Subtlety PvP Guide: Ways of the Rogue (5.4.2)

(Sticky)

02/28/2013 01:54 PMPosted by Diseased
Hey combat rogues! Do it for combat too!!! And no, combat isn't a bad spec for pvp!


It isn't bad, but it does lack utiltiy and damage for PvP. Since it is the least played and least viable spec out of the three, it is pretty unlikely that I touch upon it in another guide. Atleast not until this one is finished at the very least.

Sorry. :) I have to focus on what is the most popular, as it will have the most benefit to the rogue playerbase.
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
13465
Not sure if my first attempt to comment didnt get through, in that case just thanking you for sending this on my thread, but i have one question. With the removal of shurikens applying non lethals in 5.2, i feel like shurikens are quite useless now. What talent in the 90 slot would you recommend in 5.2?
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02/28/2013 03:12 PMPosted by Assailant
Not sure if my first attempt to comment didnt get through, in that case just thanking you for sending this on my thread, but i have one question. With the removal of shurikens applying non lethals in 5.2, i feel like shurikens are quite useless now. What talent in the 90 slot would you recommend in 5.2?


I will be updating the talents to match 5.2 upon release, after I do some testing but I can answer this question now.

I personally will use shuriken toss hands down, the range damage bonus is going to be very nice to maintain uptime on your targets while being kited. It can also assist in landing kills when peeled off [I.E. Grip]. The nerf to non-lethals is understandable, but it makes it tough. Maybe the value to using paralytic will increase because of it?

If not Shuriken toss, then certainly get Anticipation as the 10 combo point burst potential is pretty devistating as sub spec.

Marked for Death is useless in anything but maybe leveling or battlegrounds, and I advise against getting it for anything but those situations at the very least.
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Bump.
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100 Undead Rogue
17785
03/01/2013 02:23 AMPosted by Lefice
Marked for Death is useless in anything but maybe leveling or battlegrounds, and I advise against getting it for anything but those situations at the very least.


Why is Marked for Death (MfD) such a bad talent for Sub? Wouldn't it be a great talent to use inside the MoS/FW opening burst? You could get an extra Evis with those 5CPs.
Edited by Vallagard on 3/9/2013 4:23 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
7390
pretty streamline information, but not a bad guide by any means :)
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Requesting sticky, just needs some editing for 5.2. Great read, very informational.
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90 Dwarf Rogue
9060
Marked for Death is useless in anything but maybe leveling or battlegrounds, and I advise against getting it for anything but those situations at the very least.


I'd like say to at least say Marked for death is amazing for CMs in certain situations. Just got to be creative ;)
From PvP aspect I feel as its good but not good enough to over shine the other talents in tier, This will be the least used if at all used talent for pvp specs.

P.S I'm a huge fan of assassination pvp but your guide has helped me figure out a good opener for subtley, been doing a lot of trial and error.
Helpful guide.
Edited by Aceofblood on 3/9/2013 12:31 PM PST
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Requesting sticky, just needs some editing for 5.2. Great read, very informational.


I apologize for the lack of updating on my part, I have been fairly busy with work. Everything will be updated for 5.2 by the start of the season, which is expected to be this coming tuesday.
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03/04/2013 08:55 AMPosted by Vallagard
Marked for Death is useless in anything but maybe leveling or battlegrounds, and I advise against getting it for anything but those situations at the very least.


Why is Marked for Death (MfD) such a bad talent for Sub? Wouldn't it be a great talent to use inside the MoS/FW opening burst? You could get an extra Evis with those 5CPs.


It isn't that it is 'so bad' as much as it is the other two talents outshining it. Yes, you could in theory get some heavy burst out in a short window, but Marked for Death is basically Anticipation, but on a cooldown. Shuriken toss takes the cake for moble damage, consistant pressure and utility. Anticipation wins only in burst potential. The cooldown on MfD makes it below either of the two.
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03/10/2013 04:33 PMPosted by Lefice
Requesting sticky, just needs some editing for 5.2. Great read, very informational.


I apologize for the lack of updating on my part, I have been fairly busy with work. Everything will be updated for 5.2 by the start of the season, which is expected to be this coming tuesday.


Everything should be updated for 5.2 now, and I added the glyph section as well. If you find any errors, typos or miss leading information that you believe to be incorrect please let me know.

I will do more research and investigate into it to provide the most accurate data.

Also, yay a sticky! You guys rock. :)
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90 Night Elf Rogue
9670
Where does weapon dps fit into our stats? I'm just trying to make a comparison between a fully upgraded Raid Finder version of Spiritsever with the legendary gem to replacing it with the season 13 Malevolent Gladiator's Shanker

There is a 10 second Internal Cooldown between the use of Synaps Springs and Malevolent Gladiator's Badge of Conquest. They cannot be stacked, so keep this in mind and time your burst and cooldowns accordingly!


Just a little clarification here - you can't overlap the cooldowns. So if you use the Badge first it is a 20 second cooldown, if you use the Springs it is 10 seconds, as such it isn't a 10 second internal cooldown at all. It's probably just semantics but I didn't realise that until it was pointed out to me.
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Where does weapon dps fit into our stats? I'm just trying to make a comparison between a fully upgraded Raid Finder version of Spiritsever with the legendary gem to replacing it with the season 13 Malevolent Gladiator's Shanker


Weapon DPS is always valued, right now as I stated in the guide, PvP Power is the best damage increasing stat.

So, weapon dps set aside. The legendary gem would give you 1000 attack power and some crit rating. However you are losing out on Stamina, TONS of PvP power, and resilience. The combination of those stats which you would lose out-weighs the gain in attack power. Especially since weapons give 9%~ PvP power increase.

Just a little clarification here - you can't overlap the cooldowns. So if you use the Badge first it is a 20 second cooldown, if you use the Springs it is 10 seconds, as such it isn't a 10 second internal cooldown at all. It's probably just semantics but I didn't realise that until it was pointed out to me.


That is essentially what I ment/said. The time one must wait between the trinket use can be refered to as an internal cooldown, but I suppose I could have worded it better.

But yes, You cannot overlap the Springs and On-use trinket. They do not share a cooldown, but rather there is a 10-20 second wait time between the use of each depending upon which you use first.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
11125
Well, well, well.

Welcome to the sticky side, Lefice. :) Nicely done. Really cool to see a solid, thorough PvP runthrough up in our little neck of the forum woods.
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Well, well, well.

Welcome to the sticky side, Lefice. :) Nicely done. Really cool to see a solid, thorough PvP runthrough up in our little neck of the forum woods.


Thanks! It is good to see such a positive response from the community.

If anyone wants to see specific additions to the guide, or has any suggestions, let me know!
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90 Pandaren Rogue
7045
Great guide! Haven't PvP'd on my rogue in a couple of years and they've gone through quite a bit of changes since I was out of it. This has been incredibly helpful in getting back into the swing of things.

Don't suppose you have any macros that you use frequently, do you? Would like to see that included in the guide as well. Thanks!
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47 Orc Rogue
290
Ok so iv had wow for years but i started playing two days ago i know weird.. this is my real first character [ Rogue /Assassination/ LVL39 ]

Anyways for my professions i chose skinning/mining.. i read somewhere that its best to choose two gathering professions to make money.

My question is how do i benefit from switching skinning for Blacksmith or Mining for Leatherworking? If i can get better armor in dungeons (assuming i can correct me if i'm wrong) & whats the point of blacksmith if i can find better weapons in dungeons? (correct me if i'm wrong)

Can i just stick with skinning/mining and never switch it? or are there extra perks if i have LW/BS?

iv been seeing a lot of people talk about how they love engineering but since im still a noob never been in pvp and im still learning the terms i don't fully understand everything

My other question is.. if its a good idea to switch at what lvl should i do so? do i loose all the progress i made on the profession i remove? Will it be a drag lvling up a profession once im deep into the game?

I would appreciate all advice.. thank you very much everyone
i am loving the game so far.
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Don't suppose you have any macros that you use frequently, do you? Would like to see that included in the guide as well. Thanks!


Every single ability on my interface is in a macro. Most of the macros I use are modifier macros that include stance checks. If I were to make a macro section it would take up the entire guide xD I'd rather answer macro questions as they come. Here is an example macro.

Shadow Dance: This macro cancles subterfuge which can bug shadow dance sometimes, casts premeditation, shadow dance and then uses Cheap shot or garrote depending on if im holding shift or not, it will also use my trinket or engineering glove enchant depending on which is on cooldown. It starts my auto attacks because sometimes autos get buggy and dont trigger as fast as they should

#showtooltip Shadow Dance
/cancleaura Subterfuge
/cast Premeditation
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast [mod:shift] Garrote; Cheap Shot
/use 14
/use 10
/startattack
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Ok so iv had wow for years but i started playing two days ago i know weird.. this is my real first character [ Rogue /Assassination/ LVL39 ]
Anyways for my professions i chose skinning/mining.. i read somewhere that its best to choose two gathering professions to make money.

My question is how do i benefit from switching skinning for Blacksmith or Mining for Leatherworking? If i can get better armor in dungeons (assuming i can correct me if i'm wrong) & whats the point of blacksmith if i can find better weapons in dungeons? (correct me if i'm wrong)

Can i just stick with skinning/mining and never switch it? or are there extra perks if i have LW/BS?

iv been seeing a lot of people talk about how they love engineering but since im still a noob never been in pvp and im still learning the terms i don't fully understand everything

My other question is.. if its a good idea to switch at what lvl should i do so? do i loose all the progress i made on the profession i remove? Will it be a drag lvling up a profession once im deep into the game?

I would appreciate all advice.. thank you very much everyone
i am loving the game so far.


This guide is directed towards level 90 pvp. Are you talking about level 90, or low levels?
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90 Human Rogue
12665
This was helpful in ways and in some not.
But thankyou anyway.
Edited by Immy on 4/15/2013 5:50 PM PDT
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