Friend of the team

90 Worgen Druid
16890
After reading the thread my input on whether or not having a permanent pug member in a guild team can work is completely dependent on how the team is defined.

If the raid team is the dedicated guild raid team and is a major part of the guild then there will be issues. But if the raid team is more casually defined as just a guild organized pug then it can work to have a permanent pug member. For instance there are roughly 2-3 guild only raid teams in Gag and 1-2 guild + permanent pug teams. The permanent pug teams have had some of those permanent pugs spanning back into Cata and have existed without drama due to their more casually organized nature.

At the end of the day though this is first a choice for the guild to make about how embedded in the guild this raid team is. Once that is decided the issue turns into a discussion between the raid lead and the pug tank to establish boundaries and expectations.
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90 Orc Warrior
17225
People are just going to go with what they want to believe, because they're in guilds that are doing the same thing, or they're doing it themselves. Then, when they bogart on the team, or they get screwed over by it - they pretend it was the person and not the setup.


Except that hasn't ever happened... because I promote a culture of loyalty to each other (the team) and not to an artificial guild tag. Any system that is able to sustain such loyalty is good; it need not be the one you envision.


It's not a good situation to be in - yeah, you work with it, and you give this guy an opportunity to join... but if he's picking "main guild" over you... you've got to ask yourselves some questions. If you're just a casual raid group and raiding isn't the primary focus of your guild, maybe it's an okay situation and you work with it. If it's a guild where a lot of your member are focused on that raid though... you at some point will want to replace him, when someone willing to make a bigger commitment comes along.


This paragraph makes me think that we are discussing disjoint issues. If someone is raiding with us on their alt, and their main is on the same server in another guild... that would be a red flag for me. In that case I would agree with you; your main raid has to be us. But if they are in an RP guild that doesn't raid... and their primary focus in terms of raiding is with us, I don't see an issue. My guild doesn't RP, but have no problems with RP'ers (this is relevant since we are on an RP server).

you have members who are going to look at you asking what the value of the guild is at all.


The raid team came into existence before the guild did. The raid is considered a crown jewel of the guild; having accomplished much and brought a lot of renown for the guild. But the raid is not the guild. Most people in the guild are not raiders and were never recruited to be raiders. We run a pretty decent RBG team, so a large division of PvP people. The rest are just social invites. In our case, the value of the guild is that it's a well-known and active guild with a really good raid team and really good PvPers. I don't see how anyone in the guild who wasn't specifically invited to be a raider can be upset at not getting a raid spot.
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85 Undead Priest
14500
unless you are running a bunch of different poeple (friends) from many different guilds, guild tag has no matter.

but for a guild raid, everyone should be on the same guild.
when your guild is short of 1-2 raiders, you should pug them, yet keep searching for core players to be recruited.

people from different guilds, will have different goals and priorities.
there are some who are not decisive (on this story is the tank that refused to change guild), are people who like to keep their 2 feet on 2 different boats.

a raid guild is supposed to be group of people that are in the same boat.

not sure why there were some marriage analogy in the thread tho lol
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90 Blood Elf Priest
4490
02/17/2013 10:22 PMPosted by Elgunaz
If someone is raiding with us on their alt, and their main is on the same server in another guild... that would be a red flag for me. In that case I would agree with you; your main raid has to be us


that is the situation where the Op is in with the pug tank.. the pug tanks main is in another guild ( what was not clear is was the other guild a raiding guild or something else)

I see your point if the pugs main guild did not raid., then what should it matter if the pug choses to guild his toon with the raiding guild or not.
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1 Tauren Warrior
0
I suppose I should clarify. I apologize for any confusion this might have caused.

The person also raids with his main guild. In fact, he is their raid leader and their guild is much more progressed than us.

As for our guild, we are a full time raiding guild. Semi-casual I would say. We are quite serious about downing content, not the sort of social raid group where guildies/pugs hops on randomly for the sake of killing something for the night.
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90 Orc Warrior
17225
I suppose I should clarify. I apologize for any confusion this might have caused.

The person also raids with his main guild. In fact, he is their raid leader and their guild is much more progressed than us.

As for our guild, we are a full time raiding guild. Semi-casual I would say. We are quite serious about downing content, not the sort of social raid group where guildies/pugs hops on randomly for the sake of killing something for the night.


This does indeed change the situation, and actually is similar to a position I was in last tier. In fact my current raid leader fits the bill of your situation pretty closely. He raided with a more progressed guild on his shaman while tanking for us. He is and was an exceptional player and helped us out a lot (even before he was officially appointed as the raid leader he essentially filled that role; explaining all the fights to us and calling stuff out). I can safely say that we could not have finished heroic DS without him around and certainly could not have achieved our current state of success without his involvement. If at the time I made him choose between his original raid and my raid... he might've still went with us, but that could have had negative ramifications and sour moods.

It really is a grey area since I have seen it go the other way as well. In wrath one of the main tanks of the 25 man raid I was a part of raided as the MT for the server first guild on his warrior, and bailed on us pretty swiftly when his druid (the toon he tanked for us on) was geared.

So it really depends on the specific dynamic of your relationship. No general advice can be applied here without more details.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
4490
02/18/2013 12:30 AMPosted by Burgernobun
The person also raids with his main guild. In fact, he is their raid leader and their guild is much more progressed than us.


Yes I agree this does change everything. I can now see why he can not join your guild even if there was no unspoken rule about joinging other guilds on alts..it would not look all that great to his main guild to have their raid leader joining another guild and raiding with them on his alt.

Given this new information, i would approach your raid team.. How would they feel if you gave him the raid spot permenantly and treated him just like you would a guilded raider? Would they have any objections.. if they are fine with it, then leave things alone.. You might have to explain this special arrangement to new raiders, but just make it clear this is how you have set things up and if they have a problem with it maybe your guild is not for them... But I would feel out your raiders first and see what they think and feel about this guy being a part of the group even though he does not wear the guild tag.. If he is as good as you say he is your guildies should recognize this and want to keep him in the group.. it really does sound like a Win Win situtation, as long as you communicate clearly with all parties.

When new raiders come in or guildies come in you may need to explain the situtation again, this time tell them this is how it is with your guild and if they find it objectionable then maybe your guild is not for them..

Good luck
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