Fixing Shadow Priests ...The 'S' Word ?

100 Troll Priest
19460


Mindbender is not competitive! Look at where we are now, one of the lowest single target class if not the lowest. Your sayinig swi is our single target fix but only when we can stand there and not move? When does that happen? SWI is not a big buff it anything it is a very small buff! No fights are like patchwork anymore. Movement fights are all that they make now.

It's good for *high* mobility fights. For instance it lines up perfectly with Blade Tempest and unless you're unlucky for every Get Away. Again it's good under certain circumstances, aka a good talent.


That is my point Woaden SP can compete on blade lord period. SP and moonkin are the worst dps on that fight. It doesnt matter if we have a talent for it because the talent fails because our dps is terrible on that fight. They havent done anything to help our problem and bladelord is a perfect example thanks for mentioning it. We can compete with a 3-5% mindblast buff period. If u add in the nerf to mind spike glyph our dps on bosses like this wont change. Wont spike on the move anymore. So 3-5% is not even 3-5% its lower considering the mindspike nerf. And dont get me started on the healing nerf were getting on fights like this too with the renew and pom nerf for tornado dodging phase.
Edited by Rothspriest on 2/18/2013 11:27 PM PST
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90 Troll Priest
11765
02/17/2013 06:05 PMPosted by Eclipsé
Your Mind Flay can now be cast while moving, but no longer snares the target.


UGH stop asking for this
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90 Human Priest
12075
Dammit I'm really trying my best to figure out what you're saying it's just... well it's difficult to read your posts Roth. I'm not trying to be rude, I just honestly can't respond to your last post because, yeah, sorry :(

02/18/2013 11:26 PMPosted by Mindplague
UGH stop asking for this

Don't you know? It's what's left to be begged for since we got a DPS CD. I mean is there mechanically anything else people are asking for in general? I mean if that's our biggest issue then I'm thinking...
IT WILL ALL BE OK IN THE END

Just chill guys.

Please.

Thank You,
~Woaden
Edited by Woaden on 2/19/2013 12:27 AM PST
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90 Human Priest
13775
Dammit I'm really trying my best to figure out what you're saying it's just... well it's difficult to read your posts Roth. I'm not trying to be rude, I just honestly can't respond to your last post because, yeah, sorry :(

UGH stop asking for this

Don't you know? It's what's left to be begged for since we got a DPS CD. I mean is there mechanically anything else people are asking for in general? I mean if that's our biggest issue then I'm thinking...
IT WILL ALL BE OK IN THE END

Just chill guys.

Please.

Thank You,
~Woaden


I'm always weary when it comes to what Blizz does with shadow, These fixes seriously feel like band aids and don't address mechanical issues that we have, like mobile DPS etc.

I'll take your word for it though...
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90 Pandaren Priest
8765
02/18/2013 11:26 PMPosted by Mindplague
Your Mind Flay can now be cast while moving, but no longer snares the target.


UGH stop asking for this


We should be able to smite on the move, right? Right?! Amidoingitrite?!?!

(Iwouldn'tturnthisdown)
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100 Undead Priest
10430
I mean is there mechanically anything else people are asking for in general?


Yeah, we've been asking for Orbs not to suck since before the game launched. This is bigger than any other mechanic we have outside of DoTs.
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90 Undead Priest
15125
Revert PoM Renew and FH nerf for PvE for soloing / leveling reasons
Yes Please! Since PvP off-healing was (allegedly) the problem, not sure why a nerf couldn't have been made that hit PvP without wrecking SPriest heals in the PvE context.
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90 Human Priest
12075
Yeah, we've been asking for Orbs not to suck since before the game launched. This is bigger than any other mechanic we have outside of DoTs.

How do SOs suck?


I'm always weary when it comes to what Blizz does with shadow, These fixes seriously feel like band aids and don't address mechanical issues that we have, like mobile DPS etc.

I'll take your word for it though...

It's OK to be cautious , but there needs to be some basis grounded in fact where the doubt lies. True, we're generally weak on the move, but that will be improved with T15 2pc as SW:P spam will net more overall damage.

That is one area that has been improved at least for this Tier, which gives us another 6 months or so to look down the line for what our next challenge will be.
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90 Human Priest
13775

How do SOs suck?


I think most believe Shadow orbs suck or aren't exciting because their generation is so bland and boring.

The only way to make it more dynamic is to spec DI. Their influence on our gameplay isn't very exciting either, they act as a cooldown for DP more than anything else (and a cool visual effect).

Sure, in 5.2 we are getting a reworked insanity which will make Orbs slightly more interesting.

(Excuse me if this is rambling, just woke up and still half asleep.)
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90 Undead Priest
0
People need to stop suggesting moving mind flay. I'm as bitter about hunters and warlocks as everyone else, but the dev team has made it clear that if they had the freedom to go redesign everything pretty much all cast-while-moving effects would go away. They're unlikely to add more.


Still, Shadow's movement is pretty bad, we need something to help with movement fights.

The only things we have are ticking DoTs (lackluster) and spammable SW:P, which doesn't hit very hard. If they don't want to let us cast Mind Flay while on the move, then they should at least revert the Shadowy Apparitions change and once again tie it to movement instead of critical strike.


Our movement dps isn't so good, but what do other ranged classes have? I play a resto / balance druid and all my boomkin spec has is moonfire spam with starsurge procs. That's not much different than swp spam with divine insight procs.

I actually have sort of a crazy idea. Blizz should make Penance a priest wide spell. Then shadow can glyph it and cast it on the move. Whenver I'm playing disc I always wonder why I don't have Penance as shadow because it's just awesome for dps.
Edited by Jôhnny on 2/19/2013 11:39 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Priest
10270
Other classes have superior damage on the move. Moonkin is probably last next to us. Mages have scorch, but they're being nerfed HARD in that regard. Locks, ele shams, and hunters have 100% damage on the move with extremely minimal penalty.

Either nerf the latter three or buff the former three. This is not an area where a disparity is fair, like burst aoe multidotting.
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90 Human Priest
12075
02/19/2013 11:37 AMPosted by Jôhnny
I actually have sort of a crazy idea. Blizz should make Penance a priest wide spell. Then shadow can glyph it and cast it on the move. Whenver I'm playing disc I always wonder why I don't have Penance as shadow because it's just awesome for dps.

Then we can give Holy Shadowform and Disc Mind Flay!


02/19/2013 11:01 AMPosted by Bunzato
I think most believe Shadow orbs suck or aren't exciting because their generation is so bland and boring.

Yeah, but that's just resource management. We're more like Ret's Holy Power than any other resource (imo). They have 3 generators, we have 2. They have 2 Holy Power outlets, we have 2 SO outlets.

It's a new resource for us, but the mechanics of it have been in game for some time in a very similar form. It drives some good decision making (especially in PvP) at best, at worst it's a metered burst resource that can be 'stored' giving us more flexibility in how we deal damage.

If you really have an issue with SOs, well, imo you're just reaching to find something to complain about. We go through this every content Patch and x-pac it seems. We're seeing changes and everyone goes "OMFG GC IS NERFING US BLIZZ SUX" like things haven't been steadily improving since BC.

And frankly the Devs have gotten steadily better at addressing Shadow Priest issues over the years. I'm happy with this, as skeptical as I may be sometimes.
Edited by Woaden on 2/19/2013 12:45 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Priest
8765
02/19/2013 12:33 PMPosted by Woaden
[quote="79226008649"]I actually have sort of a crazy idea. Blizz should make Penance a priest wide spell. Then shadow can glyph it and cast it on the move. Whenver I'm playing disc I always wonder why I don't have Penance as shadow because it's just awesome for dps.

Then we can give Holy Shadowform and Disc Mind Flay!


HOLD UP! Holy form....you mean i get another 20% to add to my dmg. Let's make this happen. I approve this message on giving shadow penance.

10% on a 2 min cd, 50% on state, 20% with HF up, and (with the new holy form which they will be giving us as shadow will have penance -for the love of god note the sarcasm here) 20% more dmg...i think i'm in love. Oh, but if we're giving penance on the move to another spec, then i must be getting smite on the move too!!! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Srsly, stop with these silly ideas. Casters do NOT need to be mobile cannons...nor do hunters with the removal the range req.
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02/19/2013 02:41 PMPosted by Ponderous
[quote="79226008649"]I actually have sort of a crazy idea. Blizz should make Penance a priest wide spell. Then shadow can glyph it and cast it on the move. Whenver I'm playing disc I always wonder why I don't have Penance as shadow because it's just awesome for dps.

Then we can give Holy Shadowform and Disc Mind Flay!


HOLD UP! Holy form....you mean i get another 20% to add to my dmg. Let's make this happen. I approve this message on giving shadow penance.

10% on a 2 min cd, 50% on state, 20% with HF up, and (with the new holy form which they will be giving us as shadow will have penance -for the love of god note the sarcasm here) 20% more dmg...i think i'm in love. Oh, but if we're giving penance on the move to another spec, then i must be getting smite on the move too!!! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Srsly, stop with these silly ideas. Casters do NOT need to be mobile cannons...nor do hunters with the removal the range req.


If that's the case, then they need to balance encounters around the model that ranged dps will do very little dps while moving and remove the mobility of Locks, Elemental, and Hunters. Because the fact that those three class/specs are highly mobile but Balance, Shadow, Mages (post-Scorch nerf) are crippled by movement, you got an imbalance that doesn't really make sense and causes some problems when you have encounters with high mobility. As long as mobile dps matters, Shadows are in the worst position on any fight with movement, except maybe Boomkins.

Personally, if they designed encounters while keeping in mind that ranged specs put out little dps on the move, then I wouldn't mind if they just removed Unleashed Lightning. I'd free up a glyph slot on my Shaman and remove that annoying and punitive cast time reduction on Lightning Bolt that makes the spec way too sluggish for my liking, and I wouldn't mind that without the glyph, my dps plummets by an unbelievable amount.
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90 Human Priest
12075
Hunters are physical DPS, personally I agree with their design choice they should have freedom of movement.
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90 Human Priest
12075
OH WAIT DID I MENTION THE 5% BUFF TO SHADOWFORM DAMAGE?!?!

I told you all to stop worrying.
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90 Draenei Priest
6645
Don't you know? It's what's left to be begged for since we got a DPS CD. I mean is there mechanically anything else people are asking for in general? I mean if that's our biggest issue then I'm thinking...IT WILL ALL BE OK IN THE ENDJust chill guys.Please.Thank You,~Woaden


Well, firstly using words like 'begging' makes me want to beat you viciously with your own lifebar, because thats loaded as hell.

It's more like asking for parity with other mobile ranged dps, since fights seem designed mostly around them.

Also if I've learned one thing about Blizzard, is that 'Chill, wait and see' is a good way to be horrible for an entire expansion (ala Warlocks).
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100 Troll Priest
19460
OH WAIT DID I MENTION THE 5% BUFF TO SHADOWFORM DAMAGE?!?!

I told you all to stop worrying.

Actually Woaden you said the buffs we got(mindblast and new insanity) were going to be enough. Blizzard disagreed lol. They still need to nerf tof.
I hope you understood this post if not let me know.
Edited by Rothspriest on 2/19/2013 6:07 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Priest
8765
hunters' mobility was tied to the fact they had to be able to get out of the dead zone to attack. That is completely gone now, so they should have to sit more. imo of course.

02/19/2013 04:52 PMPosted by Flintte
[quote]
Then we can give Holy Shadowform and Disc Mind Flay!


HOLD UP! Holy form....you mean i get another 20% to add to my dmg. Let's make this happen. I approve this message on giving shadow penance.

10% on a 2 min cd, 50% on state, 20% with HF up, and (with the new holy form which they will be giving us as shadow will have penance -for the love of god note the sarcasm here) 20% more dmg...i think i'm in love. Oh, but if we're giving penance on the move to another spec, then i must be getting smite on the move too!!! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Srsly, stop with these silly ideas. Casters do NOT need to be mobile cannons...nor do hunters with the removal the range req.


If that's the case, then they need to balance encounters around the model that ranged dps will do very little dps while moving and remove the mobility of Locks, Elemental, and Hunters. Because the fact that those three class/specs are highly mobile but Balance, Shadow, Mages (post-Scorch nerf) are crippled by movement, you got an imbalance that doesn't really make sense and causes some problems when you have encounters with high mobility. As long as mobile dps matters, Shadows are in the worst position on any fight with movement, except maybe Boomkins.

Personally, if they designed encounters while keeping in mind that ranged specs put out little dps on the move, then I wouldn't mind if they just removed Unleashed Lightning. I'd free up a glyph slot on my Shaman and remove that annoying and punitive cast time reduction on Lightning Bolt that makes the spec way too sluggish for my liking, and I wouldn't mind that without the glyph, my dps plummets by an unbelievable amount.


Same for holy dps (yeah yeah, we won't get into that one) in the terms of mobility. And i accept that I am not mobile. I find that makes my turret dps acceptable as I have a huge glaring weakness. But there IS just too much mobility for casters going on, and that is getting us nerfed harder and harder, so let's try to find another route to shave off some of these nerfs we keep getting slammed with, yes? People whined that shadow had too much mobility ( i don't know how or why ), and we have been nerfed and retooled so we have to hard cast more....no! Not when everyone else is getting more and more freedoms to keep mobile. Classic gave a great model for this, truth. Shadow was a turret, and we accepted that. But so were the other casters. We accepted that melee were going to get to run thru us and break los and piss us off to all holy hell. This is not the case anymore. Specs are having to hard caster more and more, while others are getting freedoms on mobility.

It's not fair, nor is it right. If it's ok for one, then make concessions for others. That does not mean to give a crap load of mobility to the others lacking. It means figure out a way to even it out.
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90 Draenei Priest
6645
OH WAIT DID I MENTION THE 5% BUFF TO SHADOWFORM DAMAGE?!?!

I told you all to stop worrying.


Or how about "Thank you for fighting for the class and eventually getting us a buff?" I promise you, if we had just 'chilled and waited' and not made posts in the class thread like you seem to want, we wouldn't have got it.

Wow Woaden, you've gone from pretty decent and informative to a smug, ALL IN CAPS I TOLD U SO SHUT UP NUBS jerk in the space of one thread.
What happened?
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