Conquest points and the solo PvP'er

90 Undead Warlock
7580
02/24/2013 08:30 AMPosted by Purrpledrank
IIRC even Blizz has addressed that there is a big problem with premades making normal BGs very "unfair" and "not fun" to many people. I agree with that. According to them random BGs are supposed to just be random. Sure, group up with a few friends if you want but when the whole team is a huge group of people working together like that it does pose a surprize advantage that the opposing team cannot prepare for and sometimes cannot even begin to match them. Try and lead the masses all you want; more often than not the PUG group you're working with won't listen to you very well...even when you know what you're talking about.


I disagree 100%. I have np solo queuing. Sure, you have some bad nights here and there, but then you have nights where your teams don't lose. Raising the CP in randoms is a bad idea due to the fact it is just too easy to AFK/bot through. RBGs are not that hard to find. I've had a few people on my teams without a weapon for a low mmr rbg. No, you won't get into a high rated team, but who cares if it's just to cap points.
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100 Undead Warlock
12475
02/24/2013 08:30 AMPosted by Purrpledrank
According to them random BGs are supposed to just be random.


No, no, and again, no. Random Bg's are bg's you end up in because you didn't pick a specific bg from the list of options. It has nothing to do with the players in those bg's.

There are no bg's in WoW that you can select that are intended, or promised to, totally random strangers on teams.

Once you accept that "Random BG" refers to the map, not the team makeup, you will understand why there are people, like myself, who solo queue constantly, who don't care about people pregrouped on the other team.

We don't care, because we realize that's working as intended. How do we know it's an accepted event? Because, originally, when you did a bg, it was nothing but players from your server. If you pvp'd much, you knew the other people on your faction who also did, and so did the other faction.

Having said that - sure, an xrealm or qqueue team of 15 in WSG should have a huge advantage, except that just using qqueue doesn't mean the other team HAS played together, has better gear, or has much experience. So, the odds of meeting these uber teams and getting kerbstomped are, actually, pretty low.

Further - a large fraction of conquest geared players gained that gear, like me, thru un rated bg's, just like you. I do 2's to cap, sure, but that's for Sunday or Monday, because that's when my partner has the time, and by then, I usually only need a couple wins to cap. To cap the same weekly cap as you.

Purple - I sympathize with the issues you have getting to do rbg's - I get the same "Dude, you a re a great lock! Just respect destro and we'll queue!"

No, regular bg's allow me to play the spec I want, use all my abilities and stuff, and have fun. And, regular bg's are balanced enough that I geared the same rate as most arena players.
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Oqueue

problem solved
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90 Night Elf Druid
4030
02/24/2013 07:48 AMPosted by Kiaransali
when you think about it regular bgs are just about as hard as rated bgs. because of all things you have to deal with, isn't that the same reason premaders say they roll over pugs because iit is too hard for them to deal with pick up groups.
Your opinion is a perfect example of my lawyer (RBGs & arenas) vs McDonalds worker (BGs) analogy. Sure the guy working at McDonalds may very well be working harder than the lawyer, but doing his job takes less skill. The McDonalds employee also has to deal with knuckleheads, take out the garbage, scrub the grille, etc. BGs are are not unlike that.


How does it take less skill? It's doing exactly the same thing! The difference is you get no direction in BGs while in RBGs there's a plan and someone giving you directions. Now granted, as some have said you can just goof off an not care and I suppose get by. You can't do that in RBGs without it being noticed and you being dropped. But if you DO care then you are doing exactly the same work, only having to use your brain instead of being told where to go or what to do.
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90 Night Elf Druid
4030
02/24/2013 08:31 AMPosted by Kiaransali
i didn't read what kia said because it made me hungry. the degree of skill the game takes in ratio to your analogy seems a bit off.
A little, but not much. I'd say RBGs are played about 4X better than a BG (not to mention a lot harder to organize), so 400 vs 100 conquest seems about right.


I've been in RBGs, not so much with this toon but on my mage. it is NOT harder by any means.
I've got over 180k HKs, so I know what I'm talking about.
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90 Undead Warlock
7580
02/24/2013 12:01 PMPosted by Rinin
But if you DO care then you are doing exactly the same work, only having to use your brain instead of being told where to go or what to do.


Not even close. Have you done an RBG? NM looked it up, you have done 5 on that character. Randoms have all sorts of gear levels, skill levels, and classes. With RBGs, you are going against the most OP classes/specs, people who are relatively geared (not quest greens) and some people of higher skill (not always, but sometimes). It's definitely more work to win an rbg than a random. Also in BGs like AB/eots, you only have 10 people vs 15 in random.
Edited by Jugaa on 2/24/2013 12:08 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
4030
02/24/2013 12:06 PMPosted by Jugaa
But if you DO care then you are doing exactly the same work, only having to use your brain instead of being told where to go or what to do.


Not even close. Have you done an RBG? NM looked it up, you have done 5 on that character. Randoms have all sorts of gear levels, skill levels, and classes. With RBGs, you are going against the most OP classes/specs, people who are relatively geared (not quest greens) and some people of higher skill (not always, but sometimes). It's definitely more work to win an rbg than a random. Also in BGs like AB/eots, you only have 10 people vs 15 in random.


The players on the other side have more skill, generally, and better gear, yes. And the players on your team do as well, so it evens out.
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90 Undead Warlock
7580
02/24/2013 12:11 PMPosted by Rinin
The players on the other side have more skill, generally, and better gear, yes. And the players on your team do as well, so it evens out.


Exactly, which means you have to be more coordinated and smarter. It's not just rolling pugs in randoms. The fact that just 1 person can sometimes cause a win in a random, but it takes the team to win an RBG, and a good leader/target caller.
Edited by Jugaa on 2/24/2013 12:16 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Rogue
5345
Be happy with what you get... not long ago it was 25 cp max daily, til they up'd the gains mid-way through cata.
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90 Undead Mage
1935
02/24/2013 12:01 PMPosted by Rinin
How does it take less skill? It's doing exactly the same thing!
So street basketball takes as much skill as playing in the NBA? Same exact game, very different skill level.

02/24/2013 12:03 PMPosted by Rinin
I've got over 180k HKs, so I know what I'm talking about.
HKs are a measure of how much you have PvPed, not how good you are.

Quint I probably solo queue just as much as you, and I've done zero crying on here about premades in random bgs. If at anything you need to be pushed into a corner irl and given a wedgie to stop your excessive crying in game and enhance your crying irl
I'd love to see Quint vs Panic... that would be epic.
Edited by Kiaransali on 2/24/2013 1:12 PM PST
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90 Undead Rogue
9025
cp points for solo que should be raised to compensate for premades
it would encourage and help balance random bg's vs premades and it wont affect the game structure as it stands.
this would also allow premades to keep playing w/o being restricted benefiting the people who still want to do that
Edited by Imback on 2/24/2013 1:10 PM PST
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90 Undead Mage
1935
02/24/2013 01:23 PMPosted by Quint
ust stop boring me to death with bgs.
If BGs are boring to you don't play them... problem solved. Now if you will excuse me I have alliance to kill.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
9390
02/24/2013 01:07 PMPosted by Kiaransali
I'd love to see Quint vs Panic... that would be epic.


What would happen is both would fill a room with tears completely until the windows burst creating some sort of mythbusters type scenario.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6825
02/24/2013 08:31 AMPosted by Kiaransali
I'd say RBGs are played about 4X better than a BG (not to mention a lot harder to organize), so 400 vs 100 conquest seems about right.


Yes!

Finding 10 players who can follow instructions, and understand their roles, plus have basic playing ability isnt easy. Winning a random bg doesnt take much effort. Rewards should always be higher for doing harder things.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6825
02/24/2013 12:01 PMPosted by Rinin
How does it take less skill? It's doing exactly the same thing! The difference is you get no direction in BGs while in RBGs there's a plan and someone giving you directions


People in RBGS usually have to have a clue how to play their class, and work with their teammates. Random scrubbers dont pay attention to anything, dont even know what theyre doing half the time, and if you try to direct them, they just call you a bunch of names while telling you to !@#$.

Should that kind of play be rewarded as much, or even half as much as a coordinated, cohesive group of players? No way! I try to participate in arenas, rbgs, and randoms, and i like that rewards are higher for doing things that take more coordination.
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