Worgen Paladins....

100 Draenei Paladin
11985
02/28/2013 08:15 AMPosted by Amieclaire
Worgen already ruined my like for Death Knights, I don't want them to ruin the love I have for this class as well.


You realize you're a male draenei right?

This is news to me, tell me more.
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100 Human Paladin
16070
02/28/2013 05:13 AMPosted by Contritus
That's not how the story went.


Hmm, as far as I'm aware, Velen and A'dal made it clear that M'uru let himself be captured and siphoned.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
02/28/2013 05:13 AMPosted by Contritus
And the Alliance have overmany paladin races already. Wtb Pandadins (horde only). Make up something lolore to justify it, I don't care how it gets done.


As long as Horde Pandaren lose the ability to be Shaman as compensation.
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Nelf Paladins>Worgen Paladins... GO!
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90 Human Paladin
11945
02/28/2013 08:55 AMPosted by Arkidan
Nelf Paladins>Worgen Paladins... GO!


I'd take either or...

But only after they implement updated character models, and who knows maybe once they do that I would be okay with human too.
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100 Draenei Paladin
17605
02/28/2013 05:13 AMPosted by Contritus
That's not how the story went.


Yes it is.

M'uru knew what would happen and allowed it to happen willingly to redeem the Elven race. Velen foresaw it and it was all planned out by him and the Naaru.

02/28/2013 05:13 AMPosted by Contritus
And the Alliance have overmany paladin races already.


Ally and Horde Paladin and Shaman are usually kept in a balance, right now the Horde are winning that balance.

02/28/2013 05:13 AMPosted by Contritus
Make up something lolore to justify it, I don't care how it gets done.


Of course you don't, thankfully people like you don't make these decisions.
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100 Tauren Paladin
11985
02/28/2013 12:32 AMPosted by Jakosta
Sorry but that bugged me, Incorrect. Silver Hand disbanded and was reformed as the Scarlet Crusade. (Members then left SC due to it being corrupted and formed Argent Dawn) Argent Dawn and Scarlet Crusade formed together and made the Argent Crusade, hence Silver Hand reborn (look at their banners, the circle has a hand!) Remnants of the Scarlet Crusade that did not form up went on to become the Scarlet Onslaught and went to Northrend, leaving the last bit of Scarlet Crusade (corrupted ones) in SM.


Uh...no. The Scarlet Crusade weren't involved at all. By the time the Argent Crusade was formed, the Scarlet Crusade was already gone (reformed into the Scarlet Onslaught and left for Northrend).

In the death knight starting sequence, Tirion specifically merges the Knights of the Silver Hand with the Argent Dawn to form the Argent Crusade. If you haven't played a death knight, you should--it's a pretty cool event.
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100 Draenei Paladin
15135
The %%@@!*!!## of lore in this thread is astonding. Please look up the actual lore before you misquote it.

/nerdrageend
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100 Human Paladin
9250
I don't think Worgen could become Paladins. One of the biggest misconceptions people have in relation to Paladin vs Priest is how their mechanics with the Light works. Priests pray and their prayers are answered (though I have no idea how that works for shadow spells). Paladins have the Light constantly flowing through them. Allowing them to wield it as they see fit.

It is because the Light is always within them that they are immune to the curse of undeath. It is through this we can assume a Worgen would be incapable of becoming a Paladin. The CURSE would be at odds with the LIGHT. Making it impossible for the Worgen to channel it.

It is the reason the Frosaken do not have Paladins.

Now, the Light vs the Worgen Curse is all theorycrafting, but a curse is a curse. It is safe to assume the curse prevents Worgen from training as Paladins.

And before anybody questions how Arthas became a Death Knight, in comes Frostmourne. Frostmourne would be an exception to the rule. How, I am not 100% sure. What I do know is Arthas never died to be resurrected. We know that plays a part. Arthas also willingly allowed the Curse of Frostmourne to enter his body. That might be the key. Though, again, I am not sure.
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90 Human Paladin
7020


Racials really have nothing to do with which classes can be what races, but I do agree with you.

A Worgen Paladin would not only be stupid, but would look incredibly silly.


I'm pretty sure humans are the silliest looking things in this game... Even if worgen could be paladins, human anything still takes the cake for silly looking.


How do you figure that Humans are the silliest looking race in the game? You have obviously never seen a Gnome before...
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100 Tauren Paladin
11985
02/28/2013 03:54 PMPosted by Holysavior
It is because the Light is always within them that they are immune to the curse of undeath. It is through this we can assume a Worgen would be incapable of becoming a Paladin. The CURSE would be at odds with the LIGHT. Making it impossible for the Worgen to channel it.

The question I have there is: Does the Light protect paladins from curses or from the Curse of Undeath? That's a pretty major distinction, and not one I've ever heard a real answer to. The Light is very much anti-undead, so it would make sense that it would protect its champions from undeath, but I haven't seen anything specifically saying that Warcraft paladins are immune to all curses (however, it could easily have been covered somewhere I've missed--I haven't played Warcraft III yet, sadly).

Furthermore, that brings up the question of whether player worgen are even considered cursed anymore. During the worgen starting zone, the night elves perform a ritual to purify the player's body and spirit. It doesn't reverse the effects of the curse, but are they still "cursed" after that?
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100 Human Paladin
9250
In response to your input on the Light vs all curses, I am running on assumptions there. It makes sense if you boil it down, though. Seeing how we are talking about a curse and curses are considered dark by nature. The polar opposite of the Light. Just as you never hear of Paladins falling to fel corruption in any form. We don't know if the Light makes a Paladin immune to such curses, but at the same time you never hear about them becoming afflicted by them.

As for your thoughts on the Worgen, they are still cursed. The curse cannot be removed. It is just too powerful. However, the Night Elven Druids were able to restore the humanity of the Worgen. Allowing them to still have free will and think for themselves. The fact they are still cursed is seen even in gameplay. Their stadard transformation is surrounded with dark energy while any sense of combat forces out their wolven state. They cannot fight as humans. The moment they sense mortal danger and that adrenaline starts to pump, the transformation is instant.

The curse is also seen in the Forsaken quests in Silverpine (I made a Forsaken for the purpose of learning more on Horde lore. Love it!). Where the survivors of Hillsbrad drink Worgen blood to 1)make themselves immune to the curse of undeath and 2)give themselves a fighting chance. The curse is transferred through the drinking of blood in that scene.
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100 Tauren Paladin
11985
02/28/2013 05:39 PMPosted by Holysavior
In response to your input on the Light vs all curses, I am running on assumptions there. It makes sense if you boil it down, though. Seeing how we are talking about a curse and curses are considered dark by nature. The polar opposite of the Light. Just as you never hear of Paladins falling to fel corruption in any form. We don't know if the Light makes a Paladin immune to such curses, but at the same time you never hear about them becoming afflicted by them.

Well, fel corruption is demonic and the Light is also anti-demon, so that basically falls under the same umbrella as being protected against undeath.

02/28/2013 05:39 PMPosted by Holysavior
As for your thoughts on the Worgen, they are still cursed. The curse cannot be removed. It is just too powerful. However, the Night Elven Druids were able to restore the humanity of the Worgen. Allowing them to still have free will and think for themselves. The fact they are still cursed is seen even in gameplay. Their stadard transformation is surrounded with dark energy while any sense of combat forces out their wolven state. They cannot fight as humans. The moment they sense mortal danger and that adrenaline starts to pump, the transformation is instant.

Player worgen already had their free will and ability to think restored before they were purified by the night elves. The ritual purified them from the major component of the curse (the rage). The human form is only an illusion, hence why combat dispels it.

Their bodies were altered on a fundamental level by the curse, but that doesn't mean they're still cursed. Orcs' bodies were also altered on a fundamental level by fel corruption, but they're not cursed anymore. Similarly, blood elves' bodies were altered on a fundamental level by fel corruption, but they can become paladins. I think the Light can tell the difference between "is cursed" and "was cursed".

And that's even assuming that the Light would care about the worgen curse--it was neither demonic or related to undeath, but a product of one of the Ancients (the product of a negative emotion, yes, but not necessarily evil).

02/28/2013 05:39 PMPosted by Holysavior
The curse is also seen in the Forsaken quests in Silverpine (I made a Forsaken for the purpose of learning more on Horde lore. Love it!). Where the survivors of Hillsbrad drink Worgen blood to 1)make themselves immune to the curse of undeath and 2)give themselves a fighting chance. The curse is transferred through the drinking of blood in that scene.

Did drinking the blood actually turn them into worgen? I don't remember those quests very well. If it just made them curse-resistant then it was probably just passing along whatever made worgen curse-resistant (before that racial was removed), not the curse itself (which would have turned them into berserk worgen, anyway, since the curse came with unquenchable rage).
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100 Human Paladin
9250
Huh. I thought the ability to transform was part of having the curse weakened since when you "choose" to transform it is very animated. Not a simple "poof I'm a Worgen". Of course, this wouldn't be the first thing I was wrong about either. lol

As for their free will and what not restored, it was a temporary fix. It was the whole basis to why your questing begins to focus on finding this "cure" you were hearing about. Thus the discovery of the Night Elven Druids entering Gilneas with the intention to help the Worgen. The Night Elves are still responsible for creating a permanent fix, but they still fail to completely remove the curse.

And as for those quests in Silverpine, yeah. Blood drinking turned them to Worgen. Scene was actually a little comical. The second they all turn to Worgen, the Valkyr with you FLIPS OUT! lol And seeing it was the blood of one of the Worgens who had his sanity restored (I forget his name right now), it only makes sense that the curse he transferred to them would be in the same state as it is in him.
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100 Tauren Paladin
11985
Okay, then yeah, they obviously still have the curse in them (although it was obviously weakened if they didn't go berserk).

It would still be interesting to find out whether or not the Light would care if its user was cursed or just if it was demonic or undead. We do know that worgen can channel the Light, and although paladins are a good step beyond priests it seems like if the Light was really anti-curse it wouldn't allow worgen to use it period.
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100 Human Paladin
9250
Not true. As I stated earlier, there is a fundamental difference between Priests and Paladins. Priests pray for the Light and it answers. The only time it ever really enters their bodies is when they are healing themselves. But again, it is through prayer. Thus, it is never actually inside them. Paladins channel the Light inside their bodies. It is inside them at all times. Paladins are basically a battery of the Light.

It is for those very reasons Forsaken can be Priests but not Paladins.

That is why I assume the Worgen Curse would be at odds with the Light. The two cannot coexhist. At least, that is the assumption I run on given their class choices.

PS: I am loving our conversation. Very civil versus so many conversations you see around here.
Edited by Holysavior on 2/28/2013 6:27 PM PST
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100 Tauren Paladin
11985
Hmm...is that established in the lore anywhere? As far as I know, all magic is channeled through the wielder; shaman also only ask favors of the elements, but the elements' power is still channeled through the shaman's body.
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90 Human Paladin
11945
I'm not a lore buff, but seems to me since the forsaken are kind of the worgen counter or primary enemy, worgen would want to use or learn the power paladins have against the undead.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
7695
02/28/2013 05:13 AMPosted by Contritus


Technically the elves didnt 'force' it, they were allowed to believe that they were 'forcing' it.
That's not how the story went.

And the Alliance have overmany paladin races already. Wtb Pandadins (horde only). Make up something lolore to justify it, I don't care how it gets done.

Yet the horde have ridic amounts of shamans.... Horde have enough Paladin races.. The class originated for Alliance and Ally should remain ahead of horde in amount of races containing it.
A - H
S 3 - 5
P 3 - 2

Alliance has same amount of shaman as they do pally, that just does not seem right to me,...

HOWEVER I am not going to argue for a new pally race, Just saying if there was to be one it should be ally, and that'd also balance the race/class amounts as horde do have 1 more combo. Nothing against you horde players, just saying against the statement that horde need another pally.
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100 Human Paladin
9250
@Keten:

So I did some research while at work. Looked throuhg lore of the various races, Paladins, and all that jazz. Know what I found? Plot holes. I also learned I was wrong about a few things. lol Here is what I found...

The Forsaken CAN wield the Light, but it still hurts them. It does not physically harm them, but causes extreme pain. Example, when you heal a Forsaken with a Light based spell, you heal him, but chances are he is screaming in pain as you do it.

As for Curses versus the Light, there is no explination of it. At least, not one I could find that was backed by Blizzard. Taking that into account, I can no longer see a reason why the Worgen cannot be Paladins. UNLESS, Gilneas has none to begin with. Then the only thing stopping them is the design of their starting area.

Forsaken, however, still cannot be Paladins due to the insane amount of pain a Forsaken Paladin would be in 24/7.

Ready for a plot hole? The Risen have Paladins. What!?
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