Bloodbath glitched or working as intended?

90 Human Warrior
uhh
7045
is bloodbath glitched or working as intended when it is removed by hand of freedom or anything of that sort.
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90 Tauren Warrior
8075
I would assume this is a bug blizzard has been overlooking for the past 5 months. It get's removed because its a single debuff that is a bleed and a slow, so anything that removes slows (druid shifting, masters call, freedom, monk freedom, etc) also removes the bloodbath debuff. Rather obnoxious.
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90 Worgen Warrior
7255
I don't think this is a glitch, I think this is working as intended. This is also a drawback of Bloodbath and PVP, and the reason why it's typically a less desirable choice to Avatar in PVP situations.
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90 Tauren Warrior
7705
02/21/2013 02:40 PMPosted by Herbatron
I would assume this is a bug blizzard has been overlooking for the past 5 months. It get's removed because its a single debuff that is a bleed and a slow, so anything that removes slows (druid shifting, masters call, freedom, monk freedom, etc) also removes the bloodbath debuff. Rather obnoxious.


Pretty much a very inconvenient oversight it would seem. I much prefer this skill to avatar due to its shorter CD but at least in arena its very counterable.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
15120
02/21/2013 05:09 PMPosted by Dreadhoof
Pretty much a very inconvenient oversight it would seem. I much prefer this skill to avatar due to its shorter CD but at least in arena its very counterable.


remorseless winter is counter-able in the exact same way. a paladin can just freedom the stacking buff right off and neuter the whole ability.

its not a big deal. the other two talents on that tier are both really good.
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90 Tauren Warrior
8075

remorseless winter is counter-able in the exact same way. a paladin can just freedom the stacking buff right off and neuter the whole ability.

its not a big deal. the other two talents on that tier are both really good.


True, but remorseless winter is an aoe slow with a 6 second AoE CC slapped onto it, making it much stronger then the single target bloodbath. Not to mention they're on the same cd. Having an already lackluster ability (in pvp) be rendered almost completely useless due to the fact that most classes can remove slows on their own doesn't make much sense.

Not saying that stuff like freedom should remove RW, but the two abilities shouldn't be compared as though they are of equal value.

Yes, we have other options, but DK's can also pick up a second trinket as well to replace RW. Does that mean they should? No. All choices should remain at least somewhat viable.
Edited by Herbatron on 2/22/2013 2:31 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Warrior
11280
This is not a bug but working as intended :( Druids can remove it too.
Just go avatar for PvP they wont be fixing bloodbath PvP
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
15120
02/22/2013 02:29 AMPosted by Herbatron
Having an already lackluster ability (in pvp) be rendered almost completely useless due to the fact that most classes can remove slows on their own doesn't make much sense.


its a lackluster ability on a tier that already has two amazing pvp abilities. not every ability in the game needs to be pvp viable.

and its not like bloodbath is completely useless either. its amazing for pve.
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90 Orc Warrior
5210
its a lackluster ability on a tier that already has two amazing pvp abilities. not every ability in the game needs to be pvp viable.

and its not like bloodbath is completely useless either. its amazing for pve.


Uhh that was kinda the whole point of blizz revamping the talent system, they didnt like certain abilties only useful in pvp and other only good in pve. They stated there goal was to have the talents all be pretty much viable in any situation.

Are there going to be ones better then others? Of course, but the fact is, they want them to be close and competitive. Having a cd be countered by a root break or freedoms that almost every class has thats on a shorter cd then the ability and can always be up when ever you use it is a bad design. That goes for Rw as well.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
15120
02/22/2013 08:11 AMPosted by Ezyo
Uhh that was kinda the whole point of blizz revamping the talent system, they didnt like certain abilties only useful in pvp and other only good in pve. They stated there goal was to have the talents all be pretty much viable in any situation.


if you hadn't noticed this, but blizz failed in this regard. but there is already a lot more variation. the fact that stormbolt is sometimes situationally better then avatar, or that staggering is sometimes better then disrupting, thats a lot more variation then when every single warrior had the exact same talent spread.

there are a lot of talents that are useless in pvp, but excellent in pve. its when a talent is useless in BOTH then the talent is a problem
Edited by Idoma on 2/22/2013 8:21 AM PST
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90 Orc Warrior
5210
if you hadn't noticed this, but blizz failed in this regard. but there is already a lot more variation. the fact that stormbolt is sometimes situationally better then avatar, or that staggering is sometimes better then disrupting, thats a lot more variation then when every single warrior had the exact same talent spread.

there are a lot of talents that are useless in pvp, but excellent in pve. its when a talent is useless in BOTH then the talent is a problem


Of course i noticed they haven't gotten it right, even if they made all of them just about equal min/maxers will find out which one is the best, the fact that BB can be countered so easily is a problem though, using a cd correctly should force d cds, however in bb's case it requires hitting your freedom/root break macro negating its effects entirely.

And we do have useless talents in both aspects of the game coming in 5.2, its warbringer, and to a lesser extent, bladestorm.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
15120
02/22/2013 09:36 AMPosted by Ezyo
And we do have useless talents in both aspects of the game coming in 5.2, its warbringer, and to a lesser extent, bladestorm.


warbringer is still useful. god forbid you have to juggle diminishing returns. its still an untrinketable stun just like throwdown was. in it's current form its absolutely unbalanced.
but then i always considered juggernaut to be the best and most balanced talent on that tier. it will be even more so now that rage will actually be an issue.

i agree bladestorm needs buffs. safeguard pretty much makes it redundent.

as i mentioned, remorseless winter can be countered in the exact same way as bloodbath. sucks. but its not like you don't have two talents on that tier that are excellent.

i might go even further and point out that stormbolt is pretty darn useless in pve. maybe the damage buffs will help next tier, but i doubt it. right now i can't think of a single situation where it out parses bloodbath or avatar.
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90 Tauren Warrior
8075
I understand what you mean, but honestly with something that is such an easy fix, there is no reason for it to be as it is. Stormbolt is in a situation where it would be much harder to balance it out for both pve and pvp. I can understand that being bad in pve. There is no excuse like that for BB.
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90 Orc Warrior
10290
True, but remorseless winter is an aoe slow with a 6 second AoE CC slapped onto it, making it much stronger then the single target bloodbath.
Bloodbath is not neccesarily single target. Any aoe attack the warriors will apply to all targets in range.

its not a big deal. the other two talents on that tier are both really good.


I have to agree.
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90 Orc Warrior
5210
warbringer is still useful. god forbid you have to juggle diminishing returns. its still an untrinketable stun just like throwdown was. in it's current form its absolutely unbalanced.
but then i always considered juggernaut to be the best and most balanced talent on that tier. it will be even more so now that rage will actually be an issue.


No war bringer will be pretty much useless, The thing that makes it so good on live is that it doesn't Dr, meaning your giving up mobility and gaining control, and yes currently it is OP as hell.

However, in 5.2 its going to be unused because you can get the same results going jugg and glyph of blitz (5.2 WB stuns and slows, Glyph of blitz stuns and slows target and 2 closest targets) plus you get a longer stun cycle going juggernaut/Double time >shockwave (5.5 sec stun) as opposed to Wb > shockwave (5 sec stun) all the while getting more mobility, more rage and ironically more control. At this point they should just scrap it all together and replace it with something new.

i agree bladestorm needs buffs. safeguard pretty much makes it redundent.

as i mentioned, remorseless winter can be countered in the exact same way as bloodbath. sucks. but its not like you don't have two talents on that tier that are excellent.


BS needs a buff other then becoming undisarmable. (Preferably I would like to see it go to a 45 sec cd, 3 sec duration dealing 150% wep damage. Down from 1 min 30 sec cd 6 sec duration with 120% wep damage.)
It would open up more utility based usage for it as well as not causing it to eat up as many globals, in pvp it was always used as a glorified root break and people usually had a cancel macro because they didnt need the full 6 sec, and 3 sec would be perfect.

Right there are two other good talents but why not have BB and RW give 2 debuffs, that way yes you can freedom RW but if your still in range you can still be stunned, and for BB you can freedom it but your still taking dot damage.

i might go even further and point out that stormbolt is pretty darn useless in pve. maybe the damage buffs will help next tier, but i doubt it. right now i can't think of a single situation where it out parses bloodbath or avatar.


For SB it could possibly use a slight damage buff (maybe 135-140% wep damage up from the 125%)
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90 Tauren Warrior
8075
Bloodbath is not neccesarily single target. Any aoe attack the warriors will apply to all targets in range.


Yes, but most of a warrior's toolkit is single target, where as our aoe is sadly lacking. Whirlwind is not cost effect for the amount of damage it puts out, and bladestorm is not as effective as shockwave. I'm not even sure if sweeping strikes applies the debuff, but if it does it would fall into the same category as whirlwind.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
15120
02/22/2013 03:35 PMPosted by Ezyo
BS needs a buff other then becoming undisarmable


keep in mind, i remember when bladestorm first became disarmable, before that if you let a warrior anywhere near you while he was bladestorming he instagibbed you, god forbid he got a grim toll proc. it wasn't till later that it became more about getting out of roots then damage.

bladestorm is an example of an ability that is bad because its not good in pvp or in pve. bloodbath is good in pve, really good. so it is a successful ability. stormbolt is good in pvp. so it is a successful ability.

02/22/2013 03:35 PMPosted by Ezyo
For SB it could possibly use a slight damage buff (maybe 135-140% wep damage up from the 125%)


its getting a fairly large damage buff on targets immune to stuns, ie bosses, but i don't think its really that useful. blood bath is amazing for aoe, avatar is better for burst, stormbolt will just become a rotational ability which you push when you don't have anything else to push. but its very good for pvp.

02/22/2013 03:35 PMPosted by Ezyo
No war bringer will be pretty much useless, The thing that makes it so good on live is that it doesn't Dr, meaning your giving up mobility and gaining control, and yes currently it is OP as hell.


no, its just not going to fine. untrinketable anything is frustrating as hell and it doesn't have throwdown's issue with dodge/parry. you just can't put some one into a warbringer shockwave chain anymore with out running into DR issues. things that dr only with themselves are very very bad for balance(ahemcycloneachem)

02/22/2013 06:25 PMPosted by Herbatron
Yes, but most of a warrior's toolkit is single target, where as our aoe is sadly lacking.


warriors are the kings of cleave now that combat rogues have been slapped with a nerf bat.
Edited by Idoma on 2/22/2013 8:38 PM PST
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90 Tauren Warrior
8075

Yes, but most of a warrior's toolkit is single target, where as our aoe is sadly lacking.


warriors are the kings of cleave now that combat rogues have been slapped with a nerf bat.


I'm talking about pvp, not pve. If you can think of one ability that we have that hits multiple targets for more then 20ish k, I gif u many cookies.
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90 Human Warrior
RX
7525

there are a lot of talents that are useless in pvp, but excellent in pve. its when a talent is useless in BOTH then the talent is a problem


Uh no, if it's doing too much damage in both then it's a problem. If it's balanced and good in both it's called a good talent.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
15120
02/23/2013 12:01 AMPosted by Rtx
Uh no, if it's doing too much damage in both then it's a problem. If it's balanced and good in both it's called a good talent.


lol?

if a talent is useless in both pvp and pve, and no one takes it, it means its a bad talent and needs to be redesigned.

reading comprehension is hard.

02/22/2013 10:38 PMPosted by Herbatron
I'm talking about pvp, not pve. If you can think of one ability that we have that hits multiple targets for more then 20ish k, I gif u many cookies.


wat. why are you aoeing in pvp? single target is much much more effective. be happy you actually have a non targeted aoe to keep people off nodes unlike some melee.
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