Difficult solo content please.

90 Draenei Monk
11285
02/20/2013 05:59 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Speaking personally (I'm not speaking for anyone but myself in this post, I'm just indulging my own curiosity), I'd like to know what you (or anyone else that thinks this is a good idea) had in mind specifically? By which I mean to say, can you describe the kind of content that you think would work well and be fun to play, without over-shadowing group content as the best method of experiencing World of Warcraft or getting items?


The Brawler's guild was great solo content. However, I think its major failing was that it was very heavily gear based. In other words, raiding is required to get past a certain point (Battletron's 80k dps requirement) as opposed to the Brawler's guild being its own thing/skill based. This will also make it obsolete in the future, and not have much longevity as a challenge.

If something that was like the Brawler's guild was made, but had gear scaling similar to challenge mode dungeons, then that would be awesome.
Reply Quote
85 Pandaren Monk
4420
02/20/2013 07:39 PMPosted by Chunk
Thoughts?


I think that sounds like it could be pretty fun. :]


I'm glad. x3 I'm a healer, because I'm abysmal at dps. It's kinda disappointing that I won't be able to do the brawler's guild once I hit 90, so another form of skill-testing would be nice.
Reply Quote
22 Human Warlock
0
The first thing jumps into my mind is the epic weapon questline for hunter during the vanilla wow. It needs some skill other than high item level.
basicly, let players use their skill to pass the content or their gears.
for example,
solo content for a rogue, it will require the rogue to use sap to pass through mobs, pick pocket to get keys to get through doors.
for a warrior, he can shield reflex the attack to kill the mobs, shield wall to pass the heavy damage period.
for a warlock, he can banish or enslave the demons in his way to help him.
for a hunter, he can use trap or kite mobs to pass.
for a mage, he can sheep or become invisible.
for a dk, he can control dead.
for a priest, he can lock the undead or mind control.
for a paladin, he can stun and fear demons.
for a druid, he can choose from different forms to deal with the enemy. etc.

I know it seems not worth to take a long time to design the content only for one class, but more and more people have alts nowadays, and interesting quest or solo content may bring more people to try the new class they didn't try before.

that's why I think it's a good idea to give different class something more special since classes are more and more similar to each other in WOW now.
Reply Quote
90 Human Warrior
17130
I thought the instanced quest that was part of the caster legendary this past expansion was pretty challenging, or at least a step in the right direction in terms of challenging solo content. I do not think such content should be the emphasis of the game obviously, but a little dose of it would be a nice pace of change from farming dailies/waiting for enough people to be on/geared for content.

Possibilities are endless, it only depends how much weight game designers want to give to this part of the game after all the talk about this game being a multiplayer game. But again, there is a ton of alternative to get valor point at top level. If only a few quests were challenging and required more effort, that wouldn't kill the concept.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
17460
02/20/2013 07:40 PMPosted by Miligou
[quote="79224315403"]Speaking personally (I'm not speaking for anyone but myself in this post, I'm just indulging my own curiosity), I'd like to know what you (or anyone else that thinks this is a good idea) had in mind specifically? By which I mean to say, can you describe the kind of content that you think would work well and be fun to play, without over-shadowing group content as the best method of experiencing World of Warcraft or getting items?


Bring back Class questlines where a deep familiarity with the class would be the challenge. I have all classes (6 of them @ 90, the rest @ 85 plus a Alliance 86 druid and a 80 Herald druid - yes, I like druids) but I only like playing 3 of them and only 2 of them Id say I play close to a maximum potential.

If those questlines would be implemented Id never dare to face it with my rogue since I suck when I play him. Or my mage, my lock...

That could have the potential to challenge players and also would be a way to educate players to master their preferable classes.
Edited by Restofarian on 2/20/2013 7:50 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
TFO
9955
Basically, brawlers guild is cool, challenging etc but has two problems

- I dont give the slightest !@#$ about titles or achievements, so interesting transmog gear, or preferably gear commesurate with the level of challenge (ilvl 489 gear in 5.1 for the hardest possible solo content isnt asking very much) would be necessary for me to care about them.

- rank 8 bosses have stupidly high (and stupidly arbitrary) enrage timers, making them basically JUST a gear check. Scale gear for the content and make them reasonably hard, not gear checks.

All good examples of challenging solo content have been taken out of the game. All cool group quests that you could solo for a challenge are gone or nerfed so they're not even slightly challenging. Put em back, know what i mean ;P

Difficult solo content could substitute daily quests for some (like me) who hate daily quests.

P.S get the bots out of BGs holy %^-*, there goes an entire aspect of the game wasted, nobody has fun in normal BGs anymore. Yes, I am using my personal experience as anecdotal evidence for a blanket statement, nbd
Reply Quote
15 Draenei Hunter
5975
Frankly, I would LOVE solo content with gear rewards.
I despise LFR/D with a passion because it never fails to be nothing but drama and flame fest with people always bickering or e-peening their DPS.

In fact, I prefer soloing things to sort of "test my limits" because I am really not a stellar player, and completing things solo that weren't really meant to be solo makes me really feel like I accomplished something.

I support this idea fully.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
17205
Not sure why you guys are asking for solo class quests like what was in vanilla. You do know that class quests are a one time thing right? what happens after you finish them? just going to come right back here and say once again there's not enough challenging solo content after you finish up your questline, and lol at thinking they would make new large scale solo questlines each and every patch so you have something to do once the patch came out then have nothing everyday after.

Solo world bosses? whats the point in wasting dev time when they could just make new world bosses(like they are doing) for groups which they have been meant for since the ones in BC were added. If challenging rares is what you want then thats one thing(and hey guess what 5.2 is adding group rares that can potentially be soloed depending on gear/class), world bosses on the other hand are meant entirely for groups.

I understand not wanting to gimp yourself while questing to play a harder version of the game(like using only greys, no talents, or whatever else), but saying that it's not an option because it's "too much" for you is leaving an entire viable option out of the game for making it more difficult.

This is an mmo for a reason and if that's too difficult to understand as an rpg gamer i can give you a full list of games much more difficult solo wise(that aren't mmos) on various consoles that sate your appetite more than solo wow does.
Edited by Wilhelm on 2/20/2013 8:04 PM PST
Reply Quote
Community Manager
However, it's a different story at max level. I would enjoy the occasional, challenging, max-level, multi-zone, elongated, epic lore, single-player quest.


I should point out that we agree that they're worthwhile occasionally, particularly when they're hooked up to a grandiose purpose. The upcoming Warlock quest for fel-green fire should present a significant challenge. The 5.2 leg of the legendary quest line should also present some nice challenges.

As for bringing loners together? I have a feeling that the Isle of Giants will prompt at least some erstwhile soloers to seek out groups for a bit of the 'ol ultra dino slaying.
Edited by Daxxarri on 2/20/2013 8:04 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
11320

If something that was like the Brawler's guild was made, but had gear scaling similar to challenge mode dungeons, then that would be awesome.


The issue with this imo, is that the skill cap for PvE in this game is low enough that even if you tuned it VERY tight, the best PvE players would still win very quickly, and those that are not skilled in PvE would find it impossible.

I feel like scaled "difficult PvE content" would just be too easy for the intended audience no matter how hard they make it (unless it's impossible or requires way too much RNG).
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
10615
02/20/2013 08:00 PMPosted by Daxxarri
As for bringing loners together? I have a feeling that the Isle of Giants will prompt at least some erstwhile soloers to seek out groups for a bit of the 'ol ultra dino slaying.

Perhaps I'm just reading what I want to in your words (and I apologize if this is the case) but I don't think that looking at this as "we need ways to bring the loners together" is the right way. A better way, in my opinion, would be to think of it as "how can we make difficult content for loners without forcing them into groups?". I understand that this is a MMO, and will always have group-based content at its heart, but I think there is also room for solo content outside old raids and loremaster.
Edited by Karat on 2/20/2013 8:11 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Warrior
6655
02/20/2013 05:59 PMPosted by Daxxarri
More difficult single player content, not just more "Kill this/Gather this" dailies. MMO just means massive multiplayer and online. Nowhere it say that a requirement is that the majority of content require multiple players just to experience.


Speaking personally (I'm not speaking for anyone but myself in this post, I'm just indulging my own curiosity), I'd like to know what you (or anyone else that thinks this is a good idea) had in mind specifically? By which I mean to say, can you describe the kind of content that you think would work well and be fun to play, without over-shadowing group content as the best method of experiencing World of Warcraft or getting items?

I'll freely admit that "challenging solo content" isn't a great time investment for developers in terms of what will benefit the most players, and I'd also like to point out that shared experiences are implied by the term "massively multiplayer". Still, that doesn't mean that well conceived solo content doesn't have potential merit. There's more than one sort in World of Warcraft already, though they vary in terms of difficulty and rewards.


I would tend to think, regarding overall hours spent in this game, that people doing things by them self would actually out number the amount of time they spend doing things in groups. I've raided and done 5 mans for 8 years, but I've always felt kind of frustrated in WOW after I've exhausted the avenues of what I can accomplish alone, specifically things I can do alone that are fun and cause me to feel like I'm interacting with the game rather than just doing chores or deliveries with a context that feels mostly tacked on and contrived as filler quests that are obviously just there to give me an excuse to be questing. Not to discount all the weird and obscure NPCs and their quests that makes a world feel more alive. But sometimes it's just obviously nothing more than an excuse to get us to kill 10 animals, with no pay off other than "thanks for doing that, bye".

As of MOP especially, suddenly I can solo all these old raids, and it's really opened my eyes to what we could be doing in this game other than the usual quest content. I love a semi challenging solo raid that still forces me to interact and pay attention to mechanics rather than just tanking and spanking and AOEing as much as I can pull.

I mean, it's an MMO, but we've still had tons of solo content in the form of leveling and questing and gathering over the years, lately I just feel that raid mechanics and heroic boss mechanics are being kind of artificially saved only for group content, when we could have been doing stuff alone that was just as interesting, but we haven't been.

With the new Pandaria rare spawns, it's much more in line with what I'm talking about here, but I would love to go further than that and see something more like solo instances, which I'm getting the vibe already from at times in certain Pandaria quests that take me down into ruins and things to fight what felt like a mini boss of sorts, so I think you're going in the right direction.

I guess in a way you guys are doing that, with the Brawler's Guild and with the upcoming player trials I've heard about. But I want to see more stuff like that over kill X amount of this quest lines.

The Shieldwall reputation story line is really for me the ideal WOW content in my 8 years of playing, and I would love to see more content like that, which not only unlocks a new quest in the story line every couple of days which makes doing dailies more addictive and lucrative, but it has me going back to the world and seeing the places I am familiar with while experiencing new stories that feel very important lore wise.

Not only did I love going back to Teldrassil for a minute, or Dalaran, but I loved the little solo Mogu ruin runs and stuff that had me avoiding traps and having to pay attention to where I was standing while killing a mini boss, stuff like that.

It feels so much more valuable and has a sense of purpose over the majority of questing content I've done over the game's life time.

I feel it's still important to have random off the beaten track characters and story lines too, I don't want to seem like I am criticizing those.
Reply Quote
Community Manager
Perhaps I'm just reading what I want to in your words but I don't think that looking at this as "we need ways to bring the loners together" is the right way. A better way, in my opinion, would be to think of it as "how can we make difficult content for loners without forcing them into groups?".


I was just playing off of what one of the posters in this thread said, that's not how I perceive it. I do think it represents some fun non-instanced group content though.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Warrior
6655
02/20/2013 08:00 PMPosted by Daxxarri
However, it's a different story at max level. I would enjoy the occasional, challenging, max-level, multi-zone, elongated, epic lore, single-player quest.


I should point out that we agree that they're worthwhile occasionally, particularly when they're hooked up to a grandiose purpose. The upcoming Warlock quest for fel-green fire should present a significant challenge. The 5.2 leg of the legendary quest line should also present some nice challenges.

As for bringing loners together? I have a feeling that the Isle of Giants will prompt at least some erstwhile soloers to seek out groups for a bit of the 'ol ultra dino slaying.


I really miss the globe hopping quests of Vanilla, and while I understood the process you guys went through of realizing that kind of stuff was a sacred cow that was ultimately frustrating for the majority of players, I don't understand why you eliminated it completely from the game.

It seems odd we still dont' have one or two quests of that scale still around for the people who want to do them, rather than the way they were forced on everyone. I like having a reason to go out and travel the old places I've been, that's more than just leveling an alt. I want a reason to go back to Teldrassil and Darkshore and Ashenvale and the Stonetalons at level 90, with new stories, phasing, stuff like that.

I wasn't a fan of the way I was forced to instant travel so much in the Shieldwall reputation story line though, I would have liked to have actually had a reason to take the boat to Northrend again and make my way to a place instead of being forced to take a portal or take a ride from an NPC that often ended up making it all feel instanced and compartmentalized.

And I say "forced" because had I chosen not to take the portals and NPC rides, I would have missed out on scripted sequences and NPC dialog.

I'm the type of person who misses the old Vanilla Menethil Harbor run to Ironforge and Stormwind, and would love to see stuff like that remembered in the game, just at times. New stories that have me retracing my footsteps from the old days. Of course, there's always the need to keep in mind the risk of making content like that seem like a rehash, but I think the Shieldwall storyline was a great example of how to avoid that stigma.

The Dragonsoul raid in Dragonblight was the wrong way to go about it, as it seemed to take the place of new content, and it seemed all we had to do for about a year.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
10615
02/20/2013 08:13 PMPosted by Daxxarri
I was just playing off of what one of the posters in this thread said, that's not how I perceive it. I do think it represents some fun non-instanced group content though.

Ah, I see. I apologize for shoving words in your mouth then. I do agree that non-instanced content can be a good bit of fun (grouped or otherwise).
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
7535
want a solo challenge...attack the Sha solo and see how difficult that is.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warlock
6870


Speaking personally (I'm not speaking for anyone but myself in this post, I'm just indulging my own curiosity), I'd like to know what you (or anyone else that thinks this is a good idea) had in mind specifically? By which I mean to say, can you describe the kind of content that you think would work well and be fun to play, without over-shadowing group content as the best method of experiencing World of Warcraft or getting items?

I'll freely admit that "challenging solo content" isn't a great time investment for developers in terms of what will benefit the most players, and I'd also like to point out that shared experiences are implied by the term "massively multiplayer". Still, that doesn't mean that well conceived solo content doesn't have potential merit. There's more than one sort in World of Warcraft already, though they vary in terms of difficulty and rewards.


What about "heroic" versions of the leveling zones at max level, maybe as zone wide scenarios? The content is already just sitting there. No idea how you would implement function/story/rewards, but that's what you nice ladies and gentlemen are hired to do.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warlock
12305
02/20/2013 05:59 PMPosted by Daxxarri
More difficult single player content, not just more "Kill this/Gather this" dailies. MMO just means massive multiplayer and online. Nowhere it say that a requirement is that the majority of content require multiple players just to experience.


Speaking personally (I'm not speaking for anyone but myself in this post, I'm just indulging my own curiosity), I'd like to know what you (or anyone else that thinks this is a good idea) had in mind specifically? By which I mean to say, can you describe the kind of content that you think would work well and be fun to play, without over-shadowing group content as the best method of experiencing World of Warcraft or getting items?

I'll freely admit that "challenging solo content" isn't a great time investment for developers in terms of what will benefit the most players, and I'd also like to point out that shared experiences are implied by the term "massively multiplayer". Still, that doesn't mean that well conceived solo content doesn't have potential merit. There's more than one sort in World of Warcraft already, though they vary in terms of difficulty and rewards.


As a warlock I will appreciate the green fire quests assuming they are not designed to be face rolled through. That being said I am 100% in agreement with the OP.

Something people have argued about with this game for years is the need and/or desire for solo content as well as class specific quest lines. Well, finally the game has one, for one class, no others. Obviously referring to the warlock green fire quest line. But that's just one class and that's not fair to the other classes.

I would LOVE to see every class get one of these class specific quest lines. The kind of thing you do once, get a cool rewards and never do it again. I would also want them to be something that not everyone can manage as well. If tweedle-dee can't be bothered to figure out his way through it the tweedle-dee doesn't get the cool reward at the end.

Yes, tweedle-dee will cry, but you know what? All tweedle-dee has to do is put forth a bit more effort and eventually he will finish it and be a better player for having done so. This is something this game DOES NOT HAVE right now is something for ANYONE to do solo that is challenging to the point that it makes them "man up" and play better. Then these people like tweedle-dee get into a raid guild and eventually get kicked out of the raid roster because they can't manage to play their class.

Difficult solo content is something that would go a long way towards fixing this.

Right now in the current state of the game most everyone will get most everything they want if they simply sit back and wait for the nerf hammer to come passing by. Can't manage current raid content? Wait till the next raid patch when they nerf it and offer higher ilvl gear for valor so you can out gear the content. Can't clear heroic content? Same thing. Having a hard time gearing up? Wait til the next patch so they increase drop rates on old content.

The only aspect of this game that needs for people to actually skill up to succeed is PvP and that is simply due to ratings and the fact that you play against other people. Why is it that only PvP is allowed to remain difficult without some form of nerf? You can nerf PvP for baddies, give them double defensive stats and double damage until they reach top rating. Its the same concept of what the PvE aspect of the game is rightnow.

As to trying to say challenging solo content isn't a good way to spend resources I disagree 100%. No challenging solocontent is the reason all the tweedle-dee's exist in the first place. You can literally level from 1 - 90 spamming a single ability on any class and never die. How does that system promote player skill at higher levels? It doesn't.

Look at console games. Do they nerf their content because people who bought the game can't finish the whole thing easily? No. Do they make games that are purposefully easy to the point of being a complete joke? No. Why does Blizzard?

So many guilds sprout up to raid and die away on my server its not even funny. Even when my server had a population recruitment was a pain the the nuckers. I would have to interview 20+ people just to find a single one that new enough about the content and their class to get a tryout. Out of every 10 tryouts most wouldn't last through their first raid (how hard is it to get out of fire?) and generally the one person that lasts was still subpar. Difficult solo content would go a long ways towards fixing this issue.

But w/e. Blizzard will never do something like that simply because they will worry about upsetting the tweedle-dee's.
Reply Quote
50 Gnome Warlock
765
02/20/2013 07:59 PMPosted by Wilhelm
Not sure why you guys are asking for solo class quests like what was in vanilla. You do know that class quests are a one time thing right?


I don't think we're looking for solo class quests in so much as we're looking for solo class challenges. They wouldn't have to be a "one and done" kind of deal, though the two examples I used were such, but maybe a daily or scaling quest that leads into a daily where the challenge could fluctuate (one day it's a DPS race, another its a survival fight, some days its both, etc).

I'm not saying it's easy to design anything like that, or that it wouldn't take up resources to implement this kind of thing, but I do see it as something worthwhile to do for those of us that want to be able to challenge ourselves outside of heroic raiding (or raiding in general, since only about 500k of the playerbase actually does that these days).
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]