Coil should be baseline..

90 Human Paladin
3960
I think they should make Death Coil baseline again.. having to pick it over howl of terror is really dumb or vice versa. It's almost as dumb as how rogue has to take shadowstep or preperation.. if they're buffing rogues to have prep baseline I think warlock should have coil as well especially after the change to Blood Fear.
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90 Undead Warlock
5500
The "class x gets this, so I should get similar treatment" argument doesn't do much for people. I also play a rogue, and prep baseline is something long over due.

With that said, I agree with you about Death Coil, simply because locks have had that as a tool for how long? Oh right, forever.
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90 Human Warlock
2315
Regular Fear
Blood Horror
Death Coil
Howl of Terror

Tell me how having 4 fears is not OP. I think a fair fight involves them having more than 3 seconds to attack you

Plus with all that CC all our other utility abilities become useless
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90 Undead Warlock
13160
I agree that MC should be made baseline, but at a 1 min CD (up from 45 secs) and with only a 10% heal (down from 15%)

Regular Fear
Blood Horror
Death Coil
Howl of Terror

Tell me how having 4 fears is not OP. I think a fair fight involves them having more than 3 seconds to attack you

Plus with all that CC all our other utility abilities become useless


because Fear has DR's? Also, Mages have more CC than that, and not on DRs.

Also, Mortal Coil and BH are Horror, and BH only works on Melee hits.

Fear is not instant, and Howl has a short AoE range.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
17205
02/25/2013 11:17 PMPosted by Xaad
Tell me how having 4 fears is not OP.


Having similar DRing abilities is worse than separate ones (coil and blood horror are actually horrify, not fear). The issue is being unable to compete with all the new abilities other classes gained in MoP after we lost so much going into it.
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90 Undead Warlock
10155
02/25/2013 11:17 PMPosted by Xaad
I think a fair fight involves them having more than 3 seconds to attack you


TELL THAT TO A WARRI-!@#$%! *sulks in corner*

Regular fear DRs with Howl of Terror. Blood Horror can be reflected (mass, or singular). Regular fear is also like casting a Chaos Bolt.. It just screams "Hey, look here.. I'm a Warlock casting something.. better interrupt/CC me!"..

02/25/2013 11:31 PMPosted by Methalos
because Fear has DR's?


Good ol' Vanilla. The days of Fear without DR :3.

If anything.. give us back our 'overpowered' non-combat requiring Evocation; Soul Harvest.
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90 Human Warlock
2315
02/25/2013 11:31 PMPosted by Methalos
I agree that MC should be made baseline, but at a 1 min CD (up from 45 secs) and with only a 10% heal (down from 15%)


Under conditions like that I would agree with it being baseline, then perhaps a talent to improve mortal coil

I just recently started playing again after a few years so I need to ask, DR is not shared across horrified and fear? Essentially they are both entirely different forms of CC correct?
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90 Undead Warlock
5500
[quote="79791311415"]
I just recently started playing again after a few years so I need to ask, DR is not shared across horrified and fear? Essentially they are both entirely different forms of CC correct?


That is correct.
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90 Orc Warlock
13785
If it was to be made baseline it should be way worse than mortal coil. Probably 1.5 minute CD (twice the cd) and 5% healing.
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90 Human Warlock
6840
Regular Fear
Blood Horror
Death Coil
Howl of Terror

Tell me how having 4 fears is not OP. I think a fair fight involves them having more than 3 seconds to attack you

Plus with all that CC all our other utility abilities become useless
regular fear and howl DR together so your comment makes no sense.
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2 Orc Warlock
0
02/26/2013 01:56 PMPosted by Lokthen
If it was to be made baseline it should be way worse than mortal coil. Probably 1.5 minute CD (twice the cd) and 5% healing.
I don't understand why they refrain from letting us have reliable cc. Reliable meaning not every class has a dang cd to blow when they want to get out of it.

i personally think they should make howl of terror, mortal coil, and shadowfury baseline, and let the talents improve their ability.

For example:

Shadowfury would be a 40 second cd, with a .5 second cast. If talented it would be instant cast and the cd would be reduced by 10 seconds.

Mortal coil would be a 1 min 30 second cd, and heal for 10% of your total health. If talented it's cooldown would be reduced to 1 min and the heal would be 15%.

Howl of terror would be a 40 second cd and have a 1.5 second cast. If talented it would be instant cast and physical attacks would reduce the cd by 1 second.

Do this and warlocks gain more survivability than any cd we currently have. Warlocks never needed defensive cds, we needed reliable cc.
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90 Human Warlock
6840
02/26/2013 02:04 PMPosted by Sathrago
If it was to be made baseline it should be way worse than mortal coil. Probably 1.5 minute CD (twice the cd) and 5% healing.
I don't understand why they refrain from letting us have reliable cc. Reliable meaning not every class has a dang cd to blow when they want to get out of it.

i personally think they should make howl of terror, mortal coil, and shadowfury baseline, and let the talents improve their ability.

For example:

Shadowfury would be a 40 second cd, with a .5 second cast. If talented it would be instant cast and the cd would be reduced by 10 seconds.

Mortal coil would be a 1 min 30 second cd, and heal for 10% of your total health. If talented it's cooldown would be reduced to 1 min and the heal would be 15%.

Howl of terror would be a 40 second cd and have a 1.5 second cast. If talented it would be instant cast and physical attacks would reduce the cd by 1 second.

Do this and warlocks gain more survivability than any cd we currently have. Warlocks never needed defensive cds, we needed reliable cc.
agreed.
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90 Undead Warlock
3560
Regular Fear
Blood Horror
Death Coil
Howl of Terror

Tell me how having 4 fears is not OP. I think a fair fight involves them having more than 3 seconds to attack you

Plus with all that CC all our other utility abilities become useless


2 of those things are not fears, you idiot.
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90 Human Warlock
6840
Regular Fear
Blood Horror
Death Coil
Howl of Terror

Tell me how having 4 fears is not OP. I think a fair fight involves them having more than 3 seconds to attack you

Plus with all that CC all our other utility abilities become useless


2 of those things are not fears, you idiot.
so its ok to look at the CC mages have and just look the other way then? And besides the point every class has more than 2 forms of CC. Ppl should quit complaining about a class when they have no idea what other classes can do also.
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2 Orc Warlock
0
Regular Fear
Blood Horror
Death Coil
Howl of Terror

Tell me how having 4 fears is not OP. I think a fair fight involves them having more than 3 seconds to attack you

Plus with all that CC all our other utility abilities become useless
Let me explain to you where you went wrong with your horrible argument.

If a warlock picked to use blood fear, it replaces fear. that means we no longer have the choice of spamming fear. it's a 10 second cd instant cast that also costs health.

Mortal* coil is a horror effect, that lasts 3 seconds. This is used as more of an interrupt or last second peeling ability rather than purely for cc. It also has a 45 second cooldown, which leaves us with a max of two cc to choose from. If I pick blood fear there will be many moments where I have no ability to CC at all. If I chose another ability I would be able to fear at the cost of a cast time. Which can be broken by any class other than a warlock.

Lastly I will point out what Nightmarex already said, both fear and howl of terror share dr, so it's only use is a small aoe peel that in most cases is broken yet again by another class CC, dispel, or hell even a miss-placed damaging spell causing it to break instantly.

Point being that fear has way too many counters in the game currently to be relied on as much as blizzard wants us to. Give us back our baseline CC like I suggested earlier and we will have a better overall survivability rate.
Edited by Sathrago on 2/26/2013 4:02 PM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
3560
02/26/2013 02:42 PMPosted by Sathrago
Let me explain to you where you went wrong with your horrible argument.


What rofl? I'm not even making an argument, just getting angry at people referring to horrors as fears.
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2 Orc Warlock
0
02/26/2013 03:57 PMPosted by Psyops
Let me explain to you where you went wrong with your horrible argument.


What rofl? I'm not even making an argument, just getting angry at people referring to horrors as fears.


Woah, i totally grabbed the wrong comment to reply to. And I was sure I fixed all my mistakes >.< my bad man.
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90 Orc Warlock
13785
I don't understand why they refrain from letting us have reliable cc. Reliable meaning not every class has a dang cd to blow when they want to get out of it.

i personally think they should make howl of terror, mortal coil, and shadowfury baseline, and let the talents improve their ability.

For example:

Shadowfury would be a 40 second cd, with a .5 second cast. If talented it would be instant cast and the cd would be reduced by 10 seconds.

Mortal coil would be a 1 min 30 second cd, and heal for 10% of your total health. If talented it's cooldown would be reduced to 1 min and the heal would be 15%.

Howl of terror would be a 40 second cd and have a 1.5 second cast. If talented it would be instant cast and physical attacks would reduce the cd by 1 second.

Do this and warlocks gain more survivability than any cd we currently have. Warlocks never needed defensive cds, we needed reliable cc.


Yes, basically let us have the CCs we had in cataclysm (Death coil at 1.5 minute cd and negligible healing and howl at 40 secs and 1.5s cast) and the talents to improve those CCs. It's not like the CCs we had in Cataclysm were overly amazing, and let's face it, since MoP everyone GAINED more CC options while we lost most of ours.

I like the suggestion to give shadowfury as a base ability with a cast time and long CD, as then really the second tier improves one CC. Other suggestions I saw in similar vein completely ignored that, and in my opinion just made it so that no one would pick a talent other than shadowfury.
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2 Orc Warlock
0
Yes, basically let us have the CCs we had in cataclysm (Death coil at 1.5 minute cd and negligible healing and howl at 40 secs and 1.5s cast) and the talents to improve those CCs. It's not like the CCs we had in Cataclysm were overly amazing, and let's face it, since MoP everyone GAINED more CC options while we lost most of ours.
So much this. I saw these changes coming and I knew things cc wise were going to suck for warlocks. It helped that we got Blood fear, but then the nerfs came and now it's not even worth grabbing in 5.2.

02/26/2013 04:17 PMPosted by Lokthen
I like the suggestion to give shadowfury as a base ability with a cast time and long CD, as then really the second tier improves one CC. Other suggestions I saw in similar vein completely ignored that, and in my opinion just made it so that no one would pick a talent other than shadowfury.
I remembered back to when shadowfury had the .5 second cast, but it could be done while moving. it was quite a unique spell and I loved every second of it.
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