Ideas for improving ret DPS in PVE

90 Draenei Paladin
9840
So, the title says it all. I'm not a very active fellow on the forums, usually I've just gone with the flow the entire time I've been playing my ret paladin as my main (since Karazan was current) but there's been a LOT of talk from individuals about ret's sustainability and I wanted to throw a few of my own ideas out there, and hear some from the community as well. Never know, Blizz might see it and run with it. Please note that I really have no interest in discussing PVP at all here. I understand that there ARE abilities that when implimented into PVE can affect PVP, but that isn't something I'll be bothering to look into for the purpose of this post. At any rate, I personally feel fairly comfortable with where ret is, but it COULD get tuned up a smidge, and here's a few idea's on how to do that...

Giving ret consecration back - So there's a two-sided gain to this. The first is the every-so-often lack of buttons to hit to throw this into the mix. The second is that ret AOE is currently pretty bad and could use a little love.

Buffing Art of War - If you gave art of war, which is currently our only RNG proc (unless you're specced into DP for some reason) say, a 5-10% higher chance to proc, it would give one of our harder hitting spells (exo) a few extra love taps on the boss versus wasting them, say, on judgment. Which brings me to point 3...

Just buff Judgment - The damage from this is sadly low, and it's not nearly as fun of an ability as it used to be. If it were to (a) recieve the old varience it had when used in conjunction with different seals, (b) do appriximately 10-15% more damage, or (c) have the cooldown dropped by a second or so, it would probably feel a little more worth hitting.

The 'Mega holy power charge" - So this would effectivly be similar to combo points, but for pallys. How it would function would be that every time you used a specific ability (most effectively TV or Exo) you would gain an especially powerful charge of holy power outside of the normal holy power charge pool. These charges would be target-specific, similar to combo points. Once the max of 3 charges was reached, your next TV would do double it's normal damage. The only problem I see with this proc'ing off of TV would be the combo of divine purpose being very OP with it. I would imagine an ICD of roughly 12-20 seconds would need to be implimented at that point.

And my personaly favorite...

Crate a new passive that would allow HoW to proc outside of execute range -
Essentially, this ability would allow HoW to proc above the 20% threshold, possibly outside the GCD (would be optimal) and would still retain its 6 second cooldown. This ability would NOT reset the cooldown on HoW, allowing to proc nomore than once every 6 seconds. It would have to use a fairly small chance rate, probably in the 10-15% range, considering at this point in the game haste levels are going to continue skyrocketing each patch.

Hope you guys enjoy these ideas and please add your own to the list! Constructive critisizm is more than welcome. I'm trying to help build the community, not be dicks to each other for the sake of it. Cheers all!
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10745
I want Hammer of Wrath to have a higher crit chance when a target is less than 20% life.

Btw, you're under the hit cap.
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90 Draenei Paladin
9840
I'm a Dranei. 1% extra hit :) It doesn't show up in the armory.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10745
Ohh thought it does show. Ret AoE isn't too bad but for fights like the 3rd boss from ToE i'm sitting on my thumbs whenever the boss hides which pisses me off.
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100 Human Paladin
16360
I cant speak for the rest of the rets out there, but I personally do NOT want Consecration back in our rotation, aoe damage or not. I do like the Judgment buff and/or the Art of War buff, those two would be simple and help us out tremendously. As far as the others, prolly too OP. But, with all of this said, I think now and even more with 5.2, I like where rets at. What everyone needs to know, is ret is very gear dependent, prolly more than any other class. Get better gear and dps will rise to the occasion.
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90 Draenei Paladin
9840
I don't disagree with ret being good where it's at. I personally do my fair share around 100k DPs or so in my 10m raids (pending on the fight). I'm just saying in the broader terms, there are a few small tweaks that can easily be made to make balance issues less of an issue. I'm sure some of the ideas seem a little too powerful, but those were just examples of things that could be done, given the proper attention to math.
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90 Gnome Warlock
14530
Take 1 second off crusader strike, cut in half the CD on exo and increase melee attack speed by 25% (our weapons must be heavy /roll eyes)... maybe take divine storm off the holy power chart and have it be it's own separate spell that shared a CD with crusader strike...
Edited by Spàz on 2/25/2013 12:52 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
18460
Consecration, huh? The spell that's historically been a filler and a mana killer. Well, the only reason I'd support that is if I ever decide to race change to Human and change my name to JoseConsecraco.

'Cause Jose Conseco's relevance is pretty much at it's end, and now is the time!
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100 Orc Death Knight
18210
Retribution really doesn't need single target DPS increase in PvE, it also doesn't need a traditional AoE buff.

I think the thing that's often overlooked compared to MOST melee is the fact the retribution has an awkward place where they have to choose between AoE and single target, in effect what I am trying to say is you lack a worthwhile cleave.

When you go into AoE you sacrifice a large chunk of single target DPS and when you single target your base rotation isn't contributing anything to AoE. Retribution in WoTLk had cleave built into it's rotation with divine storm but was taken out in Cataclysm.

You have mass exorcism as a glyph but I think it's personally far too restrictive, and the damage from the cleave really isn't all that large. Retribution doesn't naturally cleave (cleave is different than AoE) like DKs/Warriors and I think that's a problem that has existed for quite some time.

One of GCs messages about class balanced indicated that they were quite happy with retribution single target but that they seemed to fall behind when it came to multi target fights (to me that reads fights where it isn't worthwhile to AoE). Fights like Garalon benefit a Frost DK so much as we can do massive cleave while maintaining a 100% single target rotation, there really isn't a trade off.

Anyways I think a good place to look without shifting single target or balance in PvP would be to for now greatly improve the mass exorcism glyph. You could remove the silly melee restriction, buff the splash to 10 yards and greatly increase the damage up to 50-75% of exorcisms damage. It essentially would turn exorcism into a clone of howling blast conceptually, but it would still be different (HB being more on demand, exo being random but high damage which wouldn't really spread anything beneficial). This way you don't have an awkward place between "Do I AoE, or do I single target" and you won't see your damage drop when a couple adds float by that aren't really worth switching to a full blown AoE rotation.

It's messy maintaining it as a glyph but I think that functionality would need to remain in the meantime because if it were baseline it might causes some messy things with exo breaking CC in PvP.
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90 Undead Mage
14465
The issue definitely seems to be in their lack of cleave compared to their competition. I don't know what the general consensus is on how fun Inquisition is or isn't to keep afloat in fights, but what if having it up allowed Templar's Verdict and/or Crusader Strike to cleave? That would also allow Censure to land on other targets for a little extra peppering of damage while using Seal of Truth.

If they do give rets cleave, I want them to apply it in a creative/interesting way - without deviating from how straightforward a lot of their abilities are, anyway, because that's what I like about them.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10745
02/25/2013 01:40 PMPosted by Gròmmash
You could remove the silly melee restriction, buff the splash to 10 yards and greatly increase the damage up to 50-75% of exorcisms damage


Sounds interesting but it would make the glyph nearly mandatory and if it's too appealing blizz would nerf it. Hopefully the buff to righteousness would make it so people would actually use it to AoE. Still hoping for HoR work without a target like Divine Storm or Blood Boil since the animation is really similar.
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Gròmmash has hit the nail on the head. Our single target is okay, not great but okay. Our aoe and cleave is awful and we have to sacrifice a lot of single target damage to do so. Our burst is too high and our sustained is average at best. Shifting some of that damage into sustained would help but then our pvp would suffer as a result.

We'll have to see how it plays out but with the 5.2 approaching soon the devs don't have long.
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