XP off BGs outdated?



Regardless, I don't think XP off will cease being separated.


I don't either, but when people start the twink bashing, they're falling back on a very outdated low level PvP system. Player base was limited to battlegroups with 9 level differences in each bracket and BoA gear was nearly non-existent. There have been so many changes to low level PvP since xp off players played in the same battlegrounds as levelers.
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70 Night Elf Rogue
7410
02/24/2013 03:41 PMPosted by Warglaive
Is this seperation still necessary?


Yep.

/thread.
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90 Undead Warrior
10745
02/24/2013 04:06 PMPosted by Laurasia
It's more fun to play twink vs twink than twink vs levellers. You'd also lose the sense of community.


Twink communities suck.
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85 Dwarf Monk
8925
02/25/2013 02:07 AMPosted by Ghost
It's more fun to play twink vs twink than twink vs levellers. You'd also lose the sense of community.


Twink communities suck.


70 last pack, and 85 this pack are some of the best communities I've played with since before xrealm BG's.

Sure, there are jerks, egos, noobs, tryhards, trolls and bads, but at least when I zone into games, I see people I recognize and/or have rivalries with.

I understand the need for xrealm BG's so I have no problem with them, but I prefer a smaller set of players when I play.
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85 Dwarf Monk
8925
02/25/2013 05:25 AMPosted by Cezar


the people who stayed are the real community not some e-thugs who wanted to stomp lower elvel players with worse gear.


The irony is that "under geared scrubs" dont exist now days with BoA gear sets that darn near evry one has.

your point is invalid.


Actually, they do, and no it's not.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6860
The irony is that "under geared scrubs" dont exist now days with BoA gear sets that darn near evry one has.

your point is invalid.


A person in 'looms is not a twink.

A person in 'looms may be overgeared and may one shot someone just leveling through a bracket.

A real twink would hit that same undergeared person so hard it would uninstall their game files too.
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39 Draenei Shaman
965
To answer the OP, there are actually three issues getting conflated as one, and none of them have to do with why the XP-off separation remains. TL;DR version at the end.

Before the battleground split, all battlegrounds were XP-off, not XP-on. Which is to say, levelers didn't do BGs -- it was just for fun. Blizzard made the split so that levelers could earn XP apart from geared players, knowing levelers would have nowhere near the gear of veterans or even twinks.

The introduction and growth of BoAs introduced a serious power disparity between players who had BoAs and players who did not. This inadvertently reintroduced a twink-like issue in XP-on battlegrounds, but actual twinks still significantly outgear BoA-laden players, who in turn significantly outgear BoA-less players. This character (Zirise) brings a nearly optimal gearset, with only four BoAs. The importance of BoA gear for twinks diminishes to the point of disappearance by the time you reach the 70-74 bracket.

The first issue, then, is that twinks outgear BoA players by an increasingly large margin, starting small in the lower brackets, and reaching huge once you enter the upper brackets. Recombining BGs will exacerbate the gear disparity between players.

The second issue, 5.2's level scaling, won't actually impact games unless gear scales as well. Getting one-shot by someone four levels higher vs. getting one-shot by someone at the same level is still getting one-shot.

The third issue, grouping together f2p accounts and 24 XP-off players, stems from the unique limitations of f2p accounts and the 24s who leveraged the opportunity to participate in the bracket that f2ps created.

None of these issues have to do with the continued separation of XP-on and XP-off BGs. With the exceptions of f2p players and capped accounts (at 80 and 85), players who choose XP-off battlegrounds are there for the PvP. XP-on players bring additional motivations (such as honor farming and leveling) that run contrary to PvP objectives. Mixing both types of players will cause dissatisfaction on both sides: XP-off players want PvP-focused comrades and opponents, and XP-on players want non-PvE progression.

TL;DR: You're right that BoAs, 5.2 upleveling, and continued gear disparity do not support the separation of XP-off and XP-on BGs, but those aren't the reasons the battlegrounds got split in the first place. XP-on and XP-off battlegrounds serve different purposes that would conflict with each other if they combined.

Edit: typos

Edit2: To be clear, many capped accounts do PvP for its own sake, just like XP-off players.
Edited by Zirise on 2/25/2013 11:30 AM PST
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19 Human Priest
6860
I really like your response, Zirise. Blizz should sticky it!
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85 Dwarf Monk
8925
To answer the OP, there are actually three issues getting conflated as one, and none of them have to do with why the XP-off separation remains. TL;DR version at the end.

Before the battleground split, all battlegrounds were XP-off, not XP-on. Which is to say, levelers didn't do BGs -- it was just for fun. Blizzard made the split so that levelers could earn XP apart from geared players, knowing levelers would have nowhere near the gear of veterans or even twinks.


The underlined part is probably one of the most patently false things I've read on the forums in a long time.

Many levelers did do BG's, not to gain xp, but as a break from leveling or for fun, which is one reason why xp-off players were taken out of their queues.

The other reason is that the twinks were a deterrent for many players who would have liked to have done BG's but chose not to since it required hours and hours of preparation just to be relatively competitive, and they just did not want to invest the time.
Edited by Killdrix on 2/25/2013 1:00 PM PST
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39 Draenei Shaman
965
To answer the OP, there are actually three issues getting conflated as one, and none of them have to do with why the XP-off separation remains. TL;DR version at the end.

Before the battleground split, all battlegrounds were XP-off, not XP-on. Which is to say, levelers didn't do BGs -- it was just for fun. Blizzard made the split so that levelers could earn XP apart from geared players, knowing levelers would have nowhere near the gear of veterans or even twinks.


The underlined part is probably one of the most patently false things I've read on the forums in a long time.

Many levelers did do BG's, not to gain xp, but as a break from leveling or for fun, which is one reason why xp-off players were taken out of their queues.

The other reason is that the twinks were a deterrent for many players who would have liked to have done BG's but chose not to since it required hours and hours of preparation just to be relatively competitive, and they just did not want to invest the time.


That's a very good catch, Killdrix -- true, levelers did BGs all the time back then -- I phrased that very badly. Everyone played BGs with no ulterior intentions other than to play BGs. Some focused on BG objectives more than others, but everyone was there to PvP.
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70 Night Elf Rogue
7410
02/25/2013 01:51 PMPosted by Zirise
Everyone played BGs with no ulterior intentions other than to play BGs


Not entirely true. Back then the pvp rewards one received from the WSG/AB/AV quartermasters were well known about, and were also some decent gear upgrades for those willing to invest the time to pvp. Yes pvp probably was its own reward, or it certainly was for me. However, I still had a few times where I would pvp to get those gear upgrades for a character that I was leveling.

Its sad, but most people that play these days don't even know about the honor gear those quartermasters have available.

P.S. There were also pvp titles that were rewarded, if we are talking all the way back when. :p
Edited by Cerrîdwen on 2/25/2013 4:20 PM PST
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39 Draenei Shaman
965
02/25/2013 04:19 PMPosted by Cerrîdwen
Everyone played BGs with no ulterior intentions other than to play BGs


Not entirely true. Back then the pvp rewards one received from the WSG/AB/AV quartermasters were well known about, and were also some decent gear upgrades for those willing to invest the time to pvp. Yes pvp probably was its own reward, or it certainly was for me. However, I still had a few times where I would pvp to get those gear upgrades for a character that I was leveling.

Its sad, but most people that play these days don't even know about the honor gear those quartermasters have available.

P.S. There were also pvp titles that were rewarded, if we are talking all the way back when. :p


The marks of honor. :) Yes, I farmed those for easy upgrades for a few characters back in the day -- many did, as you noted. But with no XP earned, only the quick rewards saw farming. a few battlegrounds, then out. As for the titles, that was before my time, before battlegrounds got combined by battlegroup. I don't know what percentage of players undertook the unbelievable grind for those titles.
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90 Human Rogue
7765
I actually took my 19 Rogue Twink to BB where the twinks from both factions would gather to duel in an 'urban' setting. No long queue times, no breaks from the action. Just fair twink on twink PvP.

Yeah we missed out on tokens and honor, but it was fun. At least up until people got too used to each other and we all sort of went back to end-game.

Also Brumble.
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