring 2 or 3 healers, I've been asked to switch to Shadow for fights that require only 2 healers. This is for normal and heroic modes.

I'm sure I'm not alone in this predicament. I think most heroic fights require 3 healers, so I'm leaning towards optimizing my gear for healing, but then that makes for bad DPS (especially with all the spirit). I typically heal as Discipline, but haste is regarded as one of our lowest priorities, while it's very high for Shadow. I was considering that Holy may be better since it values haste a lot too. Or should I consider a balanced approach? Any thoughts or feedback on this would be appreciated. Thanks.

Niomar
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15510
For normals I would optimize based on w/e I did more (healing or dps) and then just make do the best I can on the fights where I switch. This is particularly true if you're mostly a dpser and sometimes a healer. If your other healers are good enough to two heal most things, then they don't really need a third healer they need 2.5, so if you're not totally awesome it's not a huge deal.

That said once you get into heroics you have to be a bit pickier. I would strongly advise building up two sets of gear so that you can reforge/gem/enchant them differently. I don't have much experience this tier in heroics, it's been tougher getting a group together than expected, but I would guess that you don't three too many fights on heroic. Given the dps requirements of normal modes, I'm guessing on heroic they're even worse so you're going to bring the minimum number of healers so that you have enough dps to meet enrage timers.
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90 Night Elf Priest
7775
Two sets of gear isn't the solution. Yes, that's ultimately the goal, but when you're doing progression, you're still getting gear with everyone else and it's going to take twice as long (vs. one set of gear). You typically don't get two sets of gear until encounters are on farm status and by then, they're easy enough that it doesn't really matter. You still need a solution until then.

Niomar
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14480
If you're pushing progression, it's generally better dps that will help most.

That being said, you may be required to redo your gear based on the needs of your current brickwall boss. In fact, as your strategy changes, you might need to redo it several times. In a row.

If expense is an issue, you should work something out with your guild.
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90 Draenei Shaman
12770
Optimize for whatever fight you're currently working on in progression. End of story.

If your epeen can't handle the hit it takes for being "non-optimally geared" for farm content, then choke back the cost of reforging between fights.

(I ran Disc/shadow through all of Cata)
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11780
If you're pushing progression, it's generally better dps that will help most.

That being said, you may be required to redo your gear based on the needs of your current brickwall boss. In fact, as your strategy changes, you might need to redo it several times. In a row.

If expense is an issue, you should work something out with your guild.


This! When I raided on my druid in DS, I was resto/boomkin and only went resto on heroic fights that required 3 healers but my gear was optimized for boomkin. During breaks I'd hearth and change my reforging and any gems that needed to be swapped (this may be easier now if someone has the yak mount with the reforger!) and ended up spending several hundred gold each change I had to do. The GM offered gold from the guild bank to cover the cost though, but I never accepted it :P But it can get expensive, especially on progression nights.

I always optimized based on the role I was for that specific fight.
Edited by Veroicone on 2/20/2013 12:19 PM PST
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90 Human Priest
13360
I think because how stats are weighted differently among priest specs, it is generally a bad idea to balance the gear for both healing and dpsing. You'd be bad at both. Because how differently Spirit would be treated, it is even harder to share gear between dps and healing specs, even you'd eat the cost of regemming/reforging/reenchanting.

I think you need to pick one role with higher priority based on your raid team. And, consider using lower ilvl gear for your secondary spec to minimize sharing gear that needs to be redone when changing specs.
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90 Pandaren Priest
12925
Most 10H encounters can and should be 2 healed if at all possible. There are only a few this tier where running only 2 healers is going to cause more problems than solutions. Several people tend to run 3 healers on encounters which can be 2 healed, with one operating as a DPS/healer hybrid. This is common with specs that have DPS to heal methods available. This is typically inferior to manning up, 2 healing and bringing another DPS though.

To answer your question, if you're frequently playing as a DPS on 2 heal encounters and the "third healer" on 3 heal encounters your best bet is to optimize for DPS. This doesn't mean run terrible setups for healing on 3 heal encounters. It just means your focus should be on gearing for DPS as a priority. If you get brickwalled on an encounter that really tests healing you can always tweak your setup specifically for that encounter.
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90 Goblin Shaman
8435
I think because how stats are weighted differently among priest specs, it is generally a bad idea to balance the gear for both healing and dpsing. You'd be bad at both. Because how differently Spirit would be treated, it is even harder to share gear between dps and healing specs, even you'd eat the cost of regemming/reforging/reenchanting.

I think you need to pick one role with higher priority based on your raid team. And, consider using lower ilvl gear for your secondary spec to minimize sharing gear that needs to be redone when changing specs.


Pretty much how I've been doing it on my priest.

Any time I replace a lower ilvl piece for my disc spec with a higher one- I keep the old piece and reforge/regem/rechant it towards shadow (I don't go shadow often enough to NEED a full raid set- obviously non tier bonus stuff).

Basically I "recycle".
Edited by Jujubiju on 2/20/2013 3:25 PM PST
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90 Troll Priest
9550
Heya - just through I'd throw in some input here for ya, Niomar.

Firstly, I wanted to add in to Volios' post, there are three fights that we three heal on heroic 10 man this tier, Lei Shi, Tsulong, and Grand Empress (if you four heal it... you are silly)... And 2 heal the rest. However I will say that it depends on your group. If you have a group that constantly takes unnecessary damage; you may consider 3 healing if you are hitting a brick wall.

I also would like to throw in that holy isn't as strong as disc this tier, especially in a 10 man. People can argue on Tsulong, but on 10 man as a disc priest you should be doing the primary healing in the night phases and letting the other healers (resto shamans are stupidly strong) heal him up by sniping in the day phase. That doesn't mean don't heal him in day phase ;p but I think as Holy it wouldn't be as effective as disc on the fight unless you can play it at an exceptional level.

As far as the shadow -> healing thing, the best advice is just to reforge on a fight to fight basis. I wouldn't hinder my raid group just to gem/enchant just for my offspec. However I will say that disc priests are the strongest healers as of now, and if you are progressing on heroics in the next few weeks, try talking to your other heals and see if they have / are willing to work on a dps spec. Two healing a fight isn't fun without a disc priest.

Good Luck!
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90 Pandaren Priest
15365
You don't need a completely separate set to keep both functional, just keep some old pieces around as alternates. Especially any that drastically benefit one spec like haste/crit or spirit/mastery. Dropping a few ilvl isn't a big deal if you can get stats to line up without neutering either item set.

You have to reforge by hand instead of clicking a button in reforgelite. *That* is the biggest difference. You have to look at every item in your bags, and see what can be reforged one way or another, and maybe a little gem-swapping. Even with blind trial and error, I've been able to cap hit & haste and usually with less than 10 excess points on either, and still keeping plenty of spirit and mastery for healing sets. It's all about having a few spares to swap around, and knowing what numbers you have to play with.
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90 Human Priest
15890
H Stoneguard (2 or 3 depending on the week, first kill was 4 healed)
H Feng 3
H Gar'jal 3
H Spirit Kings 3 (first kill was 2 healed)
H Eleglon 2
H Will 2 (boomkin + spriest = 2 tranquility)

H Bladelord 3
H Garalon 2 (boomkin + spriest = 2 tranquility)
H Windlord 3 (although I mass dispel every other quickening - ouch my mana)

However, we have a couple of really high dps and like to err on the side of "Nzete does a lot of atonement healing".
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For 10 normal, I dps every fight in MSV except Stone Guard (it's 2 healable, but we like to play it safe most of the time and 3 heal it). We're not too far in Heart of Fear, but we 2 heal Imperial Vizier and 2.5 heal Blade Lord (by that, I mean I go Holy and dps for the first phase, and when phase 2 hits, I start healing like a madman). We also 3 heal Garalon, but we haven't downed him yet.
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90 Tauren Druid
13005
Going through heroic progress I'd actually say that most fights need to be 2 healed.

While 3 healing progression helps a bit the big issues with it is it extends the fight length and the required Rdps.

Looking back at our progression the only thing that we 3 healed every time was garajol simply because if something happens and a healer gets screwed with voodoo you still have 2 others to take the totem. But dogs is optional 2-3, feng is much easier 2 healed, SK is better 2 healed/2tanked (the 2 tanks can eat the massive attack on their own, it can be dodged/parried). Elegon is 2 heals, Will is 2 heals unless you have some amazing dps. Bladelord is 2/3 depending on if your 2 healers have enough hots to keep the raid up in p2. I think we 3 healed windlord but the rshaman did pretty much nothing but keep up es/riptide and purge quickening.

But imo the extra dps goes a long way to making the fights easier, and to top that off on the fights where you need to heal with 2 healers that are used to healing heroics you really don't have to do much to help them out besides help heal up big burst damage.

What you should do is simply keep your haste for shadow, stay disc, smite heal, and spirit shell any big damage that's coming that should pretty much be your entire role as the 3rd healer up to heroic empress anyway then you'll have to go full healer gear.
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90 Human Paladin
15450
If I could put together a ret set good enough to dps on our first HM Amber Shaper kill while having to share OS gear with a Prot Paladin, 2 DKS, and 2 Warriors, anybody should be able to do the same. Especially Disc/SP combo where half the gear can be shared.

Doing 22M damage in 15 seconds was a very cathartic experience. Being no. 2 on dps, and beating the other regular dps with my 10+ lower ilvl ret gear is something that I will not let them live down for a long time.

To add insult to injury, I had intel flask on instead of strength. I did not caught on to that fact until I tried to switch to intel flask after the kill, and realized that I was missing one intel flask and both my strength flasks were unused.
Edited by Rasul on 2/23/2013 1:23 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
Eon
11780
H Stone Guards: 3
H Feng: 2
H Garajal: 2
H SK: 2
H Elegon: 2
H Will: 2

H Imperial Vizier: 3
H Blade Lord: 3, but you could probably get away with 2
H Garalon: 3, 2 possible but sketchy
H Wind Lord: 2
H Amber Shaper: 2
H Empress: 3, many guilds use 4 (including my guild)
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90 Worgen Druid
13790
02/20/2013 03:25 PMPosted by Lillèth
I also would like to throw in that holy isn't as strong as disc this tier, especially in a 10 man. People can argue on Tsulong, but on 10 man as a disc priest you should be doing the primary healing in the night phases and letting the other healers (resto shamans are stupidly strong) heal him up by sniping in the day phase.


Guardian Spirit on its own is worth about 0.5 of a healer on Day phase (if 3-healing). I'd be wanting all of the discs in the raid to go holy if possible :)
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90 Troll Priest
8825

H Garajal: 2



Rather curious about 2 healing garajal, my guild attempted that once and it just was a mess. Dealing with the other heals being voodooed and frail soul the adds quickly added up to the point people were getting instant gibbed.
Unless you have a hybrid going in place of healers to do so, I could see this working.
Edited by Trollinhobo on 2/24/2013 7:32 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14910
Mastery isn't that bad for Shadow, and Haste is fine for Disc. When I OSed Shadow I just built an almost entirely different set of gear and reforged to Haste on the pieces that overlapped, and that worked fine.

If you're the swing healer optimize your Shadow spec, for sure.
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90 Pandaren Monk
HC
9450
H Stoneguard (2 or 3 depending on the week, first kill was 4 healed)
H Feng 3
H Gar'jal 3
H Spirit Kings 3 (first kill was 2 healed)
H Eleglon 2
H Will 2 (boomkin + spriest = 2 tranquility)

H Bladelord 3
H Garalon 2 (boomkin + spriest = 2 tranquility)
H Windlord 3 (although I mass dispel every other quickening - ouch my mana)


It depends on your group, since ours has always had a brewmaster (who knew what they were doing) for extra raid healing, this is what we came out to :)

(Heroics)
Stoneguard (3heal first week, 2 heal every week after)
Feng 2 heal
Gar'jal 2 heal (no disc)
Spirit kings 2 heal
Elegon 2 heal
Will 2 heal
vizier 2 heal
Bladelord 2 heal
Garalon 2 heal
Windlord 2 heal
Ambershaper 2/3 heal (holy p dps for rng moments)
Empress 3/4 heal
Protectors 2 heal
tsulong 3 heal
leishi 2 heal
sha ????

:x

Your comp and raid skill really is the key. If you need to compensate then that's what you have to do.
Edited by Advanced on 2/25/2013 6:17 AM PST
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