Overhealing Overlooked

100 Tauren Druid
10265
I've been reading some OOM threads, and noticed that nobody really talks about Overhealing much, especially when the lower level healers are spamming high cost, high output, instant spells, when asked about their rotation.


Stopped reading.

1; Low levels = meaningless. Regardless of skill or gear. Completely and utterly meaningless.
Thus spamming anything is moot and doesn't matter.

2; Rotation? No such thing as a healer. There's a series of priorities depending on encounter. Nothing more. Rotations do not exsist.

Furthermore, Overhealing doesn't matter unless you do not down content and spent too much time oom.
Edited by Tonydanza on 2/23/2013 9:58 PM PST
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100 Gnome Priest
12435
1. Lower levels. Not low. Example would be 86. Not 44. I've never seen an OOM thread by a level 44.

2..................we can call them what YOU want to call them.

Furthermore, What the !@#$ do you think I'm talking about?

Maybe you should have read more.
Edited by Gnomocaine on 2/23/2013 10:20 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
11915
02/23/2013 10:04 PMPosted by Gnomocaine
Lower levels. Not low. Example would be 86.

86 is not low level. There's no definitive line, but if your level is only achievable with the most recent xpac than you are not low.

With how classes are balanced below level 90 I'd consider levels 1-79 to be low level.
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100 Tauren Druid
10265


Really?

Im not talking about what my expectations are. I am simply trying to find better ways to explain MoP healing to newer healers, with the introduction of fixed mana pools, and having to rely on more than just INT. I don't think newer healers care where their mana ends up at the end of the fight, so long as everyone lives to move onto the next boss, and they're not stressed out during the fight.


So you want mana to matter at "lower" levels. I agree with that idea. However the discussion of overheals is a bad one, if your goal is centered around teaching newer healers anything.
Overheals should be the least of their concern.
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90 Pandaren Monk
5585
Lower levels = below 70/80.

Either way, OH isn't an issue - just as long as you've got the mana regen to back it up ;-)
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100 Gnome Priest
12435
Correct. OH is not an issue when you have the Mana to back it up. This thread specifically talks about not having the mana to back it up. I've said it about 200 times.
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100 Gnome Priest
12435
02/24/2013 02:19 AMPosted by Mitimem
Lower levels. Not low. Example would be 86.

86 is not low level. There's no definitive line, but if your level is only achievable with the most recent xpac than you are not low.

With how classes are balanced below level 90 I'd consider levels 1-79 to be low level.


86 is lower than 90. It's also the first level outside of Cata that I remember people saying "hey, why the hell am I going OOM so fast???"

If you're lower than 86, or dont have mana issues, none of this applies to your healing mechanics.

As redundant as I may sound, Again, we're not talking about people who can make it rain green numbers effortlessly through fights. We're only talking about the newer healers who are having mana issues. We're not talking about healing while leveling. We're specifically talking about the point in the game, where spamming Flash, or CoH no longer works.



So you want mana to matter at "lower" levels. I agree with that idea. However the discussion of overheals is a bad one, if your goal is centered around teaching newer healers anything.
Overheals should be the least of their concern.


I think Mana should matter at all levels of the game.
I dont think I said I wanted to center my teachings around OH, but its something that needs to be talked about when the problem is evident. I've noticed a trend with OOM healers, and have found the answers are right there in the OH stat.

OH is not an issue if you have mana to blow. This thread isnt about having mana to blow. It's about the opposite.

Lower levels = below 70/80.

Either way, OH isn't an issue - just as long as you've got the mana regen to back it up ;-)


We're talking about healers who dont have the mana regen. OH then becomes an issue.
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100 Orc Shaman
HC
19345
Furthermore, Overhealing doesn't matter unless you do not down content and spent too much time oom.


Not sure you're completely right. If someone is overhealing a lot they can be putting a lot more pressure on their co-healer(s) because they're running oom faster/having an extremely slow reaction time and this is only the beginning of what it can show. This can count for every healing class as well, measuring overhealing can play a very huge role and shouldn't be brushed off even if the content is "downed."
Edited by Sensations on 2/24/2013 9:36 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
11915
02/24/2013 09:26 AMPosted by Sensations
If someone is overhealing a lot they can be putting a lot more pressure on their co-healer(s) because they're running oom faster/having an extremely slow reaction time and this is only the beginning of what it can show.

What co-healers? This discussion is specifically about healers in dungeons below level 90.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
13945
Overhealing is irrelevant. If you have a mana problem, you have a spell selection problem. More often than not, the solution involves switching to spells that cause you to overheal more, not less.

For instance, a priest having mana issues should use more PoH and less Flash Heal. Now, it's very easy to run incredibly low overhealing with Flash Heal (in fact, it's not hard to hit zero OH; it's a simple single-target fast heal). PoH is going to run at least 20-30% even when used perfectly unless you're undergearing the Hell out of certain raid encounters. But PoH is still more efficient.

Shamans should generally try to move away from GHW/HS and toward Healing Rain/HST. But HR is an overhealing beast, and HST in a 5m isn't exactly precision-targeted healing. Overhealing will go up; mana consumption will go down.

The only spec that doesn't really work this way is paladins. But even paladin OH might go up with better play if they weren't keeping Holy Shock on CD properly and casting off-Beacon Holy Lights.
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100 Orc Shaman
HC
19345
Overhealing is irrelevant


You couldn't be more wrong unless you're referring to strictly low levels. I'll make an argument if you're talking about level cap but don't want to make one and you're referring to low levels :p.

If someone is overhealing a lot they can be putting a lot more pressure on their co-healer(s) because they're running oom faster/having an extremely slow reaction time and this is only the beginning of what it can show.

What co-healers? This discussion is specifically about healers in dungeons below level 90.


It's about overhealing, I didn't see it specifically say "Only for low levels." All I saw was "especially when" which isn't a end-all statement.
Edited by Sensations on 2/24/2013 2:48 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
02/24/2013 02:47 PMPosted by Sensations
You couldn't be more wrong unless you're referring to strictly low levels. I'll make an argument if you're talking about level cap but don't want to make one and you're referring to low levels :p.


Overhealing is suuuuuper irrelevant at endgame.
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100 Orc Shaman
HC
19345
You couldn't be more wrong unless you're referring to strictly low levels. I'll make an argument if you're talking about level cap but don't want to make one and you're referring to low levels :p.


Overhealing is suuuuuper irrelevant at endgame.


I am curious how much you know about overhealing before you make that statement. What does overhealing show and why does that make it irrelevant?
Edited by Sensations on 2/24/2013 3:10 PM PST
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90 Troll Priest
12105
1. READ THE THREAD. This is a discussion about leveling healers (seen 86-90 tossed around). That means 5 mans, not raids or "end game". Why are people trying to apply raid healer mentality to a 87 healer, unless it is Sha advice?

2. I am not sure over-healing is that large of an issue in the 86-90. It is more a matter of mana management in greens/blues that have small spirit pools. 5 man healers don't wipe because they over-heal, they wipe because they panic when they see damage, are casting the mana inefficient heal, and OOM in the back end of a boss fight. It is not too much healing, it is more the wrong heals, and no mana in the home stretch.
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100 Orc Shaman
HC
19345
1. READ THE THREAD. This is a discussion about leveling healers (seen 86-90 tossed around). That means 5 mans, not raids or "end game". Why are people trying to apply raid healer mentality to a 87 healer, unless it is Sha advice?


Why do you say that? Last I checked it's about overhealing in general with some emphasis on leveling up but not based upon. The OP is what defines this thread.
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100 Human Paladin
aus
20635
02/23/2013 01:05 PMPosted by Imgandiloljk
because you expect them to stay at 90% mana with 7k spirit... makes sense.


lol 7k spirit, my new priest has 2.5k spirit @ 90:(

But overhealing is not really the issue. People taking damage and ignoring healer mana is the problem. Because a lot of the time they can
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
I'll make an argument if you're talking about level cap but don't want to make one and you're referring to low levels :p.


Overhealing is suuuuuper irrelevant at endgame.


I am curious how much you know about overhealing before you make that statement. What does overhealing show and why does that make it irrelevant?


An argument made of rhetorical questions designed to get me to make your case for you is a poor argument indeed.
Edited by Mahourai on 2/24/2013 4:04 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Priest
13945
02/24/2013 02:47 PMPosted by Sensations
You couldn't be more wrong unless you're referring to strictly low levels. I'll make an argument if you're talking about level cap but don't want to make one and you're referring to low levels :p.

Yeah, I'm referring to low levels and the low end of the skill curve at max level.

Even at max level, there's not much point looking at overhealing until you've got the spell selection right. And at that point, it's not usually a matter of "I'm running out of mana" as "how can I redistribute my mana/time in order to be more effective?" Which is a rather individual, fight-specific question that requires a detailed by-spell breakdown of overhealing.

(I came to the realization at one point in Cata that my use of Flash Heal was actually significantly more efficient than my use of Heal. That's much less likely to happen now that they widened the efficiency gap between those two spells, but one might have a similar discovery about e.g. GHeal and FHeal.)

I suppose I should refine my statement to "Total overhealing is irrelevant."
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100 Gnome Priest
12435
This thread is not about leveling healers. Its about getting ready for endgame dungeons, heroics, and raids. OH is not irrelevant when the person OH'ing is constantly running OOM

A a shadow priest OH IS irrelevant. A holy behind the healing curve running OOM and OH IS a serious problem.

Is it that hard to understand?
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100 Blood Elf Priest
13945
This thread is not about leveling healers. Its about getting ready for endgame dungeons, heroics, and raids. OH is not irrelevant when the person OH'ing is constantly running OOM

A a shadow priest OH IS irrelevant. A holy behind the healing curve running OOM and OH IS a serious problem.

Overhealing is irrelevant unless you are already doing everything else right. Period.

You will not solve a mana problem by trying to reduce your overhealing if you are using the wrong spells at the wrong times.

Fix spell selection first. This may actually result in an increase in overhealing, but a reduction in mana consumption. Once you have fixed spell selection, you will likely not have a mana problem until you hit heroic raids. At that point, if you find you don't have the mana available at the right times to cast the spells you need, you might consider looking at your overhealing breakdown by spell to help you reduce your ineffective and low-priority mana use so you have mana available for high-priority emergencies and/or contributing DPS.
Edited by Kaels on 2/24/2013 4:54 PM PST
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