Wow Insider Article

90 Blood Elf Monk
14615
Not to be nasty, but I feel this needs to be said (quoted from a WoW Insider article):

"Ideally, you should only create a guild because it needs to exist. If that sounds too zen for you, I'll break it down. You should create a guild when (a) you know players who want to form a new community, (b) you see a need that is not being fulfilled by other guilds on your realm, or (c) you can offer a significant improvement over what existing guilds are doing."

Full Article here (major points at the bottom section under 'A Better Idea'): http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/02/25/officers-quarters-dont-start-from-scratch/

Too often I see people on this realm that create a new guild just to have that 'Yay I'm the leader' mentality. While this is all well and good, you start to have the situation that Kargath has come to see. Lots of [raiding] guilds on this server have 5-6 players and instead of looking at it and saying "forget it, lets join ranks with another group of 5-6" they instead make intense recruiting efforts to keep that group or continuously pug. While that's fine and dandy, I see a lot of potentially great players sitting in a mess of a guild or trying to lead a bunch of mediocre players through content.

From the post earlier in the year No Quarter had the right idea of trying to merge with another group to make a guild capable of progression as opposed to an illusion of such. (I'm sorry, but if you can't clear normal MV as a guild by now you should probably look elsewhere.)

Many guilds on Kargath have good communities and are lead by good players but cannot fill ranks due to a larger number of the 'filler guilds'.

Now, I say this as a matter of my own opinion and what others do with this opinion is their own perogative. Should every guild break apart and fill in with the better guilds? No, the smaller and less progressed guilds are there for a reason for where else would we all have gotten our feet wet with raiding to decide if it was our thing or not? But I do feel an overabundance of those guilds is hurtful to our community as a server and to the individuals who are capable of so much more.
Edited by Allayva on 2/25/2013 9:56 AM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
15455
Allaiva is turning into me now... this is scary.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
14665
Part of the problem is that our Horde population isn't large enough to support the 11 guilds that have killed bosses in at least 2/3 of the current raids. Unfortunately, people feel like they need to drag out !@#$ty raids that don't really accomplish anything instead of biting the bullet and joining a guild that is established and needs raiders (*cough*)

There is ton's of talent in that Rank4-Rank11 bracket of Horde raiding, they are just held back by loyalties. Many of those players could easily clear 16/16 normal on a one day raid schedule, given the proper leadership, structure and organization.
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100 Human Paladin
15765
It's almost as if many people don't care about progression all that much
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92 Draenei Shaman
15330
http://imageshack.us/a/img16/2503/0004712001361816297.gif
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100 Tauren Druid
5600
02/25/2013 12:46 PMPosted by Mikerk
It's almost as if many people don't care about progression all that much


While this might be true, I have a hard time believing that; if this were true, why have a guild AND try to raid normal (heroic) content? It'd be just as easy to have a guild and just do LFR's every week. Sure, most people will say they just want to raid with their friends, but I think if they were honest, they'd say that progression was at least something they think about ("progression" doesn't necessarily have to mean that you're going for world rankings or anything, simply finishing normal mode content, perhaps).

I think there is something to be said about playing with like-minded people; people who have the same goals and expectations as you might have; even if you aren't all about "progression" but you want to see normal modes, what is the harm of joining up with another guild that has those same goals?

I think the elephant in the room (besides Hoochy, of course) is the fact that most people have a bigger ego than they'd care to admit. The prevalent attitude is often negative and very self-centered. Couple that with the common misconception that progression guilds are full of d-bags and a-holes, for the general populace the choice becomes easy: deal with the PUG situation, not deal with A-holes/d-bags, and be in charge.

Raiding also isn't the only end-game any more; arenas, rated battlegrounds, pet battles, challenge modes, and even rep grinds out there to compete with raiding now and people only have so much time to spend during their days playing this game, and there is a pretty significant initial time investment involved to get into raiding in any sort of reasonably serious way (meaning you're going to actually try to be as prepared as possible for a raid, not just expect your guildmates to carry you).

TL, DR: Hoochy is a fatty.
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90 Tauren Druid
15455

TL, DR: Hoochy is a fatty.


And damn proud of it!
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90 Blood Elf Monk
14615
02/25/2013 12:46 PMPosted by Mikerk
It's almost as if many people don't care about progression all that much


Maybe, but I know of at least 2-3 lesser progressed guilds on the server, horde side specifically, that would be better combining with each other. Will their progression improve? probably not much. But they all seem to have the same mind set which would give them better opportunities for enjoying the game together and give them less reason to consistently pug 2ish spots to get any sort of raiding done.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
14665
02/25/2013 12:46 PMPosted by Mikerk
It's almost as if many people don't care about progression all that much


Progression = 16/16 Normal?

lol?
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90 Orc Monk
8975
Well it's taken some time, but i am happy to see there are a least 3 other horde guilds with multiple heroic kills under their belt.

The real question is what are these other guild who haven't cleared normal really interested in. You raid to progress so saying they don't want to progress when they have a raid schedule seems redic. Is the Ego thing really holding these smaller guilds back from merging? I hate to point fingers but after twisted the horde side just drops to the bottom of the progression list. Yet there are recruitment posts for guilds that have only killed 3 bosses in MV

You would need opinions of the horde guilds listed 25 and under on wowprogress for Kargath to answer that and i don't believe any of them can be honest enough to answer w/o some mouth breather in their guild posting a hate comment about FU
Edited by Venginse on 2/26/2013 12:03 PM PST
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100 Human Paladin
15765
02/26/2013 11:59 AMPosted by Venginse
You raid to progress


Blanket statement

Maybe someone should poach their better players and force the others to join other guilds to raid, or just transfer off the server. That seemed to work really well in the past
Edited by Mikerk on 2/26/2013 1:07 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Priest
10120
People join guilds for different reasons. Some people just want a place to be with their friends or family, without a care about what they accomplish. Other people care much more about raid content, pvp, or whatever they enjoy doing in the game.

Meh, if someone isn't happy in their current guild, and they can't find a suitable alternative, I don't see why they can't make their own. Even if all they do is say "yay I'm the leader," and then do dailies or farm, didn't that guild need to exist to at least one person?

/zen
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100 Undead Priest
14485
02/26/2013 01:03 PMPosted by Mikerk
You raid to progress


Blanket statement

Maybe someone should poach their better players and force the others to join other guilds to raid, or just transfer off the server. That seemed to work really well in the past


It's okay all Eternal got was Pamandra, and we all know how that turned out.
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90 Worgen Hunter
11980
Remember kids, the key to success is perseverance.
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
14060
02/27/2013 11:02 AMPosted by Billybones
Remember kids, the key to success is perseverance.


Comeon Vair,

Don't forget fountains upon fountains of alcohol, copious amounts of drugs, and shoulder "parrots". Key parts to a raid team's success, along with perseverance.

Really softens those wipes.
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100 Tauren Druid
5600
Remember kids, the key to success is perseverance.


Comeon Vair,

Don't forget fountains upon fountains of alcohol, copious amounts of drugs, and shoulder "parrots". Key parts to a raid team's success, along with perseverance.

Really softens those wipes.


Don't forget those warm, sultry Hotlanta evenings, Bones. The kind of nights that highlight why your pit-stained t-shirts are always somehow yellow; the kind of nights where a dame with all the right curves in all the right places will walk into your office and change your life forever; the kind of night where you can feel the sweat first trickling then dripping down your crack, the liquid trail tickling; the kind of night where the next car backfiring could just as easily be a gunshot, the bullet with your name on it; the kind of night where fear lurks around every corner and the sickly sweet stench of dried urine assaults your nostrils at every turn; the kind of nights when horns and sirens are just as prevalent as the hookers on every street corner; the kind of night your fedora sticks to your head like !@#$% to a crusty sock; the kind of night when everything could go wrong, but it feels so very right.
Edited by Sequoyah on 3/2/2013 12:16 PM PST
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85 Draenei Shaman
11455
Hi Lauriel!!!

I created a guild over 8 years ago (holy crap... it's really been that long?) because:

1) I knew people who wanted to be in a guild with me (my previous one had recently dissolved); and

2) I had a vision for a type of guild that would become a WoW community. No guild like the type I wanted to create existed, so I created it.

So, on the one hand, I agree completely that not everyone cares about raid progression (especially when there's so much other stuff to do in WoW these days), and plenty of people are quite content to chill in their progression-less guilds. I also think Allayva has a point that many people are running guilds because they're attached to being in a leadership position. That seems nuts to me. The only way to lead a guild is semi-reluctantly, out of the realization that you're the best person for the job (at least, out of those willing to do it). I do get why some people get attached to guild leadership - maybe they don't have a lot of power in their day jobs or real lives and this little bit of video game influence is empowering. But while I'm not going to judge those who hold onto leadership positions, the sad fact is that it often holds them and their friends back. There's no reason that two like-minded guilds with similar guild philosophies and progression levels - each of which is struggling with numbers - shouldn't merge. Guild mergers are rare, but damn, they really shouldn't be.
Edited by Eldaryx on 3/9/2013 6:48 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Priest
10120
Hey Eldaryx!

Nobody ever really leaves, I guess. Why are you still only 85!?
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100 Tauren Druid
5600
Why are you still only 85!?


That's easy! He hasn't logged in for over a year!

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7874397362?page=6#104
Edited by Sequoyah on 3/10/2013 5:19 PM PDT
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