Enough complaining about it, let's fix ret.

Well, one of the problems being that last expansion we had Divine Purpose and Zealotry.

Now we have to choose between them. Seems like a big burst nerf. Why not simply make "Holy Avenger(Zealotry)" baseline again.

Now we can choose-

1 Divine Purpose: More sustained damage with procs

2 Sanctified Wrath: More Burst during burst time

3 Some random talent they fill the slot with

Also, since we aren't gemming strength this season, we're losing a ton of our spellpower. PvP power does nothing for ret heals now.

Last season it was STR STR STR, because of the added bonus that it increased WoGs.

PvP power needs to affect our heals or I may start gemming strength again. (Which it will, according to notes.)


Yeah, the addition of PvP power kind of screwed us in PvP. I hope they add it in because if not we're losing out on the one thing that made us viable in 4.X, our game changing WoGs.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Paladin
19020
02/16/2013 12:43 AMPosted by Asuna
Though I do like the idea of it giving us a bonus on next hit, I think buffing censure would be enough to allow us to waste one GCD on it.


That's just it, with as powerful as Inquisition is, it really doesn't matter what increasing censure would 'allow'. You're going to hit Inquisition, no matter what, every single time you can. And with as powerful as Inquisition is, I don't think of it as a wasted GCD. I do not think to myself, 'Gee, I wish I could have used those 3HP for a TV /sadface'.

I think that for some people it is easy to forget that Inquisition is doing something HUGE for them. There's no instant gratification, though. Neither damage-wise nor aesthetically. I like Woa's idea because, even though Inquisition is it's own reward, you get a bonus for using it. Not a huge one, mind you, but it should be enough to satisfy people. And if applied correctly, it could help with sustained. Also, it could come with a new flashy animation that would satisfy people who want more zazz.

Buffing Censure is also a good choice, but I don't see it being as satisfying. Sure, your overall damage has gone up, but if you didn't have recount or whatever, it wouldn't jump out at you.

I would be all for losing most of my burst. Raiding seems to only be satisfying when CDs are blown, especially with Bloodlust. I go the entire fight waiting for the burn phase. That's not fun. That's not to say that my dps is terrible, but I dread losing the 4pc tier bonus, because it makes things feel more active.
Reply Quote
100 Human Paladin
18135
Quite frankly, "fixing" GoAK (either in smartening its AI, or redesigning it all together) should have been a much higher priority than foolishly tinkering with SoJ. Far as I'm aware, no other pet - permanent or otherwise - has the issues our Guardian does. I've never seen my Shaman's wolves or elementals run off and do some of the stupid things the Guardian has been reported to do, nor any of my DK's minions, nor my Mage's clones.

I've always been disappointed in GoAK's implementation, and I was one of the ones that wanted us to be the Guardian - having said as much on the forums - and was absolutely infuriated when Avatar was announced. But I still think it's the better one to keep baseline, allowing the L75 to be more of a preference towards burst windows, and a five minute CD doesn't seem like it would ever get chosen because of that lengthy down time; you pick a talent, you want to use it, right?


I run with other "temporary pet" classes pretty frequently, and I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen/heard from their players about the ability (Spirit Wolves, Fire/Earth Elemental, Mirror Images, Stampede) glitching up in the past two years. Meanwhile, my PvP partners have learned to tune out the sound of the Derp Angel living up to its nickname (hint: It involves lots of swearing, because usually when you need a 5 minute cooldown you *need* it).

I still feel a sense of resentment every time I pop Avatar on my warrior.

As for the cooldown, I'm not so sure. Nobody in their right mind would take the Guardian with its current inconsistent functionality, but the Heart of the Wild talent has a six minute cooldown and I absolutely love it on my Feral druid. I don't think the cooldown is as big an issue as you think it might be - it depends on what you get for that long cooldown.
Reply Quote
100 Tauren Paladin
11480
Im actually OK with the damage we have, as long as the utility/survival we gain is in proportion to the damage we lose (not being a pure DPS class) right now its not.

Honestly Im so sick of being stuck in a CC of one kind or another and being totally unable to do anything while I just sit there and die if the bubble/trinket is down, I guess this is a PvP concern of mine... since I love both aspects of the game. Id like to be able to use a defensive move while im stuck in a stun/root/fear/silence (sometimes all of thoes are on me at the same time or strung together making me unable to do anything for most of the engagement with the enemy player/players... Can be very frustrating when you watch yourself die while you pound on the keyboard, unable to play at all...

PvE I am mostly happy with the Ret Spec although refreshing Inq all the time IS a hassle and in a way, feels like a bit of a penalty if I dont keep it rolling every 30 seconds... Id like more time on Inq, perhaps extend the effect to 60 seconds? 30 is just too short.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
8235
I will state right off the bat that I'm not a hardcore PvPer, but I've run a bunch of bgs on this character in the past few weeks. I like the fact that when I have my CDs up, I can kill any healer or FC, and they cannot stop me without killing me. I can even bubble a lot of times while CDs are popped and still burn down a healer.

The problem I see with Ret is not damage. It's the weakness of our self-healing, and lack of mobility. I know they're doing something with FoL in 5.2, we'll see if that ups the healing at all. WoG needs a buff, IMO.

But mobility is the biggest flaw. Nearly every other melee class has a long range, (nearly) instant gap-closer.

Warrior: Charge
Rogue: Shadowstep
Druid: Feral Charge (or whatever it's called now)
Monk: Flying Serpent Kick
DK: Death Grip

The Tier 1 mobility talents for Paladins are simply not enough. All they really need to do is bump up the speed increase on all of them. I realize an instant gap-closer + buffed self-heals could become OP, but those are the areas where I see need for improvement.
Reply Quote
We're worried that we're not going to be able to get the new Seal of Justice on PTR in a good place. We still like the goal of giving Ret more damage outside of their long cooldowns, but Censure just brings a lot of benefits that are going to be hard to reproduce in any kind of "build up to burst" mechanic. When faced with decisions like these where the new design isn't a clear win, we think the right decision is to revert the change. It's possible we could buff Seal of Justice (the 5.1 version) to 20% damage from 16% damage, but overall it would still probably not get much use in PvP.
However, we haven't given up on the idea of solving Ret's problems of long cooldowns. We are going to try changing the 4pc PvP set bonus to lowering the cooldown on Avenging Wrath by 1 min. This is a set bonus that has worked out pretty well in PvE and would help Ret keep up pressure more frequently without getting to the point of one-shot abilities.


Seems like they're trying to fix our PvP issues still, that's good news!

But what about PvE? D:
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
5130
Personally I'd like to see Inquisition revamped. It's just not a fun mechanic.
Edited by Dreyden on 2/16/2013 8:23 PM PST
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Paladin
19020
Thanks for editing that, it was making my head hurt :P
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
13420
02/16/2013 08:15 PMPosted by Dreyden
Personally I'd like to see Inquisition revamped. It's just not a fun mechanic.


I feel it's just fine, most classes have something like it, a GCD to buff yourself (slice and dice for example).

Wait until next patch, inquisition with our tier bonuses will be absolutely phenomenal.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Paladin
21020
02/16/2013 11:47 PMPosted by Akira
Wait until next patch, inquisition with our tier bonuses will be absolutely phenomenal.

http://i.imgur.com/J3rXARb.jpg
and im far from BiS
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Paladin
7695
02/16/2013 08:15 PMPosted by Dreyden
Personally I'd like to see Inquisition revamped. It's just not a fun mechanic.


I can see it being turned into some form of Debuff/Dot that deals damage over time, and increases the damage the target takes by you by say 10% and increases your crit % on them by 10%, giving it sort of the feel like Hunter's Mark. And say it refreshes every time you use Templar's Verdict on them. Have it have say a 15 yard range, and change the glyph to adding a 50% slow if it is used with 3 holy power.

Say it lasts 18 seconds, and deals a small amount of damage(that is multiplied by amount of holy power spent) and the amount of damage buff you do is 3%/6%/10% as wel as crit 3%/6%/10%. Making you want to apply it with 3 holy power.
Edited by Jakosta on 2/17/2013 1:13 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
13420
02/17/2013 12:32 AMPosted by Thermadin
Wait until next patch, inquisition with our tier bonuses will be absolutely phenomenal.

http://i.imgur.com/J3rXARb.jpg
and im far from BiS


Exactly. Granted it was better before mastery was nerfed but inquisition is still a massive part of our damage, even more so with the 10% crit on it now.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
13420
I've heard rumors of a possible buff to 2h weapon specialization, but no source. Has anyone else seen this?

Maybe a blue has something to say? :o
Reply Quote
92 Human Paladin
7880
I agree keeping Inquisition up is a chore. I'd like to see Holy Power work like a SPriest orbs and not decay. On my SPriest, I always start each boss with 3 orbs. At least I could start a fight with some HP and shorten the ramp up.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11030
Make Inquistion cost no Holy Power, sustain problem fixed...
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
13420
Inquisition is NOT our problem. Our lack of sustained damage outside of our CDs is.

And more patch updates released, looking over on other classes: baseline % damage increases, and ret gets....OMG WE GET SHORTER CD ON WINGS! It's almost as if they really have no idea what they're doing. We dont want ret to be all about our CDs, I want to be able to deal damage outside of the 20 seconds that my CDs are active. Why cant they see that? A simple buff to Sheath of light or censure, or even perhaps bringing up CS and TV damage, would change everything. We would be competitive DPS again if they just brought 2h weapon spec back to where it was before.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
7900
Inquisition is NOT our problem. Our lack of sustained damage outside of our CDs is.

And more patch updates released, looking over on other classes: baseline % damage increases, and ret gets....OMG WE GET SHORTER CD ON WINGS! It's almost as if they really have no idea what they're doing. We dont want ret to be all about our CDs, I want to be able to deal damage outside of the 20 seconds that my CDs are active. Why cant they see that? A simple buff to Sheath of light or censure, or even perhaps bringing up CS and TV damage, would change everything. We would be competitive DPS again if they just brought 2h weapon spec back to where it was before.


I agree with most of this. Our burst is already insane. I want to be able to kill something just as effectively in a 5man group as I would a 25 man LFG.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
2795
Before we gripe about how 2min wings isn't good enough, lets see how it pans out within the first month out of release...or even better the end of PTR testing. Think about it, we're basically getting the current 4pc for free...that's HUGE if you ask me.

It looks like you've got decent haste Akira...do you really have that much time between CDs on boss fights? I mean, I've usually got a button to press within 1-2 seconds after pressing another...especially if I'm blowing GCDs on defensive shields/hands/auras (talking PvE here).

I like that they made our burst more available, thus giving us a sustained dps boost(how much yet..that has yet to be seen).

If it turns out we need more sustained dps, then I'd like to see something along the lines of having some unique buff to whatever seal we have active while Inq is up...for instance:

Inquisition
1 Holy Power
Instant cast Range 40yards
Consumes up to 3 Holy Power to increase your Holy Damage by 30% and critical strike chance by 10% for 10sec per charge of Holy power spent (up to 3 charges). In addition, a blanket of holy light surrounds up to 5 allies and absorbs X% of total damage taken while Inquisition is active. The absorbed damage is channeled into your active seal, granting the seal an additional effect:

SoJ: successful judgements on targets with full stacks of justice have X% chance to knock down the target for X seconds

SoT: allows censure to stack up to 10 (versus the current 5 stack)

SoR: allows censure to be applied to all targets within 8 yards but only stacks up to 3.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
13420
Before we gripe about how 2min wings isn't good enough, lets see how it pans out within the first month out of release...or even better the end of PTR testing. Think about it, we're basically getting the current 4pc for free...that's HUGE if you ask me.

It looks like you've got decent haste Akira...do you really have that much time between CDs on boss fights? I mean, I've usually got a button to press within 1-2 seconds after pressing another...especially if I'm blowing GCDs on defensive shields/hands/auras (talking PvE here).

I like that they made our burst more available, thus giving us a sustained dps boost(how much yet..that has yet to be seen).

If it turns out we need more sustained dps, then I'd like to see something along the lines of having some unique buff to whatever seal we have active while Inq is up...for instance:

Inquisition
1 Holy Power
Instant cast Range 40yards
Consumes up to 3 Holy Power to increase your Holy Damage by 30% and critical strike chance by 10% for 10sec per charge of Holy power spent (up to 3 charges). In addition, a blanket of holy light surrounds up to 5 allies and absorbs X% of total damage taken while Inquisition is active. The absorbed damage is channeled into your active seal, granting the seal an additional effect:

SoJ: successful judgements on targets with full stacks of justice have X% chance to knock down the target for X seconds

SoT: allows censure to stack up to 10 (versus the current 5 stack)

SoR: allows censure to be applied to all targets within 8 yards but only stacks up to 3.


While I do agree that the shorter CD is nice, I do NOT think that it is going to fix our issues. Because as stated, CDs are not what we're complaining about. I would accept longer CDs for more sustained damage outside of them. I would gladly give up one of my defensive abilities for more damage outside of wings.

That is a nifty idea for inquisition but I think it may be a tad too much. It would make us almost too viable in RBGs and arenas with it, on top of our burst damage. Though the 10 stacks of censure would help a bit, I dont think many rets would enjoy a longer ramp up time but I dont mind it.

Preferably a 3-5% buff to censure and a 5-10% buff to sheath of light would almost be enough. Bringing up CS's damage to 130% of weapon damage on top of that would make us golden. Sure, that would effect our burst damage, but not enough to make us scarier than mages or warriors. It would only really benefit on the longer PvE fights.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]