Sentry Totem 177: Another Totem in the Wall

100 Pandaren Shaman
21105
Then you'd be a man
90 Draenei Mage
10355
Only skimming, but: Assuming tier can't be thunderforged, you should probably replace the weakest itemized of chest/legs/helm. Gaining 6 ilevels worth of those pieces>6 ilevels of gloves/shoulders
90 Pandaren Shaman
14370
http://www.totemspot.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6931&p=83599&viewfull=1#post83599

You can see the relative stat gain for off-setting tier pieces there. Helm is the lowest out of chest/legs/helm (not +ilvl, just a better socket bonus), but it also allows us to drop the largest chunk of hit or expertise rating, so we may end up being forced down that road either way.
Edited by Purge on 2/14/2013 3:05 PM PST
100 Pandaren Shaman
21105
I'm curious why the hit/exp weapon is above the fan?
90 Orc Shaman
10050
02/14/2013 03:03 PMPosted by Purge
You can see the relative stat gain for off-setting tier pieces there. Helm is the lowest out of chest/legs/helm (not +ilvl, just a better socket bonus), but it also allows us to drop the largest chunk of hit or expertise rating, so we may end up being forced down that road either way.


What about the gloves, though?

Both the helmet and gloves offpieces are crit and haste. Now the helmet does have a reputable socket bonus, but when taking into account the difference between the pieces what you would end up seeing is:

(Call this, "Figure A")

+260 agility, 180 Mastery for the offpiece helmet
+240 agility for the tier gloves

vs.

("Figure B")

+80 agility, 180 Mastery, 180 crit for the tier helmet
+440 agility for the offpiece gloves

Considering the huge amount of agility brought by the gloves, you would end up getting more agility from the glove offpiece socket + bonus than you would with the offpiece helmet. Plus, you would end up getting the extra addition of some crit on top of it.

EDIT: This post is ALL about the bonuses on the pieces, not the raw stats. Just to clarify. Though, again, reiterating the point that both the helm and gloves offpieces have the same two secondary stats (crit and haste).

EDIT 2: My mind decides to !@#$ with me when I'm trying to do simple math sometimes, so I was off by 40 agi on the gloves. Changed the result to the correct value.
Edited by Platform on 2/14/2013 4:03 PM PST
100 Pandaren Shaman
21105
It might be an issue of Hit vs Expertise. A lot of the other pieces (ring, shoulders, neck) have hit, but few with expertise.
90 Pandaren Shaman
14370
02/14/2013 03:34 PMPosted by Platform
You can see the relative stat gain for off-setting tier pieces there. Helm is the lowest out of chest/legs/helm (not +ilvl, just a better socket bonus), but it also allows us to drop the largest chunk of hit or expertise rating, so we may end up being forced down that road either way.


What about the gloves, though?

Both the helmet and gloves offpieces are crit and haste. Now the helmet does have a reputable socket bonus, but when taking into account the difference between the pieces what you would end up seeing is:

(Call this, "Figure A")

+260 agility, 180 Mastery for the offpiece helmet
+240 agility for the tier gloves

vs.

("Figure B")

+80 agility, 180 Mastery, 180 crit for the tier helmet
+440 agility for the offpiece gloves

Considering the huge amount of agility brought by the gloves, you would end up getting more agility from the glove offpiece socket + bonus than you would with the offpiece helmet. Plus, you would end up getting the extra addition of some crit on top of it.

EDIT: This post is ALL about the bonuses on the pieces, not the raw stats. Just to clarify. Though, again, reiterating the point that both the helm and gloves offpieces have the same two secondary stats (crit and haste).

EDIT 2: My mind decides to !@#$ with me when I'm trying to do simple math sometimes, so I was off by 40 agi on the gloves. Changed the result to the correct value.

Yes, but we're approaching the realm of insanity where single items are able to provide nearly 2/3 of your hit or expertise cap requirements, so we're probably going to need to avoid those stats wherever possible to avoid overshooting the caps by hilarious margins.
90 Orc Shaman
10050
02/14/2013 04:09 PMPosted by Purge
Yes, but we're approaching the realm of insanity where single items are able to provide nearly 2/3 of your hit or expertise cap requirements, so we're probably going to need to avoid those stats wherever possible to avoid overshooting the caps by hilarious margins.


Exactly. The tier helmet has hit, whereas the tier gloves has expertise. Running with Figure A would sacrifice unnecessary hit, whereas Figure B would sacrifice unnecessary expertise. The only difference is that you also get more secondary (as well as a little bit of agility) stats from Figure B than you do A.
90 Pandaren Shaman
14370
02/14/2013 04:13 PMPosted by Platform
Yes, but we're approaching the realm of insanity where single items are able to provide nearly 2/3 of your hit or expertise cap requirements, so we're probably going to need to avoid those stats wherever possible to avoid overshooting the caps by hilarious margins.


Exactly. The tier helmet has hit, whereas the tier gloves has expertise. Running with Figure A would sacrifice unnecessary hit, whereas Figure B would sacrifice unnecessary expertise. The only difference is that you also get more secondary (as well as a little bit of agility) stats from Figure B than you do A.

But there is much less expertise on T15 gear than there is hit rating, unless you decide to use renataki as one of your trinkets.
90 Orc Shaman
10050
02/14/2013 04:27 PMPosted by Purge
But there is much less expertise on T15 gear than there is hit rating, unless you decide to use renataki as one of your trinkets.


Wouldn't we be using Renataki's anyways?

Assuming RoRO isn't very good, the only other choices would be Bad Juju/Talisman. I'm assuming we're going to be using Talisman though.
Edited by Platform on 2/14/2013 4:37 PM PST
90 Pandaren Shaman
14370
02/14/2013 04:36 PMPosted by Platform
But there is much less expertise on T15 gear than there is hit rating, unless you decide to use renataki as one of your trinkets.


Wouldn't we be using Renataki's anyways?

Assuming RoRO isn't very good, the only other choices would be Bad Juju/Talisman. I'm assuming we're going to be using Talisman though.

Not necessarily.

I haven't made an enhancement T15 set yet, but if this feral sim is any indication, we might end up using T14 trinkets:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1086121/simc_profiles/Druid/Feral/T15H/trinkets/results.html
100 Pandaren Shaman
21105
02/14/2013 04:27 PMPosted by Purge
But there is much less expertise on T15 gear than there is hit rating, unless you decide to use renataki as one of your trinkets.

That's what I said!

Edit: wtf Bottle
Edited by Rude on 2/14/2013 4:41 PM PST
90 Draenei Shaman
12770
02/14/2013 03:34 PMPosted by Platform
I'm trying to do simple math


giggity
90 Orc Shaman
10050
I haven't made an enhancement T15 set yet, but if this feral sim is any indication, we might end up using T14 trinkets:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1086121/simc_profiles/Druid/Feral/T15H/trinkets/results.html


WTF.jpg
100 Troll Shaman
19105
02/14/2013 03:34 PMPosted by Platform
I'm trying to do simple math
I feel violated. :(
90 Pandaren Shaman
14370
I haven't made an enhancement T15 set yet, but if this feral sim is any indication, we might end up using T14 trinkets:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1086121/simc_profiles/Druid/Feral/T15H/trinkets/results.html


WTF.jpg

It looks like all of the T15 trinket procs are undertuned. Histortically, the average value of the proc provides more raw stats than the passive stat on the trinket, but with pretty much all of these trinkets, the opposite is true. Based on that sim:

Talisman of Bloodlust (535): 1657 agi + ~1481.3 haste (~89.4% passive)
Bad Juju (535): 1657 mastery + ~1494.4 agility (~90.2% passive)
Renataki's (535): 1657 expertise + ~1635.2 agility (~98.7% passive)

Compare that to:

Bottle of Infinite Stars (510): 1313 mastery + ~1646.4 agility (~125.4% passive)
Terror in the Mists (517): 1401 agility + ~1677.0 crit (~119.7% passive)

Additionally, the T14 trinket proc mechanics (set ICD + high proc chance) make them more predictable than the RealPPM system, so you can more easily line your cooldowns up with the procs.

It wouldn't be entirely inappropriate if they decided to buff the T15 trinket uptimes by 1.2-1.4x
Edited by Purge on 2/14/2013 5:08 PM PST
90 Worgen Warlock
14465
Caster trinket that grants 100% crit chance for 4 seconds.

It's actually probably going to be godly for affliction since crit is snapshot on the cast of a DoT

And a warlock getting a chaos bolt off during it will be hilarious.
Edited by Varlth on 2/14/2013 5:23 PM PST
90 Troll Shaman
14215
why would people do this?

I zone into the valentines day holiday boss.. mage pops time warp, says 'stupid shaman' and initiates a kick against me, dumb!@#$s go with it despite the debuff saying 'temporal displacement'

/smh

ohh well, wasted 12 minutes of my life >_>
Edited by Trollinthndr on 2/14/2013 5:39 PM PST
90 Pandaren Shaman
13920
I don't care what sims say, I'm using the gnome trinket.
90 Troll Shaman
12095
O.O

Dem trinket sims.

Heres hoping we can kill Lei shi and I get super lucky :P
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