Fresh 90 tank, plz give me pointers w/ gear

90 Tauren Death Knight
8235
I have recently hit 90 within the past week. When I hit 90 I purchased the lvl 90 item lvl 450 tank gear set from the AH and had a guild mate craft me a 2h weapon. I upgraded the weapon with the massive JP I had from lvling up. When I first started out I tried to reforge for Hit/Exp to help myself hold agro against some very geared LFG players. I never had a healer complain that I was taking too much damage, but I felt that I was.

Now I have reforged back into avoidance. Holding aggro can be tricky at times on AOE pulls, but I feel like I manage well most of the time. I have read the tanking guide here many times and I feel like I am playing my DK tank correctly.

Should I go for more hit/exp, or should I stay with avoidance. Either way I always go for Mastery over anything else. I use mastery flasks to boost it even more.

Am I doing it right?
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100 Tauren Death Knight
14250
I don't understand some of your reforging....

On your chest,helm,legs: you reforged Dodge to Parry.

On your shoulders,gloves: you reforged Parry to Dodge.

I never bother reforging gear if it already has mastery on it. Otherwise I pull a stat and turn it into mastery.

Have been pulling out of crit and some dodge to pick up some hit rating. Missing on diseases is aggravating and it seems to always come in streaks.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
8235
From what I understand, there needs to be a different rating of dodge and parry. With the MOP changes to DR on dodge and parry doesn't parry need to be 2 - 2.5x higher than dodge? (the %, not the rating numbers) I am trying to balance them out as close as I can.

This is why I need help understanding what to gear for lol.
Edited by Darksehb on 2/14/2013 8:44 AM PST
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90 Draenei Death Knight
15410
Mastery > Avoidance

If an item does not have mastery? Reforge the highest stat to mastery. If a slot already has mastery on it then just try to balance the dodge and parry to help minimize how much avoidance you could lose due to diminishing returns on ratings.

edited to add.

You can reforge into hit but it's anecdotal just because whether or not it's needed is based on your progression and if you have more passive hit on tank gear or not already and really each slot as a tank is almost more by hand reforged compared to dps. When you're dps it's min/max capping of two stats and then getting the most dps out of the rest. For tank it's weighting your current mitigation/survival compared to your ease of life on things landing and so on. Proving what does or doesn't save you in fights and if your misses even cost wipes and so on is generally more opinion than anything. Have to decide for one'self more than a set rule.
Edited by Tor on 2/14/2013 8:59 AM PST
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100 Troll Death Knight
19025
Basically, you're going to reforge into mastery on any piece that does not have mastery, and then from there it's up to personal preference. For me, I tend to not care too much for hit/exp, but I won't reforge away from it either.

When it comes to looking at the gear itself, anything with mastery and hit/exp/dodge/parry on it is best, with hit/exp up until caps preferable. If you can't get mastery, the items with ridiculous amounts of parry are pretty good too, just for the sheer amount you can reforge.

Also, don't worry about evening out dodge and parry. The increase in str->parry conversion makes it all but impossible, and completely pointless.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
15410
Basically, you're going to reforge into mastery on any piece that does not have mastery, and then from there it's up to personal preference. For me, I tend to not care too much for hit/exp, but I won't reforge away from it either.

When it comes to looking at the gear itself, anything with mastery and hit/exp/dodge/parry on it is best, with hit/exp up until caps preferable. If you can't get mastery, the items with ridiculous amounts of parry are pretty good too, just for the sheer amount you can reforge.

Also, don't worry about evening out dodge and parry. The increase in str->parry conversion makes it all but impossible, and completely pointless.


generally if they are a wanting to reforge into avoidance it usually becomes turning parry into dodge more than dodge into parry unless a most of the gear has dodge and not parry.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
8235
So it it useless to reforge dodge to parry? or vice versa? As I said before I am trying to avoid DR, but I am not 100% sure how it works with the MoP changes.
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90 Dwarf Death Knight
9735
So it it useless to reforge dodge to parry? or vice versa? As I said before I am trying to avoid DR, but I am not 100% sure how it works with the MoP changes.

you should be trying to minimize DR, but that's not high on the priority list. help fix the DR where you can, but always focus on maximizing mastery.

02/14/2013 08:43 AMPosted by Darksehb
With the MOP changes to DR on dodge and parry doesn't parry need to be 2 - 2.5x higher than dodge?

Where did you read this? everyone has this idea and I don't know where it came from lol. The actual ratio will change depending on the amount of avoidance you currently have. You are using SwordShattering as a runeforge, so use this macro to help balance them:

/run d=GetDodgeChance() n=3.22 b=5.01 if UnitRace("player")=="Gnome" then n=n-.01 end if UnitRace("player")=="Night Elf" then b=b+2 end p=235.5*d/90.6425-((235.5/90.6425)*b-n)+4 DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Ideal parry: "..string.format("%.2f",p))


that's going to give you the ideal parry% to minimize DR based on your dodge. You don't have to get it perfect, it's just the direction you want. Let's say you had 20% parry and you ran that macro, and it said your ideal parry should be around 16%. You would find any place you could take parry and put it into dodge without sacrificing mastery. now let's say you ran it and it said you needed 25%, which means you're under. Then you'd take dodge and put it into parry. Keep checking the macro often while reforging, because as you adjust dodge the ideal number will change. So make an adjustment, then check the macro. Repeat until satisfied.

Again, all this is good to do but it's not like you will be gravely disadvantaged if you don't. DR doesn't hurt that bad, so even if you're pretty far off you won't be losing too much avoidance. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try though :)
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90 Orc Death Knight
9295
It's a good idea to reforge parry and dodge > mastery

Higher blood shields easily cover the parry and dodge loss trough huge absorbs, with 130+ mastery unbuffed those death strikes after taking a few hits makes everything smoother.
And on everything that is taunt swap based you will shine...

even some specifics like will of the emperor for example. While dodging those devatasting combos you build up a full hp shield fast and spend it on DRW> IF > DRW > IF they will pretty much always be up between those devastating combos...
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90 Tauren Death Knight
8235
Posted by Darksehb
With the MOP changes to DR on dodge and parry doesn't parry need to be 2 - 2.5x higher than dodge?

Where did you read this? everyone has this idea and I don't know where it came from lol. The actual ratio will change depending on the amount of avoidance you currently have. You are using SwordShattering as a runeforge, so use this macro to help balance them:


This was taken from your DK tank guide:

Balancing Avoidance and DR
With the new DR mechanics We'll want to balance the % on our character screen according to this equation:

Parry% = 2.598*dodge% - 5.797 (with Rune of Swordshattering)
Parry% = 2.598*dodge% - 9.797 (without Rune of Swordshattering)

So for example if you had 10% dodge on your character sheet and had Swordshattering on your weapon, you would want...
2.598 x 10 - 5.797 = 20.18% parry rating.

This, along with what other players have told me, led me to believe that dodge and parry need to be balanced @ around parry = 2 - 2.5x amount of dodge. Having DR IMO would cause a great deal of mitigation loss. The reason being that simply when you dodge or parry less you take more damage. (I am not trying to be a smartass I am just trying to show you all where I am coming from)

The macro you give:

/run d=GetDodgeChance() n=3.22 b=5.01 if UnitRace("player")=="Gnome" then n=n-.01 end if UnitRace("player")=="Night Elf" then b=b+2 end p=235.5*d/90.6425-((235.5/90.6425)*b-n)+4 DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Ideal parry: "..string.format("%.2f",p))

I don't understand where or how to use this macro. Is this something that you would just basically make a macro for in the Macro UI >> press it >> see results?

02/14/2013 10:14 AMPosted by Smthcriminal
As a new tank you wont have to worry about DR for a while.


Being that I am only getting into 5 man heroic content you are probably right about this. I mainly raid as my Rogue and really have no plans to raid on this toon outside of LFR unless my guild is desperate for a tank.

Thank you everyone who has posted their feedback so far!
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100 Tauren Death Knight
14250
02/14/2013 11:42 AMPosted by Darksehb
I don't understand where or how to use this macro. Is this something that you would just basically make a macro for in the Macro UI >> press it >> see results?


Yep. It'll put a little text blurb in your chat window stating what your parry % should be.
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90 Orc Death Knight
3640
I'm no expert on tanking in MoP, the only experiences I have so far (with my 90 human dk) are switching to blood with my masterfrost gear set and then slapping on a 2h... I don't feel like I take any dmg in 5 mans this way and I've been able to tank in MSV fine as well. The gear literally has no dodge/parry on it and is all mastery/hit/exp... I pulled 88k dps on will of the emp tanking, but that was largely due to the fact that I dodged DevCombo 100% perfect and got Opportunistic Strike each time. But imo, just find a good healer friend that's a pimp and the n stack mastery and dps stats, lol. You may get hit slightly harder, but it will be for a shorter duration as you will most likely always be top end of the dps in the group. :P btw I'm talking about normal msv, tanking lfr in this gear is a total joke and usually I seem to take even less damage than the other tank who is trying to wear real tank gear. Is it just because I spam the piss out of death strike? maybe... :P I've never seen blood tanking as hard though, spread them diseases and then spam bb or ds depending on the amount of mobs around..... heh.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
8235
I could just be making this 10000000x more complicated than it actually is. I could also be making DR out to be some horrible thing when it really is nothing much at all...
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100 Tauren Death Knight
14250
I hardly played during Cata (disliked the story/grind) and just recently (6ish weeks ago?) came back to WoW.

Had a heckuva time letting go of needing a lot of dodge/parry to tank. I was playing a pally tank then and it's still weird not shooting for the 104.whatever % mitigation.

This active mitigation takes getting used to. But the blood shield is awesome now that I'm starting to get used to taking a lot of hits without seeing the dodge/parry/block float up.
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90 Dwarf Death Knight
9735
02/14/2013 11:42 AMPosted by Darksehb
This was taken from your DK tank guide:

but it doesn't say anywhere in there that you need your parry to be 2.5x times your dodge. Is there something that's not clear in that section? If the guide is not clear please let me know so I can adjust the wording ASAP.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
11805
02/14/2013 12:16 PMPosted by Darksehb
I could just be making this 10000000x more complicated than it actually is. I could also be making DR out to be some horrible thing when it really is nothing much at all...


I'm no pro by any means, nor do I tank on a regular basis (as it makes my latency skyrocket for some reason) but I have always feared the DR and death knights have a ton of parry to begin with. I always runeforge for Stoneskin Gargoyle to help alleviate that, especially since there's not a lot of dungeon mobs that disarm. And even if we do get disarmed blood dks have enough threat that a few slaps in the face and blood boils don't have any issues maintaining aggro.

I runeforge all my parry into mastery and try to keep a decent hit/exp cap and it works well for me when I need to emergency tank a heroic.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
8235
02/14/2013 12:36 PMPosted by Reniat
This was taken from your DK tank guide:

but it doesn't say anywhere in there that you need your parry to be 2.5x times your dodge. Is there something that's not clear in that section? If the guide is not clear please let me know so I can adjust the wording ASAP.


That is just how I took it. I can not speak for everyone else who read the guide.

Parry% = 2.598*dodge% - 5.797 (with Rune of Swordshattering)
Parry% = 2.598*dodge% - 9.797 (without Rune of Swordshattering)

I said before that I am not sure if I understand it right. That is just how I read it. The guide is awesome, hands down. You have helped me understand more in your responses to this thread. When I get home from work I plan on not only running more heroics, but doing some more figuring on numbers as well.
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90 Dwarf Death Knight
9735
Parry% = (2.598*dodge% - 5.797) (with Rune of Swordshattering)
Parry% = (2.598*dodge% - 9.797) (without Rune of Swordshattering)

If i put parenthesis around it does it make it less likely to just grab the 2.598 only? If people are really getting 2.5ish (and trust me youre not the only one) from my guide it would be because they aren't reading the whole equation, so I need to figure out a way to make them either see the whole equation or just leave it out and only put the macro in.

I always assumed it was just because noxxic was saying 2.5 or something. I'd hate to hear that people are getting the wrong data from my guide D:
Edited by Reniat on 2/14/2013 1:35 PM PST
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90 Tauren Death Knight
8235
I am not going to say to change anything. In fact I would not change anything. I would say it is ppl not reading the whole thing. It could also be ppl not knowing how to do the math. I just got home from work so I am going to try some stuff out, like that macro.
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