auto-banning for same account gold mailing

100 Dwarf Warrior
17495
I have two licenses on my account, one of which I use exclusively to AH with. Yesterday I mailed about 250k from the AH account to my main account. The AH account was banned today for exploitative behavior. This is the second time this exact scenario has happened to me. With the advent of multiple licenses possible on one account, why has the flagging system not been changed to ignore large transactions on the same account, instead of just the same license? I appreciate the need to combat gold-selling, but it's very annoying being the victim of incorrect punitive action once, let alone multiple times.

Edit: The ban has already been rescinded as of the time of my original post. I'm posting to point out that the flagging system needs to be updated, not argue about the account action.
Edited by Ersiusp on 2/27/2013 7:30 AM PST
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14 Blood Elf Priest
0
02/27/2013 07:29 AMPosted by Ersiusp
I appreciate the need to combat gold-selling, but it's very annoying being the victim of incorrect punitive action once, let alone multiple times.

So why not send it in smaller less "gold-selly" amounts?

In any event, the correct forum to suggest this sort of change in would be the General forums.
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92 Blood Elf Paladin
10970
It's highly unlikely that it's the amount. It's more likely that given your high volume of AH activity, somewhere along the way, someone used stolen gold to purchase your items.

There are certain actions that raise flags, but it takes more than just a "red flag" to cause any type of action. It's a combination of many things.
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100 Dwarf Warrior
17495
02/27/2013 07:35 AMPosted by Perl
In any event, the correct forum to suggest this sort of change in would be the General forums.
Not going by the forum descriptions. This is the more appropriate forum.

And it's silly to have to launder my own legitimately earned gold being transferred between my own characters.
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92 Blood Elf Paladin
10970
Not going by the forum descriptions. This is the more appropriate forum.


This forum is not for feedback/suggestions. The developers, who have the power to make the change, do not take feedback from here.

You want General.
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14 Blood Elf Priest
0
Unfortunately, you're incorrect Ersiusp. If you're looking to make a suggestion that you'd like a developer to read, you'll want to post in a forum that they look for suggestions in. The CS forum is not one of those forums. You're welcome to search for the hundreds of blue posts here in CS that will backup that statement.
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100 Dwarf Warrior
17495
It's highly unlikely that it's the amount. It's more likely that given your high volume of AH activity, somewhere along the way, someone used stolen gold to purchase your items.

There are certain actions that raise flags, but it takes more than just a "red flag" to cause any type of action. It's a combination of many things.
Both times this has happened it was the day following me mailing a chunk of gold. I realize that's not definitive proof, but it's a convincing enough correlation for me. Obviously, I'm going to change how I do things now to avoid it from here on out, but it is a flaw in the system that should be addressed to not inconvenience other honest customers.
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14 Blood Elf Priest
0
It's not a flaw though. If that's really what happened, then it's working as intended if you ask me. How would they tell the difference between legitimate accounts and hacked accounts?
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100 Dwarf Warrior
17495
The gold was mailed from a character on one license in my account to a character on a different license in the same account. That's the flaw. If I directly mailed it from a level one to a character not on the same account, I would completely agree.
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14 Blood Elf Priest
0
Well, best of luck with your suggestion over in General.
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
16925
"Economy Exploitation," or "Abuse Of the Economy," are Blizzard's catch all terms for a combination of suspicious activity/red flags that makes it appear the account maybe in control of Gold Sellers/hackers. When enough red flags are raised it can trigger a “precautionary,” suspension/ban.

I have been following the CSF for some time now. Below are just some of the Red Flags that I have been able to gleam in that time. Please Note: For the most part, none of these actions are against the rules, and by themselves will not normally trigger a suspension. However they are behaviors that are shared by gold sellers. It is by no means a complete list, nor do I know the number, weight of each flag, combination, and/or pattern of Red Flags, that will trigger an account action.

The use a lower ping, tunneling service, Proxy to access wow. They can send up a major red flag to the system’s detection programs as Gold sellers use them as well to hide their tracks. They can also make it appear that you account is being accessed from several points all over the world, in an inhumanly possible manner for one person to do.

Mat farming in a repetitive fashion, following the same route over and over again, and not responding to tells. Expressly the AOE farming of large numbers of mobs, at once. This can make it appear that you are using a Farming Bot or exploit.

The use of any special gaming keyboards like a G15, or a gaming mouse, that has any auto shot or play function. Automatic game play is not limited to it performing actions for you so you can go AFK. Blizzard does not allow you to set up it’s macros to do anything that you can't do with in game macros. Basically one button push one action, and no holding down the button for auto repeats.

Large transfers of gold or item between toons expressly between more then one account. Note Even if you are the owner of the accounts the system’s detection programs doesn’t know that.

A large volume or a large usual increase(above the player’s norm)of AH and in-game trade activity that is out of character may send up red flags. Just like unusual Credit Card activity will raise a red flag with your bank.

If a lot of the items you buy and resell on the AH are stolen from an hacked account, that is another red flag. However if it appears you are buying exclusively from hacked accounts, may get you suspended, without any other flags being raised.

The posting and selling of low level mats or items at an extremely unreasonably high amount of gold. Example: a single light leather for 10,000 gold. As gold sellers try to launder gold in this manor.

A large volume or a large usual increase(above the player’s normal) in trading of gold, and items between several players. Also if some one you dealt with was a hacker, can be another red flag . Note: if the deal seemed to good to have been true, most likely it was stolen goods.

Running or taking part in GDKP runs. While GDKP runs are not against the rules they are not supported. Gold sellers have been known to use Hacked accounts for GDKP runs as a way of raising gold to sell. When you pay for one of these run, that is headed by a Hacker, it puts you into Money trail of the Gold selling scheme. If someone is paying for the GDKP run with gold they bought from a gold seller, will put an Honest guild/raid leader, and participants, in the money trail as well. Lastly leading a GDKP run, can make you more variable to scamming charges, from disgruntled players.

When enough red flags are raised it can cause you to get a 3 day "precautionary," suspension for "Economic Exploitation," while Blizzard does a more in-depth investigation. These "precautionary," suspensions are done to protect your account from further damage, in case you had been hacked.

Please note at no time has any GM stated that these are Red Flags that their security programs are looking for. It is a list that I have complied from almost 5 years of following the CS forum, based on statements made from other player have made in, or from other threads like this one.
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92 Blood Elf Paladin
10970
02/27/2013 07:51 AMPosted by Ersiusp
Both times this has happened it was the day following me mailing a chunk of gold.


Indeed. A chunk of gold that you earned from selling items in the AH. People will purchase stolen gold, then use the gold to purchase items. When Blizzard investigates where the money went, your name is involved, because you received the stolen gold.

02/27/2013 07:51 AMPosted by Ersiusp
I realize that's not definitive proof, but it's a convincing enough correlation for me.


It's not really "correlation". Even if it's was 1g, and you never mailed it another account, it is still stolen. The account action was overturned, because once they reviewed your particular involvement, they see that you did nothing wrong.

02/27/2013 07:51 AMPosted by Ersiusp
Obviously, I'm going to change how I do things now to avoid it from here on out


You can't avoid it, unless you stop using the AH altogether.

, but it is a flaw in the system that should be addressed to not inconvenience other honest customers.[/quote]

02/27/2013 07:51 AMPosted by Ersiusp
it is a flaw in the system that should be addressed to not inconvenience other honest customers.


The gold was mailed from a character on one license in my account to a character on a different license in the same account. That's the flaw. If I directly mailed it from a level one to a character not on the same account, I would completely agree.


Being mailed from one account to another doesn't magically make the gold legitimately acquired.

The only flaw is that you're not understanding what is really happening. You're stuck on "this happened because I mailed a certain sum of gold". That's not what really happened here.
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100 Dwarf Warrior
17495
I don't think you understand the difference between a license and an account.
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25 Night Elf Druid
0
02/27/2013 08:30 AMPosted by Ersiusp
I don't think you understand the difference between a license and an account.


Of course we do. Don't be trite.

License is actual World of Warcraft accounts tied to a battlenet account. All of which have to have the same name registered to them.

That said?

The Blues in CS are not developers, nor liaisons to them. Additionally the developers do not read this forum for feedback,complaint, or suggestions.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6413134207#10

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7415606749#2


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92 Blood Elf Paladin
10970
02/27/2013 08:30 AMPosted by Ersiusp
I don't think you understand the difference between a license and an account.


It doesn't matter what the difference is between the two. Your "flaw" is that you think you are getting popped for mailing gold to another character, and you don't think that should happen if it's on the same WoW license.

That's not likely the reason why you are getting popped. It doesn't matter what you do with the gold after you have received it. It matters where the gold came from in the first place. You could've left the gold on the AH character, and once Blizzard finished their investigation, the same thing would've happened.
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
16925
02/27/2013 07:57 AMPosted by Ersiusp
The gold was mailed from a character on one license in my account to a character on a different license in the same account. That's the flaw. If I directly mailed it from a level one to a character not on the same account, I would completely agree.


02/27/2013 08:30 AMPosted by Ersiusp
I don't think you understand the difference between a license and an account.


Let me see if I can break it down a bit more:

It does not matter if the gold is being transferred between toons on the same WoW account, or between different WoW accounts on the same B-Net account. It is just one of the behaviors the system picks up on.

Again it is just one of the Behaviors the system is looking for. By itself the mailing of gold from one toon to another, will not cause a suspension/ban. It is the combination of several other behaviors/flags, with the mailing of the gold possibly being one of them; that can cause it.

The reason it does not matter is An individual toons or WoW accounts may not have enough gold on it, that a Gold/hacker may need to fill an order. So they will mail all the gold from all of the toons, to just one toon/mule on the same server. Then if that still is not enough to fill the order, and you have more then one WoW accounts, they will strip your other WoW accounts, and mail their gold to the one toon they are using as a mule.
Edited by Ewing on 2/27/2013 9:12 AM PST
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100 Night Elf Hunter
13815
So, you were banned previously for sending large amounts of gold to yourself. And you sent yourself large amounts of gold again, and got banned... again.

Albert Einstein had an interesting, but applicable, thought in relation to such events:

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
19590
The gold was mailed from a character on one license in my account to a character on a different license in the same account. That's the flaw. If I directly mailed it from a level one to a character not on the same account, I would completely agree.
The thing is, gold sellers do very little using lvl 1 characters, other than advertising. Moving and consolidating large amounts of gold, within in a account or between icenses on the same account is exactly what the gold sellers do.
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100 Human Paladin
aus
19355
02/27/2013 08:40 AMPosted by Madisón
That's not likely the reason why you are getting popped. It doesn't matter what you do with the gold after you have received it. It matters where the gold came from in the first place. You could've left the gold on the AH character, and once Blizzard finished their investigation, the same thing would've happened.


Except we have known since tbc that single large mails of gold does in fact trigger an auto ban till they investigate.

Send gold in smaller parcels.
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92 Blood Elf Paladin
10970
02/27/2013 03:19 PMPosted by Mate
Except we have known since tbc that single large mails of gold does in fact trigger an auto ban till they investigate.


No, it does not. I have mailed just as large of sums, if not larger, and received any kind of "auto ban". The amount has nothing to do with it. It's where the gold came from.

SFA's have said that it's a combination of factors that lead to these suspensions, and an appeal will overturn it, if the person is not involved with the gold-selling industry.
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