New Disc Priest Mechanics Announced On PTR!

90 Pandaren Shaman
12960
02/14/2013 08:57 PMPosted by Noxnzee
SO disc is getting buffed again?


yep it's time for you to reroll i guess!

Seriously. Dang it I was eagerly awaiting the disc tears. Shek'zeer has made me bitter against disc priests
90 Human Priest
5860
02/14/2013 07:59 PMPosted by Keirisonis
renew might become worth casting

With the previous 5.2 changes renew was already worth casting at certain haste points.
Oh Evry, Kaels answered your question here
Oh Tay, how would I ever navigate the forums without you?

Also, with the way absorb mechanics work, the PWS absorb should be eaten before the DA crit proc from it (it will be smaller, assuming the DA from crit PWS scales with Mastery again, and it will have a shorter remaining duration because there's a small lag between crit effects and DA application.)

This depends if PWS crits invoke DA. I think it's unlikely that that'll happen.

This change only increases the size of DA bubbles marginally, while drastically lowering the direct heal portion [of crits]. Nothing is going to change w.r.t. the value of crit DAs, but crit will be drastically reduced in value on everything but PW:S, and maybe SS, depending how they change that formula.

The PI change is interesting, and might break atonement with high mastery and enough haste.
90 Blood Elf Mage
17040
02/14/2013 09:57 PMPosted by Evry
Oh Tay, how would I ever navigate the forums without you?


Hehe, sorry. :/
90 Orc Shaman
HC
15750
02/14/2013 09:41 PMPosted by Dezie


yep it's time for you to reroll i guess!

Seriously. Dang it I was eagerly awaiting the disc tears. Shek'zeer has made me bitter against disc priests


On heroic tsulong you will have your revenge my friend!
90 Human Priest
17730
Freaking AWESOME!

I actually like that I can PW:S more - I missed it when it was too expensive to use for anything but a rapture proc.

Not so nervous now about 5.2, I just server changed and got into a really good guild that pushes heroic progression, so I didn't want my Priest to become weak/blah.
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
02/14/2013 10:17 PMPosted by Sensations
On heroic tsulong you will have your revenge my friend!


Help me convince my guild to let me be Disc for that fight and make the Paladin and Druid heal everything and I'll just be on the raid.

Pls?
90 Troll Priest
12420
Neat! I always felt like PW:S needed to crit.
90 Human Priest
17065
/points at changes

/screams
90 Worgen Druid
12130
Is this another nerf? I'm not understanding the crit change maybe.

Correct me if I'm wrong please:

Currently, a crit heal does 200% of the heal + 50% DA bubble. After changes, the heal will do 100% heal + 100% DA bubble, resulting in a 50% nerf of what it was before (assuming no overheal/wasted shield).

Now, maybe because of overhealing, it's better to have a bigger bubble than it is to have a bigger heal, but all I can think of is Tsulong, or healing stunned tanks on H Elegon, and wonder what they're thinking with this change.
90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
Currently, a crit heal does 200% of the heal + 50% DA bubble. After changes, the heal will do 100% heal + 100% DA bubble, resulting in a 50% nerf of what it was before (assuming no overheal/wasted shield).

Now, maybe because of overhealing, it's better to have a bigger bubble than it is to have a bigger heal, but all I can think of is Tsulong, or healing stunned tanks on H Elegon, and wonder what they're thinking with this change.


5.2 Crit: 100% Heal+100% Absorb (x mastery). So it'll really be more like 230%, with 130% being absorb instead of 200% being healing.

On Tsulong, you shouldn't really be Disc to begin with. Most Disc Priests on H Tsulong are only brought to Aegis pad during the whole fight anyway, hardly ever healing Tsulong. On Heroic Elegon, a couple quick Atonement heals (penance/HF) will almost instantly remove your soaker from the stun.
90 Worgen Druid
12130
Currently, a crit heal does 200% of the heal + 50% DA bubble. After changes, the heal will do 100% heal + 100% DA bubble, resulting in a 50% nerf of what it was before (assuming no overheal/wasted shield).

Now, maybe because of overhealing, it's better to have a bigger bubble than it is to have a bigger heal, but all I can think of is Tsulong, or healing stunned tanks on H Elegon, and wonder what they're thinking with this change.


5.2 Crit: 100% Heal+100% Absorb (x mastery). So it'll really be more like 230%, with 130% being absorb instead of 200% being healing.

On Tsulong, you shouldn't really be Disc to begin with. Most Disc Priests on H Tsulong are only brought to Aegis pad during the whole fight anyway, hardly ever healing Tsulong. On Heroic Elegon, a couple quick Atonement heals (penance/HF) will almost instantly remove your soaker from the stun.


Interesting, my disc will probably never get to h elegon, but does the atonement heal go outside the circle? Normally I have to step out to heal the tanks.
90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
02/15/2013 06:32 AMPosted by Lifa
Interesting, my disc will probably never get to h elegon, but does the atonement heal go outside the circle? Normally I have to step out to heal the tanks.


Yep. Atonement bypasses the obscured vision mechanic entirely.
90 Draenei Priest
9485
Uhhhh...

As someone who mostly does PvP, the Divine Aegis change is scary beyond belief.

Unless I'm missing something, all this change means is that we lose our 200% crit heals, except the DA absorb amount remains the same as on live (if I did my math wrong please correct me):

Assuming 30% mastery:

On live, if a heal heals for 100, a crit would heal for 200 and give a DA that absorbs 130 (200 * (50 * 1.3)).
In 5.2, if a heal heals for 100, a crit would heal for 100, and give a DA that absorbs 130 (100 * (100 * 1.3)).

How is this anything but a major, major nerf?

When I use Inner Focus to get a guaranteed crit, I don't want the exact same heal and an absorb. I want a big heal and an absorb.

Depending on the situation, the absorb could go unused a lot of the time. If someone's health is really low and I want to bring them back to a non-critical health level, I am relying on my Inner Focus crit heal to heal for twice the normal amount.

While I am mostly thinking about this from a PvP perspective, I don't see how this changes much in PvE, the same concept applies.

-----------

I'm a big fan of the mastery change, and the PW:S being able to crit is neat, but the DA change worries me greatly.

I guess I don't understand what the goal here is. The mastery change "makes Disc still awesome at bubbles, but not quite so weak at heals", but the DA change goes completely against that principle.

Please reconsider.
Edited by Ayani on 2/15/2013 6:38 AM PST
90 Human Priest
17065
Is this another nerf? I'm not understanding the crit change maybe.

Correct me if I'm wrong please:

Currently, a crit heal does 200% of the heal + 50% DA bubble. After changes, the heal will do 100% heal + 100% DA bubble, resulting in a 50% nerf of what it was before (assuming no overheal/wasted shield).

Now, maybe because of overhealing, it's better to have a bigger bubble than it is to have a bigger heal, but all I can think of is Tsulong, or healing stunned tanks on H Elegon, and wonder what they're thinking with this change.


If I'm reading this correctly, this is change that can either be read as both a 'nerf' and a 'buff'

Old DA: 100hp (heal) + 100hp (crit) + DA(Absorb 50% +mastery)

New DA: 100 (heal) + DA (Absorb 100% + mastery)

So I'm reading this as "now we are a TRUE 'all or nothing' class!"

Case 1: If you happen to crit on a target that's taking constant damage, it's probably a buff mastery depending - all absorbs are eatened up.

Case 2: If you are looking to heal somebody back up after sporadic damage, this is an overwhelmingly hard nerf (all absorbs are wasted) - unless you mastery is impossibly high to a point where the raw healing buff actually overtakes whatever you lose from the DA change (That extra 100% raw healing turns into an unabsorbed bubble). I can see this being really really rough on atonement where most of the time you actually want raw healing 'crits' then absorbs due to the smart heal nature of atonement and what you use it for (sporadic spikes that are unlikely to occur on the same target twice).

...mixed feelings. Head hurting. I like the attempt to balance our secondary stats (que 'crit' camp, 'mastery' camp, and the '50/50' camp war). But at the same time it's probably going to be real deflating on the moral front when a shaman goes 'I CRIT FOR 1 MILLLION, BIG NUMBERS ON SCREEN' and I'm staring at my screen going "I will never see anything over 100k again".
Edited by Zamboozle on 2/15/2013 7:26 AM PST
90 Draenei Priest
9485
Old DA: 100hp (heal) + 100hp (crit) + DA(Absorb 50%)

New DA: 100 (heal) + DA (Absorb 100% + mastery)


Mastery affects DA on live too.
90 Human Priest
17065
Old DA: 100hp (heal) + 100hp (crit) + DA(Absorb 50%)

New DA: 100 (heal) + DA (Absorb 100% + mastery)


Mastery affects DA on live too.


@_@ I shall add the +mastery in...

edit: They should give us a switch to turn the whole crits-turns-into-DA thing on and off.
Edited by Zamboozle on 2/15/2013 7:30 AM PST
90 Pandaren Priest
12925
02/15/2013 07:15 AMPosted by Zamboozle
If I'm reading this correctly, this is change that can either be read as both a 'nerf' and a 'buff'


It's a nerf to critical heals but a buff to non-critical heals, in a nutshell.

To give an example using a 50k heal with a 50% mastery bonus.

Before: 50k heal non-crit, 100k heal + 75k DA on a crit.

After: 58k heal non-crit, 58k heal + 76.56k DA on a crit.

So before a non-crit heal in this circumstance would be 50k total healing and a crit heal would be 175k total healing. After a non-crit heal will be 58k total healing and crit will be 134.56k total healing.

Also, that 50% mastery bonus to absorbs becomes a 16% bonus to healing and a 32% bonus to absorbs post-change. So base mastery goes from +20% to absorbs to +6.4% to healing and +12.8% to absorbs, with every 600 mastery points adding +0.8% to the healing bonus and +1.6% to the absorb bonus.

Case 2: If you are looking to heal somebody back up after sporadic damage, this is an overwhelmingly hard nerf (all absorbs are wasted) - unless you mastery is impossibly high to a point where the raw healing buff actually overtakes whatever you lose from the DA change (That extra 100% raw healing turns into an unabsorbed bubble). I can see this being really really rough on atonement where most of the time you actually want raw healing 'crits' then absorbs due to the smart heal nature of atonement and what you use it for (sporadic spikes that are unlikely to occur on the same target twice).


Meh, Discipline has always been bad at exclusively restoring health bars. So this is nothing new. It would help in this area when looking at non-critical heals but it does make critical heals worse for this purpose.

I'd rate it as a decent PVE change because it brings the stats closer together and improves Discipline healing without improving the absorbs too much. The PW:S change also removes the synergy issue with PW:S and critical strike. For PVP I think it will be fine if some type of dispel protection is added. But then I don't PVP much so... yeah.

02/15/2013 06:37 AMPosted by Ayani
I am relying on my Inner Focus crit heal to heal for twice the normal amount.


Perhaps it isn't necessary but I'd like to see them change the way IF works if they're going ahead with this DA change. Something like this...

Inner Focus: Reduces the mana cost of your next Flash Heal, Greater Heal or Prayer of Healing by 25% and increases it's effect to 300% of the original value.

This would make it more like it is on live but convert it into a complete heal instead of a heal+absorb, giving Discipline a completely reactive healing option.

For the sake of argument... Going back to a 50k heal with a 50% mastery bonus.

Old Inner Focus on Live: 100k heal + 75k DA shield.

Old Inner Focus with DA Change: 58k heal + 76.56k DA.

New Inner Focus with DA Change: 174k heal.

The only concern would be a SS cast being too powerful when paired with IF. With the new SS changes I don't think it will be that big of a deal.
90 Human Priest
17065
02/15/2013 08:30 AMPosted by Volios
Meh, Discipline has always been bad at exclusively restoring health bars. So this is nothing new. It would help in this area when looking at non-critical heals but it does make critical heals worse for this purpose.


Yeah, that's my problem with it. Especially when coupled with atonement where it is basically our best spot healing/random sporadic damage fixer and that we can really use that extra crit HP. Would be nice if we get a button to 'turn DA off' on choice. Would make us more effective for the times we actually need raw HP instead of unabsorbed absorbs.
8 Dwarf Priest
0
yeah, just not enough details yet how it actually will work, but just based on the text...

i think we should keep in mind, before these changes, 5.2 was the first time in several years critical strike seemed like it would be even remotely attractive to disc for healing, despite the crit-based nature of how its mastery functions, and only because it would have been about 3x more valuable to throughput than mastery due to the changes (nerfs) to the spirit shell formula.

i.e., mastery was set to be viewed largely as being good for only one spell (a note to all the captain obviouses out there, i realize that is a problem, thanks) in the disc toolkit, pw: shield, because even though the mastery affects all critical heals, so in theory all (or nearly all) of disc's healing, nobody really considered that getting a critical heal was worth factoring in, because few healers stack critical strike, or in truth if they do, can never reach the levels dps can, so it was said that mastery would, f.a.i.a.p., only affect one spell in the toolkit.

instead, now, a critical heal will be visibly no different than a normal heal, but mastery will visibly and significantly directly increase healing, and also still the absorbs.

my gut feeling is, even if these changes bring secondary stats more in line with each other, and mastery/crit are basically equivalent, this will just completely kill off crit as a viable choice for how to gear as disc.

this is because the unreliability of crit gives it qualitative disadvantages to healing that make it need more raw power to even be worth considering, so while 5.2, with these new changes, might look nice to the mathematicians for balance it will mean there is really only one way to correctly play your priest, stack mastery, so, despite all the effort they're spending, has anything changed, except to make a critical heal "feel" worse than ever? worse even than when healers only got 50% bonus to crit heal.

also confused how this will work for atonement. does this mean we don't get crit damage anymore? currently, crit is decent for atonement focused spec, but its hard to tell if that will remain the case.

i just think, if they're going to give a healer a critical strike based mastery, then that healer should be able to obtain a high level of critical strike to support that, kind of the way most (all?) agility classes can get higher crit easier than others. it just makes sense?

all in all, while i'm not hating the changes presented, i still can't help but feel strangely deflated, as if a pleasure and anticipation i didn't even know i was enjoying has been suddenly exposed, and killed, pierced through the heart by an anti-have-any-other-choices-than-mastery-stacking-even-though-your-mastery-supposedly-relies-on-crit arrow.

so, if blizz is so keen on knowing how people feel, i guess how i feel is that they located an angel of fun, and strangled it to death with more of their pigoeon-hole-your-playstyle game design. i mean, i guess if i'm being charitable they aren't intentionally trying to pigeon hole people. they're just trying to validate their own existence, to make something like this concept they thought up, "mastery," be more than a completely meaningless addition to the game, even if that means they have to crush everything else, so that, relatively speaking, yes mastery is good.

when all is said and done, and considering that few, if any other healing specs want crit at all, except perhaps mistweavers and only them due to recent changes, it kind of feels like critical strike is being designed as the "ha ha we know this stat TOTALLY SUCKS but we're still giving it to you because we need something totally worthless to give you so you don't quit" stat. and, to me, *that* seems like the epitome of bad design, i.e. design that is intentionally not fun, when you have one stat that is always the worst, year after year, in just about every situation, its like, why even have critical strike on healer gear anymore?

devs aren't even trying to make crit useful at all, except maybe for mistweavers. and i think when a stat is intentionally designed to be horrible, that is the same thing as watching someone have to break a kitten's neck. it can be argued that you aren't hurt by watching them do it, and objectively speaking nothing becomes "worse" by the event transpiring, but it does seem to increase the total amount of misery that exists in conscious experience. the difference is only a matter of degree. but as anyone who plays the AH will tell you, its the smallest purchases that can matter most.

"why is there crit on this gear? i don't want this...for any reason? holy GODS why is there so much crit everywhere on all this gear???? WHYYYYYyyyyyyy....." is this how they want players to feel?
90 Human Priest
17065
Big Kolas quote


Ominous whisper: "You...will never...see a big green crit number...again..."
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