The Ret Issue: A Possible Solution

100 Human Paladin
So I have a proposed change to Seal of Justice and burden of guilt that may make it quite used in PvP.

The new Seal of Justice would be something as follows:
Causes your melee attacks (would also include judgment) to slow the enemy by x% stacking y times. When your target reaches y stacks, they are rooted by holy chains for z seconds, taking n% increased damage from the paladin.

The number of stacks should not be low enough that it has no chance to be countered, and also not high enough that it can be countered every time. The roots would be on its own DR to prevent not wanting to play with other classes that also have roots.

The increase in damage taken by the paladin should be significant enough that you would prefer it over truth even if the roots get dispelled/countered a few times.

  • Gives ret more damage outside of cooldowns. Damage in root would surpass Truth damage had Truth been used the whole time
  • Ret would have a decent peel to save a healer
  • If healer dispels root, you and your teammates other magical abilities cannot be dispelled for a good chunk of time
  • Justice would be the go-to PvP seal
  • Justice would not be able to be used in PvE except for perhaps very limited situations
  • Cons:
  • The slow would start off at a lower percentage and therefore would not be too significant until higher stacks
  • Dispels, freedoms, AMS, intervene, etc. can counter this root
  • Slightly weaker damage when target is not rooted than if Truth was used
  • No DoT to keep stealth classes out of stealth
  • Now with Judgment proccing the slow, Burden of Guilt could be removed. It would be replaced with Hand of Sanctuary which would be something as follows:
    Hand of Sanctuary would either replace Hand of Salvation or Hand of Freedom (Freedom being more likely). It would be a hand you place on a friendly target making them immune to CC for x seconds (most likely 3 - no greater than 6). This would mean Holy could pick it up, but they would be dropping Repentance to do it, so their CC train would be significantly weakened by taking this. A choice for sure.

  • Would required skill and knowledge of when people are about to CC the person you use it on (this could also be a con for new people, but getting better at using abilities with experience is always a good feeling IMO)
  • Would make paladins, including ret, brought into more arena comps and RBGs by giving them a powerful utility
  • Cons:
  • Could be easily countered by people just holding off on their CCs for a few seconds
  • The paladin would be giving up more CC to reduce CC
  • Able to be spellstolen -_-
  • I feel these would greatly improve Rets desire to be brought into RBGs and Arena teams. These are of course ideas and I would like feedback on these. Tell me if it's a good idea or bad idea and why. Also please feel free to post any suggestions or improvements that could be made. Thanks!
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    100 Blood Elf Paladin
    its an interesting thought, but it seems like it would be nearly impossible to balance
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    100 Human Paladin
    That is an interesting idea but there are 2 other things going on that go against it..

    1) GC said "We think ret is in a good spot" We mening him and the devs (I guess)

    2) There is a split in the Paladin community. Some players say ret is fine, while there are others that think ret needs help.

    Both sides are too busy fighting among themselves to be of any use to others. ( also.. some of them are so one-sided that they refuse to think otherwise ) this happens on both sides.
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    100 Blood Elf Paladin
    I feel like Seal of Justice just needs to apply its weapon damage on Judgment. Right now, one of the biggest boons Seal of Truth has is refreshing Censure with Judgment, making it a constant pressure. If Seal of Justice also added 20% weapon damage as Holy onto Judgment (not applying the slow) then it might be a little more competitive in terms of when it got used.

    Or, frankly, Seal of Justice can just go away and become an ability instead. We have 3 other Seals already, 2 of which see fairly limited use to begin with. There's no need to have a slew of passive buffs you barely use. Either make each one do something meaningful and unique, or just don't have them---they're added clutter.

    Just to be clear though, I don't think Ret uptime is actually a huge issue right now. My biggest concerns are survival against armor penetrating attacks (virtually none), ineffective healing (cuts our utility's main use), and a big list of talents that basically never see use because they are practically and mathematically inferior.

    Also: I really think Burden of Guilt should have never existed. Blinding Light should have occupied that talent spot, and Justice should have just applied on Judgment. The level 87 ability should have been...something more exciting, useful, game changing, or otherwise not Intimidating Light.
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