Rdruid's/Hpriest's (late game thoughts)

90 Blood Elf Priest
7080
I was thinking about 5.2 and the buff/nerfs that are going out associzted with it, and how it affects each healing class. I think that druids need something other than what they are getting personally, and holy needs a touch that they aren't getting.

Druid:

The problem with druids (overarching from reading forum posts and having played the class previously) is that during bursts of damage they fall pretty far behind because of the NO REJUVE BLANKET vs NO SPAMABLE issues
Rejuv blanket vs Spammable: the druid model changed such that rejuvenate blaketing is discouraged (mana cap and spirit limitations guarantee this) BUT there hasnt been a good alternative introduced to take the place of this (mushrooms are an awkward, clunky mechanic that doesnt introduce the necessary spell to fill this spot)
If we look at other healers:
Hpali: Holy Radiance (Spammable: Unlimited targets, limited range) Light of Dawn (Subsidiary: limited targets, good range)
Priest: Prayer of Healing (Spammable: Limited targets, good range) Circle of Healing (Subsidiary: limited targets, good range)
Shaman[has slightly different senergy]: Healing rain (Subsidiary: unlimited targets, limited range) Chain heal (Spammable: Limited targets: Limited range[smart healing as opposed to PoH's "dumb bomb" tech])
Monk: Spinning Crane Kick (Spammable: unlimited targets, limited range) Uplift (Subsidiary[glyphed spammable]: Limited targets[higher than CH or PoH], UNLIMITED range)
Now we get to druids,
DRUIDS: Wild Growth (Subsidiary: Limited targets, good range) [blank] ( Spammable: Limited targets, good range OR Unlimited targets, limited range)

The issue is that druids desnt have the burst AoE spell that every other class does, and personally (and from what i have read) Mushrooms do not fill this niche BECAUSE they have a ground limitation (one that healing rain shares) but do not heal for as much and arent as good. I think the key to fixing druids isn't encouraging them to over heal to get giant 'shrooms but to indroduce a spammable AoE comprable to HRadiance or PoH with the target or range limitation simular to what other classses have

Possibilities:

Spirit of the Wild: Channeled(2 seconds), Heales for XXXXX amount each second, Costs each second, Hits everyone in 8-12 yards
Basically like mass rejuvenate (comparable to HRadiance) with a mana cost simular and healing through put (21k mana, VERY high per cast)
Mass Nourishment: Caste time (2.5 sec), heales 4-5 for XXXXX amount followed by XXXX for X seconds, Hits targets within 25-30 yards
Name sake, Basicaly like mass nourish, would be the spammalbe version of wild growth having the same good range and smart heal mechanic or simular to PoH with smart healing (13.5k mana, moderate healing because of low cost)

I also have concerns about holy priest (I should say that i have no issues with their shear output, but with their mana), they/we are currently parsing out pretty high but i feel that there is a issue with the mana regen that we have baring us from actually joining the pack. [I'm not going to link Raidbots because there is a small number of holy priests actually on these parses]

It would be nice to have a refeshed mana regen mechanic (barring minbender and Hymn of Hope, altho i love these) even if its something based link like a shaman's water shield or something dynamic like a rDuids lifebloom mechanic or disc priests rapture.
Edited by Dárkkpráÿèr on 2/14/2013 5:54 PM PST
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90 Draenei Priest
6645
Hpriests are going to be *very* good in 5.2. The 2t15 bonus alone is freaking amazing for them, and Solace could be interesting depending on how it's implemented.

The main issue with them honestly is just how good disc was in 5.1, and how awkward Chakra is to use (funny that Seal Twisting is meant to be something Blizzard wants to avoid for pallies while pushing the same horrible mechanic onto priests).

As far as Druids go, it's a variety of things.
- reliance on hots in a very bursty damage environment.
- mana issues.
- underwhelming cooldowns.
- underwhelming AOE in 25s.
- Rejuv blanketting gutted since Cata.
- Reliance on static aoe heal in a mobile, spread environment.
- No 'go to' big heal.
- Nourish is barely worth casting.
- Mushrooms are Lightwell V2. Clunky, immobile and nowhere near as good in actuality as they are on paper.

What druids *need* is:
- something like Chain Heal. A bursty, reliable aoe heal.
- Mushrooms getting the lightwell treatment. Turn them into smartheal turrets that soak up and redistribute overhealing as needed.
- Rejuv duration significantly extended.

Right there, I'd be happy.
Edited by Eclipsé on 2/14/2013 5:44 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7080
I am personally looking forward to playing holy in 5.2 (no qq about disc there just fell that i can play holy now without jipping the group) and ya i feel that holy has great output, but sort of limited mana options.

YES!!! i aggree completely with what you said about druids (realizing that I accedentally posted halfway through and had to go back and edit to finish. Lol.)
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90 Draenei Priest
6645
Holy is nifty, and I'm also looking forward to doing dailies in the better dps Chakra.

Really, really, really hope that druids get some more attention before 5.2 goes live though.
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22 Tauren Shaman
190
Resto Druids need a redesign if they hope more people would play them for fun. Whether through a redesigned toolkit or an added resource besides mana. Sadly it doesn't look like it will ever happen. MoP didn't fix them in the slightest and whether they will be fixed in the future at all is dim.
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90 Tauren Druid
8680

- Mushrooms are Lightwell V2. Clunky, immobile and nowhere near as good in actuality as they are on paper.


The ultimate fix for shrooms is without a doubt having them grow on the druid. Or another player. Let's hope these shrooms do not get the lightwell treatment and we wait years before it's even useful.


What druids *need* is:
- something like Chain Heal. A bursty, reliable aoe heal.


This is wild growth. Buff it a bit = fixed.

What druids *need* is:
- Mushrooms getting the lightwell treatment. Turn them into smartheal turrets that soak up and redistribute overhealing as needed.

I like the detonate mechanic. It's the variable mechanic that is utterly terrible for shrooms; ie, Where's the raid going to be in 45secs when I pop these? This is why my earlier suggestion fixes mushrooms completely.


- Rejuv duration significantly extended.


I absolutely disagree. I would hate that. That just waters down our job. You extend rejuv and you have rejuv on the entire raid. Right now in 10man you could spam rejuv and just as you finish blanketing a 10man raid, the first rejuv falls off. You extend this duration and you have full and complete rejuv coverage with ease. I do not like this.
Rejuv blanketing should be costly yet very effective. I do not find it very enjoyable to sit there (as in Cata) and spam one spell.

It is effective, it's just costly. Moreover, current co-healers have certain mechanics that are far OP, and raid mechanics this tier are terrible and spikey. We need more constant damage mechanics such as blade lord phase 2 and MV stone guards. These are the two fights off the top of my head that Resto Druid mechanics reallly shine.

Sum it up, shrooms need help. Rejuv = fine. Blizzard needs more variety in raid mechanics in terms of damage type/output.
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90 Tauren Druid
12145
If i had any say in it I would:

Increase the radius of swiftmend, there's been a few times where I needed to swiftmend a tank and becuase of some of the large hit boxes it wouldn't even reach melee.

make nourish our "oh noes" spell, increase the healing done, decrease the cast time, but increase the mana cost.

as for shrooms hmmm idk maybe something like have them regrow every thirty seconds after being popped and have them last 10-15 minutes, or regrow after 1 minute and any overhealing from them turns into an absorbtion. But keep the GCDs per each so stop us from moving them around all the time.
Edited by Wtboraltreat on 2/15/2013 1:18 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7080
What druids *need* is:- something like Chain Heal. A bursty, reliable aoe heal.This is wild growth. Buff it a bit = fixed.

The issues there is that Wild growth isn't spammble perse, its more of a Circle of healing/Light of Dawn type(i realize LoD uses a diferent resource) its not a true PoH/HRadiance/CH/SCK type and thats what druids lack at the moment. Plus rejuv blanket my be effective for say tsulong or garalon, but for burst its gotta be pretty terrible, all the spec needs is something to compete with the spells that every other healers has a true spammable AoE spell

Mushrooms are Lightwell V2. Clunky, immobile and nowhere near as good in actuality as they are on paper. The ultimate fix for shrooms is without a doubt having them grow on the druid. Or another player. Let's hope these shrooms do not get the lightwell treatment and we wait years before it's even useful.


I feel having them do something along the lines of cascade you be really nice, say...
You drop them, then every 15-30 second you use the bloom and it sends out some sort of healing to X number of raid members within 20 yards or so. Sort of like they are emmiting the healing on demand.

02/15/2013 01:16 AMPosted by Wtboraltreat
make nourish our "oh noes" spell, increase the healing done, decrease the cast time, but increase the mana cost.


I believe Regrowth already holds that spot.
Edited by Dárkkpráÿèr on 2/15/2013 7:33 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7080
02/14/2013 10:47 PMPosted by Tonydanza
Sum it up, shrooms need help. Rejuv = fine. Blizzard needs more variety in raid mechanics in terms of damage type/output.


Theres a couple of types of damage this teir really; Tsulong and Garalong are both sustained AoE, where tsulong brings in extreme single target to the mix, HFeng brings extended burst damage(epicenter, AVelocity), Heroic SG has (depending on the combo) constant AoE with single bursts, Blade lord is EXTREMELY bursty in p1, followed by static raid damage, finnaly Empress is bursts of AoE leading into almost constant AoE at the end. This is not mentioning the Tank damage in Will and Lei Shi.

So, Static AoE(pNight, Tsulong), Static w/ Burst Aoe(Garalon), Single w/ AoE phases (Will of the Emp/pDay Tsulong), Long Burst(Feng), and "Pop up" burst(Bladelord/Dogs)
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
02/14/2013 05:32 PMPosted by Dárkkpráÿèr
I think that druids need something other than what they are getting personally, and holy needs a touch that they aren't getting.


Holy is powerful already. Druids need mushrooms still worked on. Maybe a tweek to WG.
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90 Human Priest
11315
I am personally looking forward to playing holy in 5.2 (no qq about disc there just fell that i can play holy now without jipping the group) and ya i feel that holy has great output, but sort of limited mana options.



Holy mana is fine. I *very* rarely run OOM. I bet your problem is that you're casting expensive spells when you shouldn't be.

Common issues I see when holy priests run OOM:

1. Overuse of PoH
when only 1-2 people need a heal. Use Heal instead.

2. Overuse of HW: Sanctuary. Don't drop this circle on the ground unless you KNOW that it's going to get used. If it's all overheal, you've wasted your mana. If people move out of it too early, you've wasted your mana. Generally not worth casting in 10-man in most situations except things like Elegon P3. I use it more in 25's on the melee.

3. Abusing GHeal. Stop it if you're doing it. Really. You don't need to bomb someone with GHeal who's loaded up on HoTs. Save it for tanks.

4. Not enough PoM. You should be using PoM often.

5. Bad Cascade timing. Don't use it when people are missing less than 100k HP.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
I am personally looking forward to playing holy in 5.2 (no qq about disc there just fell that i can play holy now without jipping the group) and ya i feel that holy has great output, but sort of limited mana options.



Holy mana is fine. I *very* rarely run OOM. I bet your problem is that you're casting expensive spells when you shouldn't be.

Common issues I see when holy priests run OOM:

1. Overuse of PoH
when only 1-2 people need a heal. Use Heal instead.

2. Overuse of HW: Sanctuary. Don't drop this circle on the ground unless you KNOW that it's going to get used. If it's all overheal, you've wasted your mana. If people move out of it too early, you've wasted your mana. Generally not worth casting in 10-man in most situations except things like Elegon P3. I use it more in 25's on the melee.

3. Abusing GHeal. Stop it if you're doing it. Really. You don't need to bomb someone with GHeal who's loaded up on HoTs. Save it for tanks.

4. Not enough PoM. You should be using PoM often.

5. Bad Cascade timing. Don't use it when people are missing less than 100k HP.


The problem with what you're saying, Aria, is that it's not entirely true for content that you're a) underhealing or b) undergeared for.
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