Blood Elf & High Elf

90 Blood Elf Monk
12555
I've been seeing some comments saying that High Elves were chased out of their home by the Blood Elves. Does anyone know where that is from, with the conflict on whats going on in Dalaran it would be nice to be up to date on these. Thanks

From what I know about the lore on anyone getting kick out from Silvermoon are the Rangers in Quel'Lithien Lodge who were kicked out by Lor'themar because he wanted a united people in their land.

The only lore I know about Blood Elf & High Elf re-guarding their different label is that in WCIII FT Kael mention that all the high elves had renamed themselves Blood elves but from the what was mention by Tyrande it seems the High Elves that left Silvermoon or were else where and not fighting the Scourge are still High Elves. While those that stayed renamed themselves Blood Elves in honor of their fallen brethren.
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91 Undead Warlock
7410
02/20/2013 03:45 AMPosted by Suwukong
I've been seeing some comments saying that High Elves were chased out of their home by the Blood Elves. Does anyone know where that is from, with the conflict on whats going on in Dalaran it would be nice to be up to date on these. Thanks


It happened between Warcraft III: the Frozen Throne and the release of World of Warcraft.

The only lore I know about Blood Elf & High Elf re-guarding their different label is that in WCIII FT Kael mention that all the high elves had renamed themselves Blood elves but from the what was mention by Tyrande it seems the High Elves that left Silvermoon or were else where and not fighting the Scourge are still High Elves. While those that stayed renamed themselves Blood Elves in honor of their fallen brethren.


I will never understand why Blizzard decided to keep High elves around instead of, you know, killing them all or turning them into Blood elves.

Several high elves were in Kalimdor with Jaina, others in Dalaran with Kael'thas, others in Stormwind, all as Quel'Thalas fell. Those in Dalaran joined Kael'thas, while those in Kalimdor and Stormwind remained in the Alliance.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
12555
02/20/2013 03:48 AMPosted by Ximothy
It happened between Warcraft III: the Frozen Throne and the release of World of Warcraft.


I'm looking for the book or anything like that though.
Edited by Suwukong on 2/20/2013 4:27 AM PST
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90 Orc Warlock
11315
It's from 'In the Shadow of the Sun' the leader story for Lor'themar Theron-

"Since the Sunfury have returned to us," Lor'themar began, "and our position in the Ghostlands is more… secure… the Farstriders are finding themselves stretched a bit less. They - I - would send you regular supplies."

Lor'themar had become accustomed to the mockery of those he could not please, but he had not fully anticipated the pointed sting that Renthar's laugh elicited. Even Aurora's face, normally so controlled and serene, flushed deeply with undisguised contempt.

"Five years we rot here, thrown out of our homes at your behest because we refuse to suck magic from living things like vampires." Renthar began to rise from his seat, leaning across the table, truly shaking with rage. "And now you want to offer aid? After all we have been through, you come now? After what the Horde did to us in the name of that bastard human who called himself ranger? How blind do you think I am, Lor'themar? I should kill you. I should kill you and send Sylvanas your head!"


"How did they react to you?" Aethas asked. Lor'themar turned to stare at him.

"Five years ago I threw them out of the homes they had fought for every bit as fiercely as anyone in Quel'Thalas today," he answered. "How do you think they reacted?"

Aethas winced.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
12555
Wasn't most of those rangers though, so it was those that were threw out not the high elves as a whole. Also didn't they all turn into wretched, with only 1 survivor? Is there another thing about it, or is it just that?
Edited by Suwukong on 2/20/2013 5:03 AM PST
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76 Draenei Monk
3875
02/20/2013 05:02 AMPosted by Suwukong
Wasn't most of those rangers though, so it was those that were threw out not the high elves as a whole. Also didn't they all turn into wretched, with only 1 survivor? Is there another thing about it, or is it just that?


I don't think any turned into wretched. Or, if any did, it was an extreme few. I personally love the schism between High and blood elves. On one side you have the people that were strong enough to hold on to themselves through a brutal hell of addiction and loss, and on the other you have the pathetic ones that caved in and started in on a new flavor of magical !@#$. Every High Elf in the story is a walking, talking piece of proof of just how wrong Kael was and how low the blood elves have fallen.
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100 Human Paladin
17625
I will never understand why Blizzard decided to keep High elves around instead of, you know, killing them all or turning them into Blood elves.

Several high elves were in Kalimdor with Jaina, others in Dalaran with Kael'thas, others in Stormwind, all as Quel'Thalas fell. Those in Dalaran joined Kael'thas, while those in Kalimdor and Stormwind remained in the Alliance.


The high elves living in Theramore, Stormwind, Outland, etc. didn't go through the same things the blood elves did. They never joined Kael'thas's army. They never learned how to siphon fel magic from Illidan. They never had the bad experience with Garithos that drove them away from the Alliance. There was no reason for those high elves to become blood elves, much less join the Horde.

More importantly... high elves have always been (and will always be) an iconic facet of the Alliance. They were the most important Alliance race in WC2 and WC3 (besides the humans), and TFT's "Alliance" campaign was entirely focused on Kael'thas and the blood elves. Turning the blood elves into a Horde race was a weird move that hurt the Alliance's identity almost as much as allowing the Horde to occupy much of Lordaeron did - it meant that the Alliance began WoW with no story development since WC2 (beyond "losing lands, peoples and themes to neutral factions and/or the Horde"). Retaining Vereesa and (hopefully) Alleria as relevant Alliance characters helps to mitigate that somewhat.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5420
More importantly... high elves have always been (and will always be) an iconic facet of the Alliance. They were the most important Alliance race in WC2 and WC3 (besides the humans), and TFT's "Alliance" campaign was entirely focused on Kael'thas and the blood elves. Turning the blood elves into a Horde race was a weird move that hurt the Alliance's identity almost as much as allowing the Horde to occupy much of Lordaeron did - it meant that the Alliance began WoW with no story development since WC2 (beyond "losing lands, peoples and themes to neutral factions and/or the Horde").


Yeah. Blizzard was weird about that since it technically means the Horde won the Second war. Large parts of Lordaeron and all of Quel'thalas are now Horde territory. :|
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90 Orc Warlock
10490
02/20/2013 06:53 AMPosted by Kynrind
Yeah. Blizzard was weird about that since it technically means the Horde won the Second war. Large parts of Lordaeron and all of Quel'thalas are now Horde territory. :|


What it really means is that the Alliance lost the THIRD war, and the Forsaken won the squabbling over Lordaeron's corpse.

Arthas killed Lordaeron, then Sylvannus chased him off and vulture'd the corpse.

02/20/2013 06:38 AMPosted by Egrem
Turning the blood elves into a Horde race was a weird move that hurt the Alliance's identity almost as much as allowing the Horde to occupy much of Lordaeron did


Giving the horde BE's hurt the Alliance worse. They missed the chance to give the Alliance a morally questionable, harsh race. The Forsaken have an identity with Lordaeron, and a history, so there's far more of a justification for them existing on location. The Blood Elves really only have the bad experience between Garithos and Kaelthas, and you'd think a longer lived race could put that aside better
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
02/20/2013 07:23 AMPosted by Grimauna
They missed the chance to give the Alliance a morally questionable, harsh race.


Well, you know, those other elves...
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89 Blood Elf Death Knight
1640
The High Elves were originally part of the Alliance. They were an ancient, proud, powerful, extremely successful society, that immersed themselves completely in the power of the mystical fount of power called the Sunwell. They were at the time, and continue to be the most powerful wielders of the Arcane on the face of Azeroth, their history stretching back to the time that the original Highborne began using the magics of the well of eternity. This however was their downfall. Once he had destroyed Lordaeron, Arthas Menethil drove his new Scourge legions into southern Quel'thalas. Based in Deatholme, he corrupted the southern half of Quel'thalas into what is now known as the Ghostlands. Sylvanas Windrunner, ranger-general of the High Elves, fought as hard as she could. Arthas was too powerful. He blazed his way through all defenses, right up the center of Eversong. His path is now visible in-game as the Dead Scar, a wretched strip of plague-corrupted land splitting Quel'thalas in half. Eventually he reached the gates of Silvermoon itself. All the defenses of the High Elves were brought to bear, but they simply had not been prepared, and the Scourge was and would be the most powerful entity ever encountered by Azeroth. He breached the gates, and killed every High Elf in the city. King Anasterian, his family, and the Convocation were slaughtered. All that remained in Quel'thalas were shambling corspes, and Arthas continued on. He froze a piece of the north sea between Silvermoon and Quel'danas, the island of the Sunwell. What remained of the elves was located here, and he destroyed all petty resistance including the remnants of the Spellbrakers, who were based there. Once he reached the Sunwell he immersed the remains of the Necromancer Kel'thuzad in the magical waters, ressurecting the dark wizard and corrupting the symbol of the High Elven people, and the center of their life and power.

The humans who had been the Elves allies did not send help. Quite honestly they didn't really have anything to send, and it wouldn't have made a difference, but some still saw it as a betrayal. However the worst was yet to come. Kael'thas Sunstrider, Anasterian's wise and well-loved son, had been residing in Dalaran with almost ten percent of the High Elven population. Dalaran was originally built by the Elves to teach humans magic as part of a pact made with the humans during the original Troll Wars of Lordaeron and Quel'thalas. Leadership of the city had since been taken over by the Kirin Tor, a council upon which sat several representatives of both races. After it was inhabited by the Scourge during the second war, the Alliance forces in Lordaeron retook the city under Grand Marshal Garithos, the Alliance commander at that point, who was horribly racist against all non-humans, but High Elves especially. He sent Kael's forces to do menial tasks, particularly they were supposed to repair observatories across lake Lordamere. The docks had been destroyed, and the Prince, on order to follow his orders, accepted the offered help of a naga witch, Lady Vashj to get across the lake. He completed his task and returned to Graithos. He condemned Kael for consorting with naga, tellign him he wouldn't tolerate 'treason' (Though these particular naga were no threat to the Alliance at that point). Garithos then sent the Prince to take out advancing Scourge forces, but recalled all the humans back to other posts. Left with only his fellow Elves, he realized they would no doubt fall. he simply didn't have enough soldiers with him. He cautiously accepted again the offer of help from Lady Vashj. Together they defeated the enemy Scourge. They began to speak, and the Prince mentioned the 'emptiness' that his people were experiencing. The naga revealed to him that his people, like hers, were addicted to magic and without the Sunwell would go into a horrifying withdrawal (By Blood Elven lore accounts it has been described as a horrifying, all consuming, extremely painful, indefinite, worst-the-world-has-ever-seen, fatal withdrawal, for multiple reasons.). Garithos and his men apporach and see Lady Vashj. Garithos smugly told Kael that he now had all the proof he needed to deal with him and the other elves as he felt they deserved, and he had them all imprisoned in the Dungeons of Dalaran. Lady Vashj crept through the sewers of Dalaran to release them, fleeing through a portal to Outland.

There the Naga and the Elves free Vashj's master, Illidan, who explains to Kael'thas that there is no cure for his condition, but offers to provide his people with all the magic they need. He pledges himself to Illidan (Who was really a good guy at this point. You have to remember that although his methods were sometimes questionable, he always did the right thing and was almost always foiled by someone who didn't understand. Usually Malfurion and Tyrande. Ironically if they had stayed out of his business, Illidan may have destroyed Northrend and the Lich King shorty after the fall of Quel'thalas, saving countless lives.) and send Magister rommath back to explain the situation and offer hope.

At this point the Elves had reinhabited Quel'thalas, and rebuilt the western half of Silvermoon. They renamed themselves Blood Elves in honor of their fallen brethren. Rommath comes back, telling his people that Kael'thas has found them a new source of power. They can siphon magic from living beings, generally represented as the iconic mana worms. Almost everyone agrees to this. There are however a few, most of whom were not at the fall of Quel'thalas or the betrayal by Dalaran, who refuse to do this. They think it is horrifying, and speak out against it. The elves at this point are experiencing the beginning of their withdrawal, and want to do whatever it takes. This causes extreme turmoil in what remains of the society, and Regent Lord Lor'themar Theron banishes those who won't do it, not because of their beliefs, but because he can't afford to lead a divided, even more weakened nation at this point. They retclaim their old name and leave Quel'thalas. It's been speculated that had he not done so a civil war would have erupted. This is really the division between the Blood Elves and the High Elves. For the most part, the High Elves didn't go through what the Blood Elves did. They were elsewhere, and so they don't hold a grudge against the Alliance for their betrayal.

After that a few things happen. Kael'thas betrays Illidan after being corrupted by the Legion. He eventually tries to reignite the Sunwell and bring Kil'jaeden through it, but we stop him and the sunwell it purified by the sacrifice of a dying narru.

In hindsight everything turned out for the best, besides Kael'thas that is. The differences between the High Elves and the Blood Elves would have destroyed what remained of the society, especially if both were experiencing the withdrawal. If they all took the side of the High Elves they would have never been powerful enough to continue as they did. Now all that keeps them apart is old grudges. Dalaran has never been the same, it's now lorded over by humans and High Elves, both of which hate Blood Elves, so although they claim to be neutral they really aren't. It was one big mess, resolved for the most part.

I just wished they wouldn't have !@#$ed up Kael'thas, or Illidan for that matter. They were such great characters that people still love them, even after everything. There was no reason to do what they did.
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90 Worgen Warlock
16740
02/20/2013 05:02 AMPosted by Suwukong
Wasn't most of those rangers though, so it was those that were threw out not the high elves as a whole. Also didn't they all turn into wretched, with only 1 survivor? Is there another thing about it, or is it just that?


About 10% of the remaining Elf population on Silvermoon were exiled because they were against Kael methods. The ones on that lodge were merely a few who stood close to their homes. Others travelled to other places, such as Dalaran.

02/20/2013 07:23 AMPosted by Grimauna
The Blood Elves really only have the bad experience between Garithos and Kaelthas, and you'd think a longer lived race could put that aside better


It's also nice to comment on how convenient the "Alliance hostility" in their starting zone was convenient, even though they were neutral at the time.

Garithos alone would never have been enough, specially considering the situation. Garithos happened to be the highest ranking leader there, so he ended up as the leader. While there were no way for the actual Alliance, Stormwind/Ironforge, to know what was happening on these zones. They just knew there were some resistance and sent reinforcements. It's like blaming the entire Horde for what Doomhammer or Gul'dan did.
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90 Orc Warlock
10490
02/20/2013 08:49 AMPosted by Osiria
It's like blaming the entire Horde for what Doomhammer or Gul'dan did.


Which happens all the times on both sides in and out of game. And the proud tradition continues to this day.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
14660
02/20/2013 08:49 AMPosted by Osiria
The Blood Elves really only have the bad experience between Garithos and Kaelthas, and you'd think a longer lived race could put that aside better


They haven't exactly forgiven the Night Elves for casting them out after the whole Well of Eternity fiasco. Given that happened 10,000 years ago, I wouldn't put it past the Blood Elves to still hold a grudge.
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90 Worgen Warlock
16740
Which happens all the times on both sides in and out of game. And the proud tradition continues to this day.


True. But the Horde did some terrible stuff against them as well.

Or they move against the one who hit them more recently.

02/20/2013 04:22 PMPosted by Raynell
They haven't exactly forgiven the Night Elves for casting them out after the whole Well of Eternity fiasco. Given that happened 10,000 years ago, I wouldn't put it past the Blood Elves to still hold a grudge.


They didn't seem to have any problem with them when they tried to help the survivors. Not even a single word. And neither the Night Elves had any problem with any of them.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
10435
02/20/2013 08:49 AMPosted by Osiria
About 10% of the remaining Elf population on Silvermoon were exiled because they were against Kael methods. The ones on that lodge were merely a few who stood close to their homes. Others travelled to other places, such as Dalaran.


may basic understnding of the situation is that you had 90% of all elves killed, roughly 1% of the total elf population at that point was living outside of silvermoon, this includes people in outland, and the non national lodges, in addition to stormwind, theramore, and X.

then a small minority of elves from silvermoon refused to become blood elves, the most promanent of them became wreched.

the % never changed over this time period. there should still be 9 blood elves for every 1 high elf. given some of those blood elves are kaels elves.
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100 Tauren Shaman
14180
02/20/2013 06:21 AMPosted by Medere
Wasn't most of those rangers though, so it was those that were threw out not the high elves as a whole. Also didn't they all turn into wretched, with only 1 survivor? Is there another thing about it, or is it just that?


I don't think any turned into wretched. Or, if any did, it was an extreme few. I personally love the schism between High and blood elves. On one side you have the people that were strong enough to hold on to themselves through a brutal hell of addiction and loss, and on the other you have the pathetic ones that caved in and started in on a new flavor of magical !@#$. Every High Elf in the story is a walking, talking piece of proof of just how wrong Kael was and how low the blood elves have fallen.


I tend to look at it as Idealism verse Pragmatism. That seems to be the general gist of dynamic with the HEs and the BEs. Infact thats sort of supposed to be the overall difference between the Alliance and the Horde races if the discription Blizz gives new Pandas is anything to go by.

As for the HEs getting kicked out, all we have to go on is a few lines out of Shadow of the Sun. Unfortunately it doesnt give us much details.

BEs generally look for what is best for them now. For the BEs in BC that meant allying with the Horde. Certianly all the interaction between alliance and BEs in the early BE areas only re enforces the vibe that the alliance cant be trusted. Horde questing in general portrays the alliance as arogent, condecending and hypocritical while Alliance questing portrays Horde as brutal, cruel, mindlessly violent and generally evil.

In Cata and MoP they only have increased the horde's negative points to set up Garrosh as a raid boss.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
12555
02/20/2013 06:21 AMPosted by Medere
Wasn't most of those rangers though, so it was those that were threw out not the high elves as a whole. Also didn't they all turn into wretched, with only 1 survivor? Is there another thing about it, or is it just that?


I don't think any turned into wretched. Or, if any did, it was an extreme few. I personally love the schism between High and blood elves. On one side you have the people that were strong enough to hold on to themselves through a brutal hell of addiction and loss, and on the other you have the pathetic ones that caved in and started in on a new flavor of magical !@#$. Every High Elf in the story is a walking, talking piece of proof of just how wrong Kael was and how low the blood elves have fallen.


Yeah, they all turned into wretched as of cata with only 1 survivor but they were already getting kill by any1 that undead ranger can send so their numbers might had been pretty low by then too.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
12555
02/20/2013 08:32 AMPosted by Maihray
The humans who had been the Elves allies did not send help. Quite honestly they didn't really have anything to send, and it wouldn't have made a difference, but some still saw it as a betrayal


too long of a post so i didnt read most of it, but the reason they hate the human wasn't because they didn't send out help. They know very well of the situation after the city fell, the reason was because the Alliance leader of the Lorderon force sent them to on a suicide mission after they retook dalaran from the scourge for the Alliance.

02/20/2013 07:51 PMPosted by Osiria
Which happens all the times on both sides in and out of game. And the proud tradition continues to this day.


True. But the Horde did some terrible stuff against them as well.

Or they move against the one who hit them more recently.

02/20/2013 04:22 PMPosted by Raynell
They haven't exactly forgiven the Night Elves for casting them out after the whole Well of Eternity fiasco. Given that happened 10,000 years ago, I wouldn't put it past the Blood Elves to still hold a grudge.


They didn't seem to have any problem with them when they tried to help the survivors. Not even a single word. And neither the Night Elves had any problem with any of them.


The reason for joining the horde was a very lousy job by blizzard, and if they didn't want to just stay out of the red & blue they shouldve joined the alliance.

Yeah, from what was shown when Kael met with Tyrande & the others, there was no hostility between the two races.
Edited by Suwukong on 2/21/2013 2:00 AM PST
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
02/21/2013 01:55 AMPosted by Suwukong
too long of a post so i didnt read most of it, but the reason they hate the human wasn't because they didn't send out help. They know very well of the situation after the city fell, the reason was because the Alliance leader of the Lorderon force sent them to on a suicide mission after they retook dalaran from the scourge for the Alliance.


They didn't retake Dalaran from the Scourge, Garithos did, and it wasn't the suicide mission that made them turn against the Alliance completely, it was Garithos' intent to execute them for disobeying his orders.
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