Initial BiS lists for DPS DKs

100 Human Death Knight
19640
These are subject to change.

Full BiS:

DW Frost: http://ptr.wowhead.com/profile=35194550

2h Frost and Unholy: http://ptr.wowhead.com/profile=35195237

11/13 HM without Heroic Lei Shen or Ra-den loot:

DW Frost: http://ptr.wowhead.com/profile=35200958

2h Frost and Unholy: http://ptr.wowhead.com/profile=35200927

Please be aware that Wowhead is having issues displaying the profiles. You may need to reload them several times before they display.

On the MMO-Champion thread, someone wrote: "For anybody having problems viewing this in Firefox with noscript, be sure to allow cloudfront.net, wowhead.com, zam.com, and zamimg.com"


Important notes:

-These lists mostly contain 535 Heroic pieces since most Heroic Thunderforged pieces don’t have separate ID tags yet. The only 541 pieces on some of the profiles are the chest, cloak and ring off Ra-den.

-Remember that 541 Heroic Thunderforged items will probably trump their 535 counterpart; Throne of Thunder has a massive loot table and most items have sidegrades.

-Tier pieces will not have a 541 version.

-Bracers will likely have to be farmed repeatedly in the hopes of a “perfect” stat combo. Haste/Crit for Unholy and 2h Frost, Haste/Mastery for DW.

-Metagem is only a placeholder; we’ll use the legendary when we’re able to get it.

-Gemming for the 2h Frost and Unholy profile is more tailored towards Unholy and assumes Haste > Crit for Unholy (which, with the actual legendary metagem, it probably does).
Edited by Magdalena on 3/1/2013 10:56 PM PST
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100 Human Death Knight
13000
Thanks for this Magdalena. How close did the other trinkets come in?

Edit:
Re:Trinkets. Also does this take into account festerblight rotation? If festerblight wins Fabled Feather would be BiS would it not? So real question is, what will win in 5.2? normal Unholy or Festerblight.
Edited by Hemalador on 2/25/2013 11:21 PM PST
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100 Human Death Knight
19640
02/25/2013 10:53 PMPosted by Hemalador
Also does this take into account festerblight rotation?


Applying and trying to roll strong diseases with the standard Unholy rotation is one thin, but no fight in Throne of Thunder can realistically support a full Festerblight rotation. It's possible to abuse it for short amounts of time, but realistically there'll be enough target switching and movement that utilising the "standard" rotation ends up becoming a gain eventually.

The RPPM system means that most of the ToT trinkets will be much harder (if not impossible) to sync up after the initial pull/procs.

02/25/2013 10:53 PMPosted by Hemalador
If festerblight wins Fabled Feather would be BiS would it not?


Ultimately Primordius's Talisman ends up with a higher uptime (thus, more strength across the board) and also doesn't have a passive stat that is useless past the cap. Feather isn't a bad trinket, Primordius's just ends up pulling ahead when taking deadtime into consideration.
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90 Orc Death Knight
11375
Gemming for straight strength esp for DW? Please... smh
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55 Goblin Death Knight
4705
02/26/2013 01:59 PMPosted by Jagatron
Gemming for straight strength esp for DW? Please... smh


Gemming for strength is better at BiS/High levels of gear.

edit: And DW Frost gems strength at all gear levels...
Edited by Jäckßäuer on 2/26/2013 2:51 PM PST
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100 Human Death Knight
19640
02/26/2013 01:59 PMPosted by Jagatron
Gemming for straight strength esp for DW?


Lets use simple math:

Strength's value for DW per point: 3.68
Mastery (next highest stat after Hit/Exp) value for DW per point: 1.78

Even if we account for secondary stats having double the budget of primary stats (160 strength vs. 320 Mastery per gem), Strength still wins out. It also wins out without a doubt for Unholy as well, thanks to Unholy Might.
Haste could potentially outpace Strength for 2h Frost, but is often deprecated during period of high Haste such as trinket procs, Heroism/Lust, etc (not to mention bad play).

Until and unless you have any sort of solid evidence to challenge these values (and no, anecdotes about how it worked so well for you don't count), you don't know what you're talking about.
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90 Human Death Knight
14430
Wouldn't the Yellow Dawn Lightningcloak off Ra'den be better for 2h frost and unholy?
Edited by Wheelz on 2/26/2013 9:46 PM PST
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100 Human Death Knight
19640
02/26/2013 09:40 PMPosted by Wheelz
Wouldn't the Yellow Dawn Lightningcloak off Ra'den be better for 2h frost and unholy?


Looks like the 541 gear filter has updated- none of the cloaks were present when I did my initial sweep.
I've updated the profile to include the cloak, thanks for the find.

Currently doing some investigating into whether Amulet of the Primal Turtle might be better for 2h Frost/Unholy as well.
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90 Human Death Knight
14430
Possibly if we can manage to get away from more hit.
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90 Orc Death Knight
11375
Howling blast doesn't benefit from strength, only Oblit and FS does. You're better going off with 2H if you're going to go gemming for strength.

I've gemmed for strength and I've watched my dps drop about 20k. I'm no math genius, but when I see that number next to DPS under melee go up with haste and down with strength, I'm pretty sure that says something right there.
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100 Human Death Knight
19640
02/27/2013 07:37 AMPosted by Jagatron
Howling blast doesn't benefit from strength, only Oblit and FS does.


...Are you trolling, or do you not understand class basics?

Here is the Howling Blast tooltip from Live: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=49184

The spell scales with our Attack Power. Guess which primary stat confers Attack Power?

02/27/2013 07:37 AMPosted by Jagatron
I'm no math genius


That much is clear.

02/27/2013 07:37 AMPosted by Jagatron
but when I see that number next to DPS under melee go up with haste and down with strength


Are you referring to the number that refers to our White Hits? A small part of our overall damage? Something that has zero relevance when it comes to special attacks such as Howling Blast, Obliterate and Frost Strike?
Edited by Magdalena on 2/27/2013 9:21 AM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
14430
Howling blast doesn't benefit from strength, only Oblit and FS does. You're better going off with 2H if you're going to go gemming for strength.

I've gemmed for strength and I've watched my dps drop about 20k. I'm no math genius, but when I see that number next to DPS under melee go up with haste and down with strength, I'm pretty sure that says something right there.


You are in 489 gear level.... once in high levels of gear you can stop gemming haste so much as it comes from the gear naturally. Why you would try to dispute this is beyond me.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
15340
HB is only buffed by two things. Your strength and your mastery. Weapon damage has nothing to do with HB's damage. FS, Obliterate and our other melee abilities are buffed by strength and weapon damage. In the case of Frost DK Frost strike is also buffed by mastery on top of strength and weapon damage. But HB, Blood Boil, Icy Touch, Death Syphon, DnD, Death Coil and our Diseases are buffed by our Strength and maybe their corresponding masteries.
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90 Orc Death Knight
11375
I withdraw my previous comment as I was not aware of HB being affected by str/ap.
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90 Human Death Knight
10715
03/01/2013 12:44 PMPosted by Jagatron
I withdraw my previous comment as I was not aware of HB being affected by str/ap.


....
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100 Human Death Knight
19640
I ran some more reforge sims and it turns out Amulet of the Primal Turtle may indeed be BiS for the 2h/Unholy profile- I've adjusted it to reflect this.
This is mostly because the full BiS set lacks a lot of Expertise, which means that the Hit can usually be reforged out of quite safely. With that being said however, keep in mind that the set assumes you use both the cloak and chest off Ra-den, which lack accuracy stats.

In reality, we'll likely cap both stats much faster. This will mean the Talisman of Angry Spirits will, in practice, probably be preferable till you're past Lei Shen and Ra-den.

I've also added new BiS lists for 11/13 HMs completed, with no gear off heroic-Lei Shen or Ra den. Unfortunately, my suspicions turned out to be right: These profiles are overloaded with accuracy stats to the point of absurdity.

I'll continue to iterate on them as more information comes out. Remember that Heroic Thunderforged tags aren't available yet, so be smart when viewing the new lists as well: Unless it's a tier piece, chances of it having a 541 version are probable.

A few other things to note:

-We now know for sure that trash drops (i.e. 522 ilvl items) have Thunderforged versions. This means that items like a 528 version of Bo-ris or Greatsword of Frozen Hells do exist.

-I'm getting conflicting reports on 2 separate things about the BMAH: Firstly, that it is selling Heroic (535) versions of trash drops. Second, that is is also selling Thunderforged/Heroic Thunderforged items (528 and 541 respectively). Until we can ascertain the validity of these claims beyond any doubt, I'm operating under the assumption that they're false and have constructed BiS lists accordingly.
Edited by Magdalena on 3/1/2013 10:58 PM PST
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100 Night Elf Death Knight
15640
03/01/2013 12:44 PMPosted by Jagatron
I withdraw my previous comment as I was not aware of HB being affected by str/ap.


I don't know as much about DKs as some. Like you, I do a bit of PvP and Raid Finder. I mean, I try to read up about the class, but I'm no expert.

That's why, when someone whose character clearly is involved in the stuff I only read about posts information they clearly researched, I tend to assume that someone knows more than I do. Or, at least, I don't immediately jump in to tell them they're wrong.

If they tell me something I might disagree with, I go and try to find out why that is. Might dig around a bit and see if other Death Knights on that level have similar ideas. I don't do it to avoid looking dumb. I mean - I'm from Moon Guard. There's no way I can keep people from thinking the worst about me right off the bat. I do it because sometimes, it's best to think before you post.

For example - here we have someone wearing piles of heroic gear. Not just that - her hit cap and expertise cap are both friggin' perfect. Razor's edge. That, right there, is a character being played by someone who sank a whole lot of time into it, and clearly spends a whole lot of time squeezing every bit of advantage out of this game that she can. She is posting about what pile of heroic gear is going to be the best pile of heroic gear for the next patch.

So, people like you and me? We should sit on the side-lines and observe. Maybe we'll learn something.

And stop reforging your PvP gear out of Hit before you've even hit 3%.
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100 Human Death Knight
19640
03/01/2013 10:57 PMPosted by Magdalena
-I'm getting conflicting reports on 2 separate things about the BMAH: Firstly, that it is selling Heroic (535) versions of trash drops. Second, that is is also selling Thunderforged/Heroic Thunderforged items (528 and 541 respectively). Until we can ascertain the validity of these claims beyond any doubt, I'm operating under the assumption that they're false and have constructed BiS lists accordingly.


I have bad news on this front: It's confirmed as occurring not only on the PTR but even on Live (proof being that the heroic version of the Paladin healing bracers from Heart of Fear recently showed up on our realm). The heroic version of the trash gear is just incredibly rare, since it's also competing with other boss loot spots. On the PTR, this extends to Thunderforged gear as well.

What does this mean for our BiS lists?
Absolutely nothing. I am not altering the existing lists based on items that almost nobody will obtain due to how rare they are. We're all best off focusing our efforts towards gearing based off confirmed boss drops.
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90 Human Death Knight
11820
Apparently Greatsword of Frozen Hells was confirmed to be shared boss loot and can drop from any boss in Throne of Thunder, as well as obtainable through bonus rolls (does NOT come from the failbag though).
Edited by Dascylus on 3/11/2013 4:15 PM PDT
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