Trying to Understand Solo Prot...

90 Tauren Paladin
11200
So anyways, I have two paladins: This one, and my Alliance Ret.

Ret isn't too bad, but yet I miss good ole prot. I used to be Prot a lot back during Wrath and Cataclysm, but now in MoP... I don't know.

Something just doesn't seem right.

I also have a Prot Warrior and a Blood DK, and I'm going to say right now, that the Prot Paladin appears to be far, far, far squishier than a Blood DK while putting out nowhere near the same damage, slightly better survivability than the Prot Warrior, but yet slightly lower damage.

Unless, of course, I'm missing something.

Tried doing Domination Point dailies today as Prot, and I found that if I had more than 3 mobs on me at once, my Word of Glory could not keep up with the incoming damage, despite me being Prot. Yes, I know I'm wearing DPS gear, but sheesh...

My Blood DK, back when he was wearing practically the same gear, could eat 6-8 of those guys for Breakfast and come back for more while I struggled with 3-4 of them with this paladin.

Nothing on my hotkey bar actually really does much damage whatsoever, except Avenger's Shield and Holy Wrath (which splits up amongst targets), meanwhile DKs get Death Strikes that routinely hit for 70k+ crits AND it healed them for a large amount of their health.

Holy Power gain appears to be kinda slow, AND to get a decent heal, we have to use SotR -- which eats up our Holy Power at the same time. Judgment, and CS/HotR are our only two sources of Holy Power unless we get the rare free Avenger's proc.

So... using a 3 WoG heal = pfft, barely budges my health. Using WoG when 5 stacks of the buff = Good Heal, but eh... that's 30 HoPo worth just for one good heal. Odds are, I probably need healing far sooner than that if I'm fighting any number of mobs whatsoever.

To top it all off, to survive as Prot solo, you are pretty much forced to use Insight, which is yet another of the many cuts to our DPS.

I'm starting to think I miss Cata's Prot Paladin... it felt a heck of a lot better than this. Unless, of course, I'm missing something big. Tried reading the sticky on Prot Paladins, but it doesn't cover solo play whatsoever and if I'm going to gear this character as Prot, switching to Ret will most likely suck bigtime, as far as DPS goes and I'll have even less survivability.

A few notes about this character:

1). Yes, I know I'm using an agility sword. However, until a 463 drops from Heroics... I don't have anything better. The next-best is a 437 as I did the AoA when I was Ret and took the Ret 2-hander.

2). I am going to soon make a full suit of the 450 tank armor and shield whenever I get a few more Trillium bars. Although, swapping out DPS gear will only make my DPS suck even more in solo play... hopefully it'll add some survivability though.
Edited by Migina on 2/14/2013 4:38 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
13415
Comparing apples and oranges there. DK's going to do better with that type of gear you have on simply because it affects them better (and Blood DKs are OP anyway, but I digress...)

You're basically just not doing it right, no offense. A lot of it really is your gear - we're a gear reliant class, and you have so many crit items when Crit's basically worthless for Paladins, and very little in the Mastery end, which is a lot of where your mitigation comes from (right now you're getting only 8% bonus damage reduction, which is...not good). If you were to get DPS gear, at LEAST get Haste/Mastery items, which will help you a lot better than those items you have equipped ever will. I'd say at this point, you may as well buy the green quest vendor tank items, since they'll help you out more than this gear will.

Also, keep Seal of Insight on - the marginal DPS increase from Truth and Righteousness isn't that great. One thing to note is that Prot kills single mobs slow, but multiple targets extremely well and faster thanks to Vengeance ramping up (which, by the way, also affects Seal of Insight heals). Use HotR and SotR on cooldown to keep your mitigation up, let Consecration and Holy Wrath burn em down. Spec into Light's Hammer for extra AoE damage and healing for group pulls.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
I use the HH agility sword and full dps gear to tank instances with very bored healers.. my wogs break 150k but I rarely even need to use them.

Even with your gear, you really shouldn't be having the kind of problems you're describing. I've watched random rets on my server in full contender's pull 4-5 domination point mobs and kill them. Dps gear is what you want to wear for dailies, crit included. You don't need the avoidance that traditional tanking gear has for those kind of things.

Execution sentence is really lackluster for tanking.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Paladin
11200
Comparing apples and oranges there. DK's going to do better with that type of gear you have on simply because it affects them better (and Blood DKs are OP anyway, but I digress...)

You're basically just not doing it right, no offense. A lot of it really is your gear - we're a gear reliant class, and you have so many crit items when Crit's basically worthless for Paladins, and very little in the Mastery end, which is a lot of where your mitigation comes from (right now you're getting only 8% bonus damage reduction, which is...not good). If you were to get DPS gear, at LEAST get Haste/Mastery items, which will help you a lot better than those items you have equipped ever will. I'd say at this point, you may as well buy the green quest vendor tank items, since they'll help you out more than this gear will.

Also, keep Seal of Insight on - the marginal DPS increase from Truth and Righteousness isn't that great. One thing to note is that Prot kills single mobs slow, but multiple targets extremely well and faster thanks to Vengeance ramping up (which, by the way, also affects Seal of Insight heals). Use HotR and SotR on cooldown to keep your mitigation up, let Consecration and Holy Wrath burn em down. Spec into Light's Hammer for extra AoE damage and healing for group pulls.


Well, as I said about the gear, I am going to make her a full set of tank armor including shield.

I dunno, I think I'm just having the nostalgic feeling and missing Cata's prot. Blah.

I'll try making tank armor and see how that feels.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Paladin
11200
I use the HH agility sword and full dps gear to tank instances with very bored healers.. my wogs break 150k but I rarely even need to use them.

Even with your gear, you really shouldn't be having the kind of problems you're describing. I've watched random rets on my server in full contender's pull 4-5 domination point mobs and kill them. Dps gear is what you want to wear for dailies, crit included. You don't need the avoidance that traditional tanking gear has for those kind of things.

Execution sentence is really lackluster for tanking.


Rets can pump WoGs every 6-7 seconds thanks to having THREE Holy Power Builders instead of just two. AND their Art of War gives them ANOTHER Holy Power.

It takes Prots a lot longer to get those WoGs and they heal for a lot less % of health, because of the fact only TWO abilities actually give Holy Power unless you get the rare Avenger's proc.

My Ret gets 3 HoPo about 3x as often as my Prot does. Rets also kill things a LOT faster... so... pull 4 mobs... first mob is dead before they have to worry about self-healing. When they do self heal, bam bam back up to full and another mob is almost dead.

Prot has to slowly whittle them all down at once, and the HoPo gain is very slow.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
I'd sure feel silly if I was talking about using a 1h agility sword as ret.

The only thing slow about when I do things as prot is how long it takes me to gather enough mobs to be interesting. While wearing dps gear.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
12105
I do dailies as protection with no issues. The basic idea is:

1) use seal of insight

2) round up tons of mobs

Seal healing is awesome (too good to pass up) because it benefits from vengeance. Tons of mobs = more vengeance = more healing.

Seriously if a daily says "kill 10 of this mob" I go and round up all 10, then mow them down. I used to take a bit longer to do it when I had crappy gear though, so that might be what you're experiencing.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
9970
Survival should definitely not be an issue; between Seal of Insight and Sacred Shield, you have a considerable amount of fairly automatic mitigation/healing. Spamming WoG on yourself is almost never necessary; use SotR for the damage reduction buff and let the Bastion buff stack up for whenever you do happen to need a WoG.

Crit gear is less than ideal for Prot, but for dailies it really shouldn't make much difference. Prot damage IS rather dependent on Vengeance, unfortunately, and it's hard to build much Vengeance while questing. Holy Power is slower than for Ret, but not hugely so; you have CS/Judge/Grand Crusader instead of CS/Judge/Exorcism.

Do note that, at least for the remainder of 5.1, you don't even want to wear tank gear. Haste/mastery is the way to go for Prot. 5.2 will make tank gear less unattractive, but haste will still be a fine stat; any gear without crit is a viable prot piece.
Edited by Ravicana on 2/14/2013 7:00 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
13415
Dps gear is what you want to wear for dailies, crit included. You don't need the avoidance that traditional tanking gear has for those kind of things.


To be fair, this is true. I guess the reason I like wearing my tank gear in dailies is because I like that added layer of security (however much needed or not) while watching those mobs whittle themselves down to nothing. Then again, I've seen lesser geared Prots than I have literally solo the entirety of the Operation: Shieldwall area, so again, your mileage may vary depending on how you're handling pulls.

02/14/2013 05:53 PMPosted by Migina
I dunno, I think I'm just having the nostalgic feeling and missing Cata's prot. Blah.


You could never take me back to Cata Prot, not after how great things feel now. One thing I forgot to mention - get glyph of Alabaster Shield. It's pretty much the only 'required' glyph for Prot, and if you feel like mobs are still taking you down hard, there's always glyphed Divine Protection.
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Paladin
11320
the gear is not your problem honestly. What is the problem is your stats you have way to low of a hit and expertise percentage. %7.5 for both is a must you get those two up and you will see a world of difference in how your pali is. I even before I got geared never had a single bit of problem on my prot. I agree tho crit is a wasted stat on us. reforge out of crit to hit and expertise. I know this was mainly your ret gear but even as ret you need %7.5 for both hit and expertise.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Paladin
11200
Update:

Got her 450 suit made, as armory SHOULD show that now.

Took a few glyphs, and took her out.

She's doing quite a bit better now, she doesn't feel anywhere near as squishy. I still think I miss the ole "DPS" model tank, but meh. I think I can get used to this eventually.

At least she's not taking a crapton of damage every time I pull a few mobs now, so it isn't so bad.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
13415
One thing to keep in mind - if your health bar's not dropping much, and your enemies are falling too slowly, you haven't pulled enough mobs. Pull more - Vengeance will take care of you.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Hunter
5345
02/16/2013 01:45 AMPosted by Jackishi
One thing to keep in mind - if your health bar's not dropping much, and your enemies are falling too slowly, you haven't pulled enough mobs. Pull more - Vengeance will take care of you.

qft
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]