PvP is Fine.

90 Night Elf Hunter
4630
Ok,people are constantly complaining about pvp and everyone who complaining full epic elite geared players are not aloud in random bgs. And the complainers want balance. If you want balance this is the way it will work if you want a skill based gameplay.

Everyone will have to be fully gear maxed out so everyone is samely geared. That means gear is no longer a issue,everyone is same geared should be no problem about balance now. Its about skill now.

Now if thats what you want,which seems to me seems like every pvper wants is to have pvp a skill based thing. Thats how you could do it. But!!! That would be the most boring thing ever! And it will take the reward out of playing. Pvp is great where its at right now, and what i saw in the patch notes is not giving away gear,its making it so everyone is equally geared and so its not unbalanced between gear. But i would also like to say is that when you get a player,for instance patch 5.1 were in now. You see these elite geared players going into random bgs and wiping the other team. They deserve to do that. They worked so hard to become that epic of a greatly geared player and why not let them have fun with a toon they worked hard for. There is nothing wrong with that. I do get frustrated here or there when that happens to me, but it makes me wanna work harder to become that greatly epic player and do the same. PvP is fine. Nothing wrong with it. Yes its frustrating,But thats the fun of wanting to become epic and be the guy who isnt being frustrated anymore. And you dont always see that full out mav and epic geared player every bg. Just stop complaining and enjoy a wonderful game.
Edited by Yukkon on 2/24/2013 3:44 AM PST
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90 Human Hunter
4910
League of Legends is a skill based game and there is no gear disparity. Plenty of pvp players enjoy that game and don't find it boring.
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90 Human Rogue
2845
02/24/2013 04:33 AMPosted by Saarî
League of Legends is a skill based game and there is no gear disparity. Plenty of pvp players enjoy that game and don't find it boring.

You're clashing genres though. There is some spillover into both genres, sure. But I'm betting the majority of WoW players enjoy the grinds and progression. So your typical wow player probably would find it boring to have no gear progression at all in PvP. Some players would like it, there's no doubt about it. But GC said it best imo, that the game would have no legs (staying power) without gear progression.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6860
02/24/2013 04:33 AMPosted by Saarî
League of Legends is a skill based game and there is no gear disparity. Plenty of pvp players enjoy that game and don't find it boring.


And LoL forums are as full of complaining about balance as the WoW forums are.

Different games, different styles. What works for one may not work for the other.
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90 Gnome Priest
3045
02/24/2013 04:33 AMPosted by Saarî
League of Legends is a skill based game and there is no gear disparity. Plenty of pvp players enjoy that game and don't find it boring.


I don't want league of legends. I want wow which is a progression game. If you don't want a progression game don't play wow. That's like buying a Mario game and asking the devs to make it into halo.
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90 Undead Mage
1935
02/24/2013 05:00 AMPosted by Esclamayshun
But I'm betting the majority of WoW players enjoy the grinds and progression.
That is what Blizzard believes and I think they are right. The alternative is gear normalization & I am convinced that would make BGs unplayable for players like me that actually care about winning (i.e. it would just be death match after death match, because the incentive to win would be gone).

When this topic comes up (and it does often) I suggest that Wargames be modified to allow players to queue up (in full groups if they want) and have their gear normalized. That way they could prove their skill (without gear disparities) and rewards could be given out like transmog gear, pets, mounts, etc. with a certain rank (rank could be earned in much the same way as RBGs, but cosmetic rewards would replace conquest points). However whenever I suggest this the same players that cry "skill not gear" don't like it or ignore it. That strongly suggests to me that their motives are entirely different... they want a handout.
Edited by Kiaransali on 2/24/2013 8:40 AM PST
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Overall, I enjoy PvP, but I wouldn't consider it "fine". I'd like to think I'm understanding of players gearing their toons, but it really pisses me off when they can't comprehend that by being undergeared, they aren't the one who should be grabbing the flag. I can't tell you how many CTF games we've lost for this reason. And then to have that same crap geared player who cost us the game call the rest of us bad? Yeah, the player base is pretty bad these days. Please don't hand these players free gear, but I'm starting to think I'd be okay with a minimum ilvl requirement.

The combination of stupidity and gear disparity can certainly add to the frustration of PuG battlegrounds. Add in full premades and bots and it's not fine. Stupidity isn't something Blizzard can fix, but they can get a handle on the rest of it.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
9645
02/24/2013 09:26 AMPosted by Jadei
I can't tell you how many CTF games we've lost for this reason. And then to have that same crap geared player who cost us the game call the rest of us bad?


I think the worst offender I've seen was some rogue in greens sprinting, grab flag, go into tunnel and grab speed powerup.

Run smack into an entire Horde group alone, then get potty mouth at the rest of the group for his own mistake.
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90 Human Hunter
4910
02/24/2013 06:45 AMPosted by Mizriz
League of Legends is a skill based game and there is no gear disparity. Plenty of pvp players enjoy that game and don't find it boring.


I don't want league of legends. I want wow which is a progression game. If you don't want a progression game don't play wow. That's like buying a Mario game and asking the devs to make it into halo.


Um i have no issues with progression. Getting gear isn't an issue for me (quite easy imo if you play with decent players), however there can be other incentives other then gear that drive people to want to play this game for pvp. Titles, Talbards, Mounts, Unique transmog sets (Imo they should take a page from gold runs here not just recolor the gear red). There's plenty to keep people interested in this game in that sense.

The issue with this idea is that RBGs would just die off. There would be no reason people would play them and the entire point of this expansion is rbgs i guess (unless you have a reward worth grinding, possible i guess). I personally hate them. But its the fastest way to gear which is my goal. To each their own. One thing i do know is i'm tired of kids claiming gear disparity for their short comings.
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90 Dwarf Warlock
8795
02/24/2013 05:00 AMPosted by Esclamayshun
League of Legends is a skill based game and there is no gear disparity. Plenty of pvp players enjoy that game and don't find it boring.

You're clashing genres though. There is some spillover into both genres, sure. But I'm betting the majority of WoW players enjoy the grinds and progression. So your typical wow player probably would find it boring to have no gear progression at all in PvP. Some players would like it, there's no doubt about it. But GC said it best imo, that the game would have no legs (staying power) without gear progression.


^ this. An mmo with no progression system doesnt make sense its the surest way to kill the game. sure there would be a handful of pvpers left for a while but id bet 70% of the pvp base would vanish, including myself.
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90 Undead Monk
14140
^ this. An mmo with no progression system doesnt make sense its the surest way to kill the game. sure there would be a handful of pvpers left for a while but id bet 70% of the pvp base would vanish, including myself.


there are many ways to have character progression without more stats, and inflating the stats even more doesn't help balance problems on a different subjects of balance, most of all how unbelievable damage is scaling upwards with increases stats vs mitigation/survivability
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90 Human Hunter
4910
Heres an idea. Keep teir 2. Everyone has the same weekly cap. Keep the idea of incoorperating a catch up system. Give many different rewards for different things in rbgs/arenas to those that achieve the higher levels. Mounts, titles, talbards, mogs. Theres plenty you can add that will make it worth it to many people to continue doing both im very sure of this.

Problem solved. There's still progression. There's still a reason to do the different facets of this game. And i'm still gonna beat you, and there's gonna be even less reasons to complain about it :)
Edited by Saarî on 2/24/2013 12:43 PM PST
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90 Undead Rogue
9025
clue-less
some of the best games ever invented are balanced.

skill is the thing u want to count on to win a game
people get thrown out of sports for cheating or trying to unbalance a game because people like a fair contest of skill and brains.
the more unbalanced a game is the more boring it becomes.
till they stop playing it or dont care about it

bots........
think about it
Edited by Imback on 2/24/2013 12:55 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Rogue
9645
02/24/2013 12:50 PMPosted by Imback
clue-less


Care to elaborate instead of trolling just to be a douche?
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90 Orc Warrior
10085
The problem with pvp is that it's controlled by humans. We, as a species, are a parasite.
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90 Undead Mage
1935
02/24/2013 12:52 PMPosted by Kirama
Care to elaborate instead of trolling just to be a douche?
He is just spouting the "skill not gear" mantra with zero analysis or critical thinking. It's like a catchy political slogan that sounds great, but when you look at the big picture it's overly simplistic. There are valid reasons why the progression model works and other models usually don't.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
9645
02/24/2013 01:17 PMPosted by Kiaransali
There are valid reasons why the progression model works and other models usually don't.


Though I do agree with this;

02/24/2013 12:01 PMPosted by Stormspellx
there are many ways to have character progression without more stats, and inflating the stats even more doesn't help balance problems on a different subjects of balance, most of all how unbelievable damage is scaling upwards with increases stats vs mitigation/survivability


There was no reason at all for them to nerf our honor sets. Having no toon in full Malv, I'm still going strong, but their decision to do that was flat out retarded.
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90 Human Monk
9885
pvp is fine if you play the 5-6 op specs
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