5.2 PTR CM nerf reverted; Pyro nerfed 10%

100 Human Mage
14135
Also, the issues with fire is an undirect consequence of item level inflation. Back in the old times, that balance is done only within a range of...say 70 item levels, recall the 5H in the time of CTM gives 346 blue and H DW gives 416.

But now all the balance is done within a range..expected to be 150 item levels or even more, as nowdays 5H gives 463 and by the second tier of MOP you will likely get 540 gear already. Not to mention there are still 5.3 and 5.4, and some thunderforged gear and item level boost system. I won't be surprised if we get more than 600+ item level by the end of MOP. And at that time the balance will be nothing but a giant mess.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17070
^^ This is very true. I have a feeling in the span of a tier and a half, we have almost exceeded the iLvl spread of all of cataclysm.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
03/01/2013 12:13 AMPosted by Medívh
Out of curiosity who do you think they are agreeing with? Themselves? Did they release another CM nerf announcement and then retract it within 24 hours because they simply had a change of heart based on mythical, magical "internal testing" overnight and the player feedback had no influence on their decision at all? Just giving you enough rope to hang yourself with.


Probably the guy on twitter he was talking to.

EDIT:

So just to get this straight, Blizzard's internal testing is "mythical" and doesn't happen at all. There's no way this outcome is the result of testing, the only influence was screeching forum posts. Just giving you enough rope to hang yourself with.
Edited by Mahourai on 3/1/2013 12:30 PM PST
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100 Human Mage
14240
03/01/2013 12:08 PMPosted by Kagecamia
Still the pyroblast nerf should keep fire in line without being too far ahead.

As of the latest SimC profile lhiv posted last night, it's a 3.5% nerf (not factoring in the increase of CM from 1.2->1.3 at all, if that was taken out yet.)
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17070
@ Mahourai

This non-stop berating and name calling was the same crap you were pulling in the healing forums. Just stop.
Edited by Taymage on 3/1/2013 12:31 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
03/01/2013 12:30 PMPosted by Taymage
This non-stop berating and name calling was the same crap you were pulling in the healing forums. Just stop.


It's sickening to see you patting yourself on the back for the victory your horrific posting on the issue brought you. Here's some of your insightful, fact-based posting that surely was the linchpin of the conversation on this issue.

There is no testing, or at least no testing that gives any valuable information. Or maybe they just don't give a crap.


the "lead" designer has no idea what is going on in his own game.

@developers

Please don't listen to people who have two Frost specs, who don't play fire, and who haven't raided in two expansions


The MVP isn't reasonable, nor does he know what he is talking about.

Stop.

Just stop.

Go back to talking about Water Jet or something.


And in swoops the frost mage MVP who hasn't raided in years... Pathetic.


And you have the gall to post about berating and name-calling?

EDIT:

Lest it appear that your posting is limited only to trying to impugn people's credentials you also offered this stellar theorycrafting once the change was announced:

What the !@#$. Are you serious... WTF... eff. off.... CM at 1.2 is a complete and utter joke. This is so stupid, I don't even know what to say.... This is absolute garbage.... This is gibberish.


If only we had gotten you on the case sooner we could solve all the Fire balance problems!

EDIT EDIT:

Your only substantive posting on the issue was disputing the accuracy of someone's PTR testing by saying they rigged the logs to give an unbalanced picture by ending the log early. No, seriously, you're congratulating yourself for the work of insulting someone's actual testing compared to the BS you were spinning. Not to mention your blatant lies about Fire being "mediocre" when it is only outperformed by specs like Arcane, Affliction and Combat in the raidbots links you were touting, which you brazenly posted assuming that numbers were terrifying and alien to people who disagree with you.
Edited by Mahourai on 3/1/2013 12:48 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
10440
Out of curiosity who do you think they are agreeing with? Themselves? Did they release another CM nerf announcement and then retract it within 24 hours because they simply had a change of heart based on mythical, magical "internal testing" overnight and the player feedback had no influence on their decision at all? Just giving you enough rope to hang yourself with.


Probably the guy on twitter he was talking to.

EDIT:

So just to get this straight, Blizzard's internal testing is "mythical" and doesn't happen at all. There's no way this outcome is the result of testing, the only influence was screeching forum posts. Just giving you enough rope to hang yourself with.


Oh so your contention is that a lone brave soul on twitter with calm and reasoned arguments single handedly changed the mind of Gregg Street and none of the other fallout out had any impact at all. Thanks for clearing that up, idiot.

And no, Blizzard's internal testing is meaningless. My sarcasm is to you sycophants who insist that their internal testing is a magical fairy wonderland where everything is balanced, but only when the next patch is coming up and their past track record shouldn't be considered at all when gauging the accuracy of further development changes.
Edited by Medívh on 3/1/2013 12:55 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000

Oh so your contention is that a lone brave soul on twitter with calm and reasoned arguments single handedly changed the mind of Gregg Street and none of the other fallout out had any impact at all. Thanks for clearing that up, idiot.

And no, Blizzard's internal testing is meaningless. My sarcasm is to you sycophants who insist that their internal testing is a magical fairy wonderland where everything is balanced, but only when the next patch is coming up and their past track record shouldn't be considered at all when gauging the accuracy of further development changes.


Thanks, if you're to be believed, posting unsubstantiated bile is really how balance issues get solved, so with a few more posts like this my mage oughta be bangin' in 5.2
Edited by Mahourai on 3/1/2013 12:58 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
10440

Oh so your contention is that a lone brave soul on twitter with calm and reasoned arguments single handedly changed the mind of Gregg Street and none of the other fallout out had any impact at all. Thanks for clearing that up, idiot.

And no, Blizzard's internal testing is meaningless. My sarcasm is to you sycophants who insist that their internal testing is a magical fairy wonderland where everything is balanced, but only when the next patch is coming up and their past track record shouldn't be considered at all when gauging the accuracy of further development changes.


Thanks, if you're to be believed, posting unsubstantiated bile is really how balance issues get solved, so with a few more posts like this my mage oughta be bangin' in 5.2


Now you're getting it. You're finally learning how Blizzard's "internal testing" really works. People QQ and get what they want, balance be damned, whether its PvE or PvP.
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90 Human Mage
9195
02/28/2013 09:31 PMPosted by Digerati
Thanks Blizzard. Nerfing Pyro is the right approach IMO. Still wish we had LB cleave back though =p


Yeah, it hurts without it.
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90 Troll Mage
15205
I will repeat,

ITT: the mage conspiracy theorists.

You are aware that 9/11 wasn't an inside job right?
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90 Blood Elf Mage
10440
I will repeat,

ITT: the mage conspiracy theorists.

You are aware that 9/11 wasn't an inside job right?


That's what the Illuminati want you to think.

That's what I'm expected to say, right?

I'm amused by the statement "I expect a company to respond to market pressures" equates to being a "conspiracy theoriest".
Edited by Medívh on 3/1/2013 1:39 PM PST
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Human Mage
10015
Some calm and reasoned statements on the subject, along with ideas about the nonlinear version of CM, were made in the PTR feedback thread where GC responded. Since that's where they were seeking feedback, it seems reasonable to assume that's the feedback they were referring to.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
0

Oh so your contention is that a lone brave soul on twitter with calm and reasoned arguments single handedly changed the mind of Gregg Street and none of the other fallout out had any impact at all. Thanks for clearing that up, idiot.

And no, Blizzard's internal testing is meaningless. My sarcasm is to you sycophants who insist that their internal testing is a magical fairy wonderland where everything is balanced, but only when the next patch is coming up and their past track record shouldn't be considered at all when gauging the accuracy of further development changes.


Thanks, if you're to be believed, posting unsubstantiated bile is really how balance issues get solved, so with a few more posts like this my mage oughta be bangin' in 5.2


Because there wasn't a single level-headed, completely reasonable post about how nerfing CM over and over was a bad idea that produced a number of consequences that weren't good for the game, while only very temporarily solving the problem they set out to fix by nerfing it. Right?

It didn't take a genius to figure out that the nerf cycle to CM had very negative consequences for the spec. Less crits = less procs = less fun, and the original problem is simply delayed for a few months.

Making a spec temporarily less fun, and then nerfing it again when people start getting enough gear to make it fun again is a horrendous design direction, and it almost happened 2 content patches in a row. Wouldn't you be a little annoyed to watch somebody make the same mistake twice?
Edited by Kaikou on 3/1/2013 1:48 PM PST
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90 Troll Mage
15205
I will repeat,

ITT: the mage conspiracy theorists.

You are aware that 9/11 wasn't an inside job right?


That's what the Illuminati want you to think.

That's what I'm expected to say, right?

I'm amused by the statement "I expect a company to respond to market pressures" equates to being a "conspiracy theoriest".


Where did I or anyone else say that?

Its the belief that blizzard is lying about having testing done when there is no proof for them to be lying.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
0
03/01/2013 12:39 PMPosted by Kagecamia
Arold was one of the few mages that stated the amount of damage on the ptr was a bit too much with 1.3 and that the nerf was fine to keep it from (pun un-intended) turning into a balancing wildfire.


Whether fire is doing too much damage or not is 100% irrelevant to the assertion that nerfing CM is quite possibly the worst way you could nerf fire to keep its DPS in check.

And it has been since 5.1. We are aware that fire scales too well. We are aware that something needs to be done to reign in that scaling.

Nerfing CM is not the way to do it. At least not until they normalize proc rates across all gear levels.
Edited by Kaikou on 3/1/2013 2:03 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17070
03/01/2013 01:58 PMPosted by Hiroran
Its the belief that blizzard is lying about having testing done when there is no proof for them to be lying.


Who said that?
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