Should Execution Sentence Be Able to Slide?

100 Human Paladin
13800
I was running ret as Lei Shi and as we come out of his hide i hit him with Execution Sentence he puts up the immune barrier and his three adds pop up. Well unless im wrong the Execution Sentence is now wasted have to wait another 60sec to get another one and my 10sec of dps is gone. Now it seems to me in this case why couldn't Execution Sentence should (since its falling from the sky) should be able to slide off the main target it was on and lets say within 10 yards fall upon another target either player or enemy which ever comes first. That way if a boss or something else puts up an immunity say in the first 2sec of the fall it could still even hit a player say the tank and give them 8sec worth of heals or the add give them 8sec of dps. Just feels to me it would make the spell do something as opposed to a total waste if blocked. Now if im reading these effects wrong thats possible all i see is the hammer disappear if its still ticking on them i just haven't seen it. Thanks T
Edited by Tarlon on 2/21/2013 1:36 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13415
I don't know if that's mechanically feasible, but with DBM, technically responsibility for that fight falls largely upon you, since each of her phases is on a set timer. Since two out of three of those phase changes all deal with her becoming immune, it's usually a safe bet to hold onto your cooldowns or abilities at less than 10 seconds remaining until you know which one she's changing to. I know plenty of instances where I've lost cooldowns from not paying attention, but that's player responsibility, not anything inherently wrong with the ability.
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90 Human Paladin
9970
Even without DBM, it's pretty straightforward: use cooldowns immediately after she activates Get Away or comes out of Hide, never when she's been in her normal phase for a while.
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100 Human Paladin
13800
Guys I was just using this fight as an ex of abilities a boss could use to make the spell voided, You could use an ex say a new boss within one minute can use an ability spell you don't know when,that make him immune. The thought is okay the spell is now useless on the boss or first target,should it be completely voided or should it be allowed to keep progressing the whole 10 sec on another target giving heals or dps so it's never wasted and always given its full
potential.
But I do understand your points on DBMS and agree but player responsibility aside I'm just not liking how the mechanic itself is so final. Even once you send it out say with 5 mobs if the first is down in two sec you apply it it's gone why shouldn't it just go to the second target?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13415
Again, that's player responsibility. And your last example wasn't really so great because then why would you have used such a hard hitting ability on a target that was going to go down fast with your normal rotation anyway? Part of the skill of playing an MMO is figuring out the right times when to use your abilities. There's always going to be that risk of wasting an ability or cooldown if you use it wrong.
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90 Human Paladin
9970
If it's a predictable immunity (eg, Lei Shi - Hide is on a timer, immunity happens at specific health thresholds), losing ES to an immunity is the player's own fault.

If it's not, unpredictably having our most powerful attack slide onto another target sounds potentially REALLY problematic in certain encounters.
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100 Human Paladin
13800
Again I was using as an example for the spells finality, and the answer to your question is in lfr I really don't see in switching the spec on trash but its beside the point.
Let me try this another way if I throw down lights hammer for 16 sec
No matter what's going on, the boss is immune what ever, it
is completing its spell no matter what,even if the boss is immune,players around
are being healed any other enemies are being damaged. Same with holy prisim if It the boss with it even if immune it heals the other players and vice versa yes I know this is an instant spell but point being also in this mechanic it will complete its spell to its full potential.
Now I understand your point players have a responsibilt but that's not my question, the question is why of these other two spells no matter what can be used to there full potential
why can't this last spell( execution sentence) be used the same way, I know right now as the spell is designed you have to watch what your doing and great but wouldn't and more to the point shouldn't this spell act like the other two? So if I throw it can always be maximized like the other two ??
Edited by Tarlon on 2/21/2013 2:53 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
12030
Because spell mechanics.
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100 Human Paladin
13800
Ravicana can you give examples ?? My thinking would be its such a short window even if the boss goes immune or the target dies, it would eventually hit a player and fissile out.??? But would love to hear your concerns ??
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100 Human Paladin
13800
I know as spell mechanics work right now but if they could change? Would that be a bad thing ?
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90 Human Paladin
12030
There's no reason to change this ability. There are no bosses that have a 'random' immunity, and if they did change the ability, then there would be an outcry of classes asking for their abilities being able to 'slide'.

Please, give me another example of a boss where you have this issue, I guarantee you that any possibility of losing the ES is based on player error. Pay more attention, don't lose a minute CD.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13415
One example I can think of is Wind Lord. You cast Execution Sentence just as a bug dies, but instead of jumping to a player, it jumps to one of the mobs that was supposed to remain CC'd. Surprise, you just ticked off your raid.

Or it heals a player who receives a debuff when you cast healing spells on him (this is technically an older raid mechanic I don't remember quite well, but it's feasible they'd bring something like that back).

Your implementation could lead to nasty problems regarding who it goes onto because of proximity issues, because you could never really control who it goes to next. And frankly, you're asking for a babysitting mechanic that the ability just doesn't need.
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90 Human Paladin
9970
In any fight that involves adds you want to not kill, or that you want to kill at certain times, or in certain places, or etc, having your ES uncontrollably shift onto such an add would be pretty detrimental.

Other spells work differently than ES because they are not ES. That whole differences/advantages/disadvantages thing that makes spells actually interesting to use. If you use the ability wrong and lose most of its benefit - well, that's a mistake. Don't do that. You're not supposed to get full benefit from making mistakes. That's why we call them mistakes.
02/21/2013 03:11 AMPosted by Jackishi
Or it heals a player who receives a debuff when you cast healing spells on him (this is technically an older raid mechanic I don't remember quite well, but it's feasible they'd bring something like that back).

I'm not sure Amber-Shaper counts as old mechanics :p
Edited by Ravicana on 2/21/2013 3:14 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13415
02/21/2013 03:11 AMPosted by Ravicana
Or it heals a player who receives a debuff when you cast healing spells on him (this is technically an older raid mechanic I don't remember quite well, but it's feasible they'd bring something like that back).

I'm not sure Amber-Shaper counts as old mechanics :p


Oh wow, you're absolutely right. =D I forgot if they added any current ones, and having never done Amber Shaper normal...

...I still can't remember any of the old raid bosses that had a no-heal policy, though. Hrm. Shows how much I blocked off Holy...
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100 Human Paladin
13800
I want thinking of it as a babysitting mechanic, just was thinking of it as a 100%
non fully functional mechanic, compared to the other two mechanics and how that spell could be made more like them but those are good points.
Hence why I asked the question.
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90 Human Paladin
12030
Let's say a Warlock used Haunt just as Hide or Protectors happened, this costs them a Soulshard. Why should we be able to have our ability work vs them losing a soulshard? Should the soulshard be refunded? Should the DoT apply to a nearer target? Should the boss just fall over and remove any chance of making any mistakes?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13415
I want thinking of it as a babysitting mechanic, just was thinking of it as a 100%
non fully functional mechanic


I get what you're saying, but even then, it still doesn't change the fact that such an implementation would basically be trying to cover poor usage of an ability. Besides, just because say, you're DPSing a boss who suddenly became immune for whatever reason and you use Holy Prism or Light's Hammer. Just because you're healing others doesn't mean it wasn't a waste, you just lost valuable DPS uptime on the boss, it's just that the healing is a bonus that the ability is balanced around. Meanwhile, Execution Sentence was balanced around being able to be used to either dish a steady stream of damage OR healing over 10 seconds, with all the risks inherent.
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100 Human Paladin
13800
I honestly don't know enough about warlocks to try and give an answer I always wear plate and my question was for this class not there's. but if a warlock was asking those questions and haunt is a talent and it wasnt working up to par with the other two maybe some sort of fix should be the answer but I wasn't arguing about not making mistakes I can make mistakes with all three spells I can make a mistake with prism light and ES it was what happened after I made the mistake. If I throw prism I may make a mistake that the boss is immune but the others around him are healed, if I throw light no where near the boss again a mistake but people can still stand in it and be healed. But if I throw ES nothing else happens. Btw any boss that leaves are plane which I can name at least one in wrath the hammer disappears so this whole notion this is the only boss doesn't fly I can tell you two which means there could be more and in different scenarios.
But like I said above the other two points about proximity I can see don't really think it could happen with the short time and window but at least I see there Pov
Edited by Tarlon on 2/21/2013 4:06 AM PST
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100 Human Paladin
13800
Understand Jack that just were you and I disagree I don't think of it as a waste I guess that comes from being a tank any extra heal even if its on the after thought of a mistake seems benificial to me helps healers and tanks now by all means I don't think this shouldn't be the priority but if the other two spells can do that, and like you said above it didn't destroy proximity so cc mobs weren't effected I would love it if it missed to heal a player. Heck even if I use it as a tank would be nice if it could fall back on me to heal me
Edited by Tarlon on 2/21/2013 4:16 AM PST
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