Prot Paladins in RBGs

90 Human Paladin
0
I've been posting this around a couple boards already trying to draw more attention to the issues, I've been met with very positive support but of course no blue post.

Prot paladins still lack the utility necessary to make them desirable in RBGs. It seems that blizzard is completely ignoring us. The Grand Crusader changes are a pvp utility (silence and daze) nerf. Its unnecessary in pve and hurts pvp, so why do it? Furthermore, why is it prot paladins are so completely ignored? I know Ghostcrawler just wants us all to go holy but sheesh.

Good changes that would make a pally tank actually get invited to RBGs:

  • Make emancipation baseline for prot just as it is for ret
  • If emancipation is a no no then something similar to death's advance would be great
  • Give us a talent or spell that makes us unmovable, name it something like Stalwart Defender its easy and would provide massive benefit
  • Not that damage is important but since Shield Slam is getting it's damage buffed so should shield of the righteous
  • Make it so not all our defensives are locked out by blanket silences


  • I could go on but I'm a tad tired so I'll leave it at that for tonight, its pretty clear that there is a lot of room for improvement in a lot of areas. You guys are welcome to post your own ideas, thoughts, and opinions.
    Edited by Strîke on 2/13/2013 11:06 PM PST
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    90 Human Paladin
    0
    Not that damage is important but since Shield Slam is getting it's damage buffed so should shield of the righteous


    are not the same ability.

    The Grand Crusader changes are a pvp utility (silence and daze) nerf. Its unnecessary in pve and hurts pvp, so why do it? Furthermore, why is it prot paladins are so completely ignored? I know Ghostcrawler just wants us all to go holy but sheesh.


    say it with me

    "Nobody cares about pvp". We've hadd enough of our stuff nerfed because of pvp. Enjoy the shoe being on the other foot.

    In closing, they don't want nor care about tanks in pvp


    You're literally the only person out of about 20 so far across a few boards to bash this. Shield Slam and Shield of the Righteous are not the same ability but Warriors already do farm more damage in pvp than we do so they might as well boost the base damage and lower the attack power ratio if necessary to make us on par, it isn't that hard nor is it complicated.

    Warriors pull fine dps and tank without issue. Anyhow, why do you even post this garbage? This is about fixing prot paladins a spec that has been ignored since RBGs first began, not nerfing your beloved handicapped second wind warrior.
    Edited by Strîke on 2/13/2013 11:19 PM PST
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    90 Night Elf Death Knight
    12825
    02/13/2013 11:05 PMPosted by Strîke
    Prot paladins still lack the utility necessary to make them desirable in RBGs


    Because the changes needed will make the OP in PvE.

    02/13/2013 11:05 PMPosted by Strîke
    The Grand Crusader changes are a pvp utility (silence and daze) nerf.


    It's a nerf to haste stacking, get your facts straight.

    02/13/2013 11:05 PMPosted by Strîke
    Furthermore, why is it prot paladins are so completely ignored?


    They are getting changes, that are bringing us into balance with the other tanks. FOR PvE.

    02/13/2013 11:05 PMPosted by Strîke
    I know Ghostcrawler just wants us all to go holy but sheesh.


    Speculation.

    02/13/2013 11:05 PMPosted by Strîke
    Make emancipation baseline for prot just as it is for ret


    I can dig that. I guess.

    02/13/2013 11:05 PMPosted by Strîke
    If emancipation is a no no then something similar to death's advance would be great


    Speed of Light and the rest of the lvl 15 talents.

    02/13/2013 11:05 PMPosted by Strîke
    Give us a talent or spell that makes us unmovable, name it something like Stalwart Defender its easy and would provide massive benefit


    Like the frost DK cooldown? I'm not sure where you would put it, but I don't think that should be baseline.

    02/13/2013 11:05 PMPosted by Strîke
    Not that damage is important but since Shield Slam is getting it's damage buffed so should shield of the righteous


    Not a warrior. Just because A gets a buff doesn't mean B gets a buff.

    02/13/2013 11:05 PMPosted by Strîke
    Make it so not all our defensives are locked out by blanket silences


    That is something I can understand, ONLY if warriors/dks/druids/monks don't. If they do? Tough S.
    Edited by Cynbria on 2/14/2013 12:11 AM PST
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    90 Human Paladin
    0
    02/13/2013 11:05 PMPosted by Strîke
    Prot paladins still lack the utility necessary to make them desirable in RBGs


    Because the changes needed will make them OP in PvE.


    Making it so we have more mobility will make us op in PVE? How? What do you mean by the needed changes will make us op in PVE? None of the changes I've listed would affect PVE.

    02/13/2013 11:05 PMPosted by Strîke
    The Grand Crusader changes are a pvp utility (silence and daze) nerf.


    It's a nerf to haste stacking, get your facts straight.


    How is lowering the ratio from 30% chance to 12% chance not a nerf and how does it relate to haste? Yes they are adding 12% on dodge/parry too but that doesn't do jack for helping me silence a destro lock spamming chaos bolt when I really need to.

    02/13/2013 11:05 PMPosted by Strîke
    Furthermore, why is it prot paladins are so completely ignored?


    They are getting changes, that are bringing us into balance with the other tanks. FOR PvE.


  • Sacred Shield's absorb effect can now be dispelled.
  • The base damage of Consecration has been increased by 789%, and it now scales less efficiently with attack power by approximately 11%.
  • Hand of Purity now reduces all incoming damage by 10% in addition to its other effects.
  • Those are all the changes related to Prot in anyway.

    A minor buff to Consecration in PVP and nerf in PVE, a huge PVP nerf to our 20k damage shield (I guess Blizz figured a blanket nerf was easier than one just for holy), and a very very minor buff to Hand of Purity. How is this fitting or useful in anyway to your arguement? The fact they are nerfing Sacred Shield for prot in PVP is just silly and shows even more blatantly obvious how Blizz is completely ignoring Prot in PVP.

    02/13/2013 11:05 PMPosted by Strîke
    I know Ghostcrawler just wants us all to go holy but sheesh.


    Speculation.


    If you read any of his tweets to Rets from before Blizz started buffing Rets on the 5.2 ptr its pretty obvious.

    02/13/2013 11:05 PMPosted by Strîke
    Make emancipation baseline for prot just as it is for ret


    I can dig that. I guess.


    Good.

    02/13/2013 11:05 PMPosted by Strîke
    If emancipation is a no no then something similar to death's advance would be great


    Speed of Light and the rest of the lvl 15 talents.
    None of those talents do anything for me being slowed to 30% move speed for the entire walk across the map with the flag.

    02/13/2013 11:05 PMPosted by Strîke
    Give us a talent or spell that makes us unmovable, name it something like Stalwart Defender its easy and would provide massive benefit


    Like the frost DK cooldown? I'm not sure where you would put it, but I don't think that should be baseline.


    Well they could, make Burden of Guilt or Divine Purpose (a nerfed version if need be) baseline and put it in their place.

    02/13/2013 11:05 PMPosted by Strîke
    Not that damage is important but since Shield Slam is getting it's damage buffed so should shield of the righteous


    Not a warrior. Just because A gets a buff doesn't mean B gets a buff.


    Yes I am not a warrior but that doesn't mean that in pvp they should be able to take just as much of a beating as me while doing two or three times my damage.

    02/13/2013 11:05 PMPosted by Strîke
    Make it so not all our defensives are locked out by blanket silences


    That is something I can understand, ONLY if warriors/dks/druids/monks don't. If they do? Tough S.


    They don't...
    Edited by Strîke on 2/14/2013 1:36 AM PST
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    90 Human Paladin
    0
    02/13/2013 11:41 PMPosted by Ðemolition
    Anyhow, why do you even post this garbage? This is about fixing prot paladins a spec that has been ignored since RBGs first began


    02/13/2013 11:11 PMPosted by Ðemolition
    they don't want nor care about tanks in pvp


    Seriously, why are you still posting? You understand you can be banned from the forums for just posting useless dribble like this, right?
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    90 Night Elf Death Knight
    12825
    How is lowering the ratio from 30% chance to 12% chance not a nerf and how does it relate to haste? Yes they are adding 12% on dodge/parry too but that doesn't do jack for helping me silence a destro lock spamming chaos bolt when I really need to.


    30% chance when you dodge/parry an attack. Yes, that is a nerf for PvE. Welcome to the "YOUR GAME IS RUINING MY GAME" nerf wheel.

    02/14/2013 01:27 AMPosted by Strîke
    None of those talents do anything for me being slowed to 30% move speed for the entire walk across the map with the flag.


    Hand of Freedom should stop that? I'm not sure if the CDs are the same but is an answer to that.

    02/14/2013 01:27 AMPosted by Strîke
    They don't...


    That wasn't something I was aware of, honestly that's why I put that last little bit there.

    02/14/2013 01:27 AMPosted by Strîke
    Yes I am not a warrior but that doesn't mean that in pvp they should be able to take just as much of a beating as me while doing two or three times my damage.


    I can understand that on paper that looks bad, but GC has said he doesn't look at PvP dps #s unless something is over the top. Look at spriests, they're a pita right now and they're getting a 20% damage increase to Mind Blast. While the other casters are getting minor tweak nerfs for the most part.

    Sacred Shield's absorb effect can now be dispelled.
    The base damage of Consecration has been increased by 789%, and it now scales less efficiently with attack power by approximately 11%.
    Hand of Purity now reduces all incoming damage by 10% in addition to its other effects.
    Those are all the changes related to Prot in anyway.

    A minor buff to Consecration in PVP and nerf in PVE, a huge PVP nerf to our 20k damage shield (I guess Blizz figured a blanket nerf was easier than one just for holy), and a very very minor buff to Hand of Purity. How is this fitting or useful in anyway to your arguement? The fact they are nerfing Sacred Shield for prot in PVP is just silly and shows even more blatantly obvious how Blizz is completely ignoring Prot in PVP.


    Disc bubbles can be dispelled, druid/priest/shammy hots can be dispelled. Why shouldn't SS be put there as well? It's not taking away the fact that if you haste stack you can actually build up more ticks so that people can miss it and it still is going to do it's job.
    The Consecration change is (I think in the short term at least) is a buff for PvE since it will help deal with adds at the start of fights. PvP that's a straight up buff, not sure how often one uses that though.

    They haven't ignore tanks in PvP, they kicked your kind so hard in the jimmies they want you to be as useless as possible in real situations. Chasing down and beating the piss out of people during the Vengance days of PvP was fun as hell, but you can't let tanks be some sort of damage dealing/healing supporters in PvP or else you get stuck in crappy situations. Blizz isn't going to look at PvP balance for tanks until they figure out a way to create a separate engine for PvP. Until that day comes, pallies will continue to fall further and further down the ladder.

    And Demo won't get banned with what he's said. He hasn't said anything that blues haven't already told people before.
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    85 Night Elf Warrior
    0
    02/14/2013 03:36 AMPosted by Cynbria
    That wasn't something I was aware of, honestly that's why I put that last little bit there.


    Paladins, being the only tanks that actively use "spells" as part of their rotation/functionality, are the *only* tanks directly and adversely impacted by silencing effects. Not that the boss in dangerous directly, but if you want to see this first hand go take on Void Reaver in Tempest Keep. About a third of a paladin's offensive abilities are locked out by silence, and pretty much *all* of their defensive abilities are as well. Picking off a prot paladin in PvP is as easy as a silence or two.
    Edited by Feandel on 2/14/2013 9:11 AM PST
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    90 Night Elf Death Knight
    12055
    02/14/2013 09:10 AMPosted by Feandel
    Paladins, being the only tanks that actively use "spells" as part of their rotation/functionality, are the *only* tanks directly and adversely impacted by silencing effects.

    All my defenses are spells. I cannot use any cooldowns or ranged attacks while silenced.

    Seriously, why are you still posting? You understand you can be banned from the forums for just posting useless dribble like this, right?

    Because he's right? Tanks have a minor niche as flag carriers in PvP, but it's not like it's our primary purpose. They don't spend a whole pile of effort making sure every tank's toolkit is equal for PvP use, because that would drastically cut down on the variety we have in PvE - which is our primary role.

    For healers and DPS, you can make the argument that PvP and PvE are equally important. For tanks, PvE trumps PvP, every time.

    Making it so we have more mobility will make us op in PVE? How? What do you mean by the needed changes will make us op in PVE? None of the changes I've listed would affect PVE.

    Tanks are all relatively well balanced at the macro level, but have fairly large differences in utility and niche. This helps preserve class identity without causing huge balance problems.

    Warriors have lots of mobility and offensive utility.
    Death Knights have self-healing and personal defenses.
    Paladins have group healing and defensive utility.
    Druids have amazing flexibility - they can, ahead of time, pick what utility they want to have for a fight. It's sort of their shtick.
    Monks bring excellent group support and cooldowns.

    The problem is that PvP FCs only value three things: Selfhealing, personal defenses, and mobility. Paladins, which don't really excel at any of those, get left in the dust. However, if you gave them mobility and a stronger defensive toolkit, they'd stomp all over Death Knights and Warriors in terms of utility. This causes balance problems as paladins are favored for having more ways to deal with more mechanics than the other tanks.

    How is lowering the ratio from 30% chance to 12% chance not a nerf and how does it relate to haste? Yes they are adding 12% on dodge/parry too but that doesn't do jack for helping me silence a destro lock spamming chaos bolt when I really need to.

    It was not intended as a PvP nerf, it was intended as a PvE fix/AoE buff. Paladin AoE is weak in PvE and Paladins don't value dodge or parry. This change helps address both of those issues.

    Remember that bit about "PvE > PvP" for tanks.

    02/14/2013 01:27 AMPosted by Strîke
    Sacred Shield's absorb effect can now be dispelled.

    They're moving away from undispellable buffs because uncounterable mechanics are bad. Also, not really aimed at prot as much is it's aimed at holy - healers with uncounterable 30s heals are problematic.

    02/14/2013 01:27 AMPosted by Strîke
    The base damage of Consecration has been increased by 789%, and it now scales less efficiently with attack power by approximately 11%.

    PvE fix. Paladins with no vengeance currently deal less damage than pretty much all the other tanks, and their "on-pull" AoE threat is pretty terrible. This helps that.

    02/14/2013 01:27 AMPosted by Strîke
    Hand of Purity now reduces all incoming damage by 10% in addition to its other effects.

    Done to make Hand of Purity on par with the other options, specifically Unbreakable Spirit, which with the set bonuses next tier would make it the only good choice.

    02/14/2013 01:27 AMPosted by Strîke
    The fact they are nerfing Sacred Shield for prot in PVP is just silly and shows even more blatantly obvious how Blizz is completely ignoring Prot in PVP.

    Again, it's part of the global move away from uncounterable mechanics.

    02/14/2013 01:27 AMPosted by Strîke
    None of those talents do anything for me being slowed to 30% move speed for the entire walk across the map with the flag.

    See the above remark about "mobility is not your thing."

    If you want to be a super-mobile tank with battlefield control, play a tank that's thematically like that. Paladins are defensive crusaders, not aggressive vanguards.

    02/14/2013 01:27 AMPosted by Strîke
    Yes I am not a warrior but that doesn't mean that in pvp they should be able to take just as much of a beating as me while doing two or three times my damage.

    Tanks are balanced around PvE first, then PvP. Cope.
    Reply Quote
    90 Human Paladin
    13175
    The problems with prot paladins in PvP are pretty deep-seated and far reaching. I don't really think that small changes to Consecrate/SS/etc even rate on the scale of being worth complaining about. (I'm also not convinced that SS change really constitutes a nerf, but like I said, it's kind of beside the point.) The fact that silence makes us unable to pop cooldowns doesn't really rate, either. There are two big problems for prot paladins in PvP:

    1) Paladins by and large are built around countering enemy abilities with their own ability usage, but when you're flag carrying most of the abilities you're facing are either uncounterable (Smoke Bomb isn't something you can really "counter" per se) or your counters are unusable (since you can't HoP/Bubble while carrying).

    Blizzard's talked about how they want more "counterable" stuff in the game and paladins are basically the defensive counter specialist - a Hand for every situation. My hope is that if they actually follow through on that, prot paladins will get stronger in the long term.

    2) Most of the "good" flag carrying abilities that other tanks have are things that make them unique, so it's not easy to justify giving them out to other tanks.

    Stuff like Travel Form or fourteen different Charge abilities are literally the sorts of things that distinguish warriors and ferals from other tanks. It just so happens that those abilities are amazing for flag carrying, but it means that the solution is challenging because you're giving away what makes those classes special.

    I think that's why flag carrier imbalance has persisted for so long and why I'm not particularly hopeful for the future. It's a complex problem and the causes are pretty far-reaching - it's not something that more damage or Emancipate or whatever would easily solve. I don't think most of your changes will really significantly impact the viability of prot paladins in RBGs. (For the record though, I did like the idea of a buff that makes you immovable - maybe they could add this in to Unbreakable Spirit or Hand of Purity to give a reason to pick something besides Clemency in PvP.)
    Edited by Branar on 2/14/2013 9:57 AM PST
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    90 Blood Elf Paladin
    11375
    Could not agree more. No reason why prot paladins should continue to get screwed for pvp flag carrying. Why should 2-3 tank classes completely own this?

    It's bad enough that due to class design and all of our defensive abilites are passive giving ret a raw deal in terms of survivability (a ret can't put on a shield go defensive). Giving prot paladins a legit buff to be pvp flag runners along with the other tanks seems entirely fair to me, if one or more pve tank specs can do this role ALL of them need to be able too. I'm all for being unique but if in 5.2 only paladins and monks could solo tank a heroic mode that the other classes couldn't wouldn't everyone else be right in demanding that it be fixed? How is this situation any different?
    Edited by Rhadamir on 2/14/2013 10:43 AM PST
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    90 Human Paladin
    0


    Seriously, why are you still posting? You understand you can be banned from the forums for just posting useless dribble like this, right?

    Because he's right? Tanks have a minor niche as flag carriers in PvP, but it's not like it's our primary purpose. They don't spend a whole pile of effort making sure every tank's toolkit is equal for PvP use, because that would drastically cut down on the variety we have in PvE - which is our primary role.


    Being a requirement for every RBG group is a "minor niche role"....ha, no.

    02/14/2013 09:43 AMPosted by Krinu
    For healers and DPS, you can make the argument that PvP and PvE are equally important. For tanks, PvE trumps PvP, every time.


    Why? Its a necessary role.

    Making it so we have more mobility will make us op in PVE? How? What do you mean by the needed changes will make us op in PVE? None of the changes I've listed would affect PVE.

    Tanks are all relatively well balanced at the macro level, but have fairly large differences in utility and niche. This helps preserve class identity without causing huge balance problems.

    Warriors have lots of mobility and offensive utility.
    Death Knights have self-healing and personal defenses.
    Paladins have group healing and defensive utility.
    Druids have amazing flexibility - they can, ahead of time, pick what utility they want to have for a fight. It's sort of their shtick.
    Monks bring excellent group support and cooldowns.

    The problem is that PvP FCs only value three things: Selfhealing, personal defenses, and mobility. Paladins, which don't really excel at any of those, get left in the dust. However, if you gave them mobility and a stronger defensive toolkit, they'd stomp all over Death Knights and Warriors in terms of utility. This causes balance problems as paladins are favored for having more ways to deal with more mechanics than the other tanks.


    We have almost no utility compared to other classes and...group healing? Really? Ya my 2x20k flash of light and 10k WoG is really going to save my group's !@#. This is just plain ridiculous.

    02/14/2013 09:43 AMPosted by Krinu
    How is lowering the ratio from 30% chance to 12% chance not a nerf and how does it relate to haste? Yes they are adding 12% on dodge/parry too but that doesn't do jack for helping me silence a destro lock spamming chaos bolt when I really need to.

    It was not intended as a PvP nerf, it was intended as a PvE fix/AoE buff. Paladin AoE is weak in PvE and Paladins don't value dodge or parry. This change helps address both of those issues.

    Remember that bit about "PvE > PvP" for tanks.


    That's a pointless argument, any games these days that have lasting popularity focus on pvp.

    02/14/2013 09:43 AMPosted by Krinu
    Sacred Shield's absorb effect can now be dispelled.

    They're moving away from undispellable buffs because uncounterable mechanics are bad. Also, not really aimed at prot as much is it's aimed at holy - healers with uncounterable 30s heals are problematic.


    They are capable of changing spells for specific specs, they could have just nerfed it for holy. They didn't.

    02/14/2013 09:43 AMPosted by Krinu
    The base damage of Consecration has been increased by 789%, and it now scales less efficiently with attack power by approximately 11%.

    PvE fix. Paladins with no vengeance currently deal less damage than pretty much all the other tanks, and their "on-pull" AoE threat is pretty terrible. This helps that.


    Okay....great for people that still enjoy PVE I guess.

    02/14/2013 09:43 AMPosted by Krinu
    Hand of Purity now reduces all incoming damage by 10% in addition to its other effects.

    Done to make Hand of Purity on par with the other options, specifically Unbreakable Spirit, which with the set bonuses next tier would make it the only good choice.


    Its still not much better but its slightly more useful in pvp now so thats good but 10% for 6 seconds is nothing.
    Reply Quote
    90 Human Paladin
    0
    Could not agree more. No reason why prot paladins should continue to get screwed for pvp flag carrying. Why should 2-3 tank classes completely own this?

    It's bad enough that due to class design and all of our defensive abilites are passive giving ret a raw deal in terms of survivability (a ret can't put on a shield go defensive). Giving prot paladins a legit buff to be pvp flag runners along with the other tanks seems entirely fair to me, if one or more pve tank specs can do this role ALL of them need to be able too. I'm all for being unique but if in 5.2 only paladins and monks could solo tank a heroic mode that the other classes couldn't wouldn't everyone else be right in demanding that it be fixed? How is this situation any different?


    Exactly!
    Reply Quote
    85 Night Elf Warrior
    0
    02/14/2013 09:43 AMPosted by Krinu
    Paladins, being the only tanks that actively use "spells" as part of their rotation/functionality, are the *only* tanks directly and adversely impacted by silencing effects.

    All my defenses are spells. I cannot use any cooldowns or ranged attacks while silenced.

    I've run my DK through the entirety of Tempest Keep, including Void Reaver. I, at no time, experienced anything of the sort. Similar experience with Huhuran in AQ40. They both keep you either perpetually or significantly silenced for the fight. Never had any problems with using cooldowns or other abilities. Granted, VR is immune to diseases, but I was able to use all of my skills to the best of my recollection.
    Reply Quote
    90 Night Elf Death Knight
    12055
    02/14/2013 10:57 AMPosted by Strîke
    Being a requirement for every RBG group is a "minor niche role"....ha, no.

    A requirement for anyone doing the CTF maps. Last I checked, there were a few other game types for PvP.

    2) Most of the "good" flag carrying abilities that other tanks have are things that make them unique, so it's not easy to justify giving them out to other tanks.

    Stuff like Travel Form or fourteen different Charge abilities are literally the sorts of things that distinguish warriors and ferals from other tanks. It just so happens that those abilities are amazing for flag carrying, but it means that the solution is challenging because you're giving away what makes those classes special.

    This.

    02/14/2013 09:56 AMPosted by Branar
    (For the record though, I did like the idea of a buff that makes you immovable - maybe they could add this in to Unbreakable Spirit or Hand of Purity to give a reason to pick something besides Clemency in PvP.)

    Do you mean "immune to forced movement" or "unable to move, period?"

    (Now is when we all /point and /laugh at the Glyph of Pillar of Frost)

    Why? Its a necessary role.

    Sure it is... except that you don't need to be a tank spec to carry a flag. I've seen healers in full resil gear do quite well, and some of the more mobile DPS - feral druids spring to mind - are also excellent.

    You DO need to be a tank spec to tank a raid boss for more than a few seconds.

    We have almost no utility compared to other classes and...group healing? Really? Ya my 2x20k flash of light and 10k WoG is really going to save my group's !@#. This is just plain ridiculous.

    I was talking about PvE, where it IS part of your class' contribution to group utility... Vengeance-buffed healing provided by things like the Battle-healer glyph is nothing to scoff at.

    Even in PvP where you don't get vengeance, you bring a LOT of utility in your hand spells, and you have some of the "hardest" defensive counters in the game. I'm sorry they're not useful with a flag?

    02/14/2013 10:57 AMPosted by Strîke
    Okay....great for people that still enjoy PVE I guess.

    I'll take "What is a tank's primary purpose in WoW" for five hundred gold, please?

    02/14/2013 10:57 AMPosted by Strîke
    Its still not much better but its slightly more useful in pvp now so thats good but 10% for 6 seconds is nothing.

    10% isn't nothing. It's 10%, and that's on top of the reduction it already provides.

    02/14/2013 11:09 AMPosted by Feandel
    I've run my DK through the entirety of Tempest Keep, including Void Reaver. I, at no time, experienced anything of the sort. Similar experience with Huhuran in AQ40. They both keep you either perpetually or significantly silenced for the fight. Never had any problems with using cooldowns or other abilities. Granted, VR is immune to diseases, but I was able to use all of my skills to the best of my recollection.

    I'll check again. I know you can't use things like Death Coil and Blood Boil while silenced, and I thought you couldn't use most of the defensive spells.
    Reply Quote
    90 Tauren Paladin
    11340
    Such blatant ignorance of how tanking works in PvE from the OP... It's quite disgusting, really.


    Being a requirement for every RBG group is a "minor niche role"....ha, no.

    Not every group. Again, CTF isn't the only type of BG around.

    Why? Its a necessary role.

    No it isn't.



    We have almost no utility compared to other classes and...group healing? Really? Ya my 2x20k flash of light and 10k WoG is really going to save my group's !@#. This is just plain ridiculous.


    Ever heard of Hand spells?

    02/14/2013 10:57 AMPosted by Strîke
    That's a pointless argument, any games these days that have lasting popularity focus on pvp.


    And that's a pointless statement. Any game with both PvE and PvP will make balance changes that can be aimed at one and not the other. And those games may or may not get their longevity out of PvP, that's pure bias speaking for you.

    They are capable of changing spells for specific specs, they could have just nerfed it for holy. They didn't.

    And how big a deal is losing one periodic shield from SS? If its big enough you might actually look at the other talents in the tier, which was the whole point of the talent system in MoP.

    Okay....great for people that still enjoy PVE I guess.

    Yes, it is nice for us, thank you. I notice some sarcasm in your post, so allow me to throw it right back at you. Most of us don't give two craps about any PvP buffs our classes get when we don't pvp. (not saying most of the Tanking forum doesn't pvp, but there are plenty of people of every class who don't pvp).

    Its still not much better but its slightly more useful in pvp now so thats good but 10% for 6 seconds is nothing.


    It gives the Hand some usefulness when you're not fighting a Warlock/Shadow Priest/Unholy Death Knight/Survival (lol) Hunter/etc. You complained about warlocks using Chaos Bolt earlier, this will give you something extra in that situation, along with reducing some of the DoT damage that even a Destruction warlock would do to you.
    Reply Quote
    90 Human Paladin
    0
    Hoesnt question for the DKs posting here and Darpalta, you guy have never played ANY rbgs, not just this season but literally none. Oh sorry, Darpalta played one back in 2011. Why are you guys even posting? You can't assess the quality of life in pvp for flag carriers when the only pvp experience you have in a few normal random bgs. Take it from people that actually play them, no actual RBG team is having a healer flag carry, kiddo.
    Reply Quote
    90 Human Paladin
    0
    02/14/2013 11:09 AMPosted by Feandel

    All my defenses are spells. I cannot use any cooldowns or ranged attacks while silenced.

    I've run my DK through the entirety of Tempest Keep, including Void Reaver. I, at no time, experienced anything of the sort. Similar experience with Huhuran in AQ40. They both keep you either perpetually or significantly silenced for the fight. Never had any problems with using cooldowns or other abilities. Granted, VR is immune to diseases, but I was able to use all of my skills to the best of my recollection.


    I just don't think these guys have any idea what they're talking about, hell looking at some of their stats I'm not sure they know the difference between a stun and a silence, they're PVE heroic/LFR heroes.
    Reply Quote
    90 Night Elf Death Knight
    12825
    And I'm not sure you understand that blizz has 0 interest in fixing you in PvP until some big change comes down the barrel. Get used to being worthless in CTF style BGs, or L2P ret/holy.
    Reply Quote

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