UH must be AMAZING in PvP

90 Human Rogue
8490
I finally dusted off my DK last night, and thought "hm, if I'm going to level this guy for PvP, maybe I'll try UH instead of mongo Frost this time".

After spending 20 minutes trying to figure out how to fit in all of the keybinds as UH, I finally gave up and just redid my frost spec. I played a lock back in vanilla, and even there I didn't feel like I was so overwhelmed with keybinds the way I was looking at that UH DK setup last night.

Anyone that is able to keep track and optimally use all those abilities must be pretty darn sharp, and UH must be so much better than frost for people to be willing to put up with that complexity.
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90 Worgen Death Knight
12005
If you're still interested in trying Unholy I'd suggest approaching it in increments.

When I first started, for instance, I didn't bother fiddling with Claw and all the other pet control macros until I had most everything else down pat (basic rune management, etc.).

Trying to do everything at once will drive you crazy.

I'd suggest trying again when you're feeling saucy. It's really not so bad when you take it slowly.
This is exactly what I did to learn Unholy.

Do this.
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90 Human Rogue
8490
OK, thanks both. It's completely overwhelming to me, especially picking up the DK again for the first time in a year or so, having played frost in the past. I'll try doing it in increments.
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1 Human Monk
0
02/24/2013 01:26 AMPosted by Morsyn
Um.. what? How the !@#$ is it that much more complicated than Frost, lmao. You have like 2-3 additional spells you need to manage, tops. You have Unholy Frenzy INSTEAD of Pillar of Frost so that doesn't even count. Your Gargoyle is basically your pet summon in Frost in terms of a cooldown. So you basically do the same exact %^-*, pop your +dmg, pop your summon once you have RP (won't matter in new patch), rotation is VERY mildly different, wooo you have to Scourge Strike twice instead of spam Obliterate. If you played Blood, that's the same concept as Heart Strike. The rest of the rotation and keys is EXACTLY THE SAME. The only thing you need to remotely watch is when you get 5 stacks and that big gold thing LIGHTS UP telling you to hit it to transform your pet. I mean you can try to manually use your pet stun but you will rarely even ever get sucha opportunity. So what's difficult, realizing when you have 5 stacks of the buff? Having to use Scourge Strike twice to blow your unholy runes then spamming Festering Strike like you do Obliterate?

too true buddy, i wouldn't get worked up about ppl saying this, ppl get mad because they are bad at their class so they point the op finger or point the, your class takes less skill finger, or i have a pet that makes me have 7 more keybinds than frost im pro.
Edited by Andersnsilva on 2/24/2013 2:33 AM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
2465
Unholy is more difficult to master than Frost is. You can, uh, say it's not.

But it's true anyway.

To the OP I would say that the initial advice is good. Make sure your gear is purple and that you're gemmed right so it's not hindering you from success; then do a ton of BGs just getting the rotation down. Worry about the ghoul stuff later.
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100 Draenei Death Knight
19060
02/24/2013 01:26 AMPosted by Morsyn
Um.. what? How the !@#$ is it that much more complicated than Frost, lmao. You have like 2-3 additional spells you need to manage, tops. You have Unholy Frenzy INSTEAD of Pillar of Frost so that doesn't even count. Your Gargoyle is basically your pet summon in Frost in terms of a cooldown. So you basically do the same exact %^-*, pop your +dmg, pop your summon once you have RP (won't matter in new patch), rotation is VERY mildly different, wooo you have to Scourge Strike twice instead of spam Obliterate. If you played Blood, that's the same concept as Heart Strike. The rest of the rotation and keys is EXACTLY THE SAME. The only thing you need to remotely watch is when you get 5 stacks and that big gold thing LIGHTS UP telling you to hit it to transform your pet. I mean you can try to manually use your pet stun but you will rarely even ever get sucha opportunity. So what's difficult, realizing when you have 5 stacks of the buff? Having to use Scourge Strike twice to blow your unholy runes then spamming Festering Strike like you do Obliterate?


You're just dumbing down the actual spec mechanics with your choice of wording, which anyone can do to make anything sound simple ("If I want to become the president, I just need people to vote for me").

Unholy, unlike frost, needs to know when to refresh/apply diseases. Doing so incorrectly will ultimately result in DPS loss. It needs to know when to pool its Runic Power in order to increase the up time of Dark Transformation. There's also the entire rule of thumb to NOT line your CDs up with Heroism. All this and I haven't even gotten to wtf your do when AOE arises.

I mean...sure you can hammer away at keys and say you're doing it right, but then again, I once met a homeless lad who thought he was the president.
Edited by Kassadin on 2/24/2013 3:00 AM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
16350
hate to break it to you but no spec in this game is hard to play..
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100 Blood Elf Death Knight
12390
02/24/2013 01:26 AMPosted by Morsyn
I mean you can try to manually use your pet stun but you will rarely even ever get sucha opportunity.

You rarely get an opportunity to manually use Gnaw? What? Even with Claw on auto-cast, it's never a problem to use, give or take a second (max) because of pet energy. Leap should be bound too, and @focus Leap for interrupts. These are very easy to employ, and I say that as a true loather of pet management.
Edited by Ëmpy on 2/24/2013 3:39 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
7280
@Morsyn, i notice you are from my realm, and you seem to be very whiny an enjoy the use of profanity, no surprise really.

But here is the thing, using the pet's Gnaw and leap is no hassle in the least, you can add the pet's ability into you actionbars by simply making a macro for it.

It also seems you are completely missing the point everyone is trying to make as well. UH is by no means, really hard to learn or play, it just has a higher level cap then frost does at this point in the game. Unholy can't simply go in and burst a Warrior face to face, mano a mano, 1v1. It would take a pretty well skilled Unholy DK to line up the kill, as for Frost just simply trying to burst down the Warrior first. Some people, like myself, like setting up our kills against a class/spec that is supposedly OP, it gives me a thrill in PvP, something Frost doesn't offer me.

I hope I cleared somethings up. And please, if you are just gonna quote me and call me a idiot and such, by all means go ahead. :)
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100 Blood Elf Death Knight
12390
It's not any harder for me to hit my S key, which I have Gnaw on, than it is to hit Kidney Shot on my rogue. The benefits of not overlapping CC speak for themselves, and that is guaranteed to happen if you leave half your control up to the pet's awful AI.

/cast Gnaw

or

/cast Leap

Put those macros on a bind, and voila you're done. Mix in some focus macros and you're even better off. I'm not saying pet babysitting is an esoteric and precise art to be mastered, just the opposite in fact.
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100 Draenei Death Knight
19060
K, this is cool and all and I admit I forgot adding not to use Frenzy with Heroism. But that's probably because I actually read the opening post, unlike you, and realized that his whole complaint was based around the KEY BINDS and too many buttons~!... which is what I was addressing in my post. And I don't exactly see how that's difficult to grasp either, it's more like a thing that would just be obvious and natural after you figured it out. And the timing on saving up RP can be difficult because I don't even think there's a built-in mechanic to tell you when DT runs out. But your first point? How is it MORE difficult to refresh/apply diseases with the spec that has a spell that refreshes ALL of your diseases (hi Festering Strike). I'm assuming you're talking about in AoE situations and even then, being Frost means you're only at ease for applying Frost Fever, you STILL have to apply Blood Plague yourself by using Plague Strike so it's the same exact problem. Yeah, you actually have to use that Pestilence spell (if Unholy Blight is on CD or you didn't choose Rolling Blood).

DK is like one of the simplest and most faceroll rotations, I wasn't actually saying anything to make Unholy simpler, I'm putting out raw facts how the spells are the same. Are you disagreeing that Frenzy and Pillar operate the same (incoming semantical arguement about their stat gains)? Or Gargoyle and Raise Dead (frost)? Either way, this is all irrelevant because you are tying in completely different functionalities of the spec than what the OP is arguing about.


You are ignorant. You lack even the most basic knowledge of disease playing for unholy, to which I must ask....have you ever truly sat down and try to play unholy at all? If you're spamming all those Festering Strikes you're ultimately losing out on Scourge strikes. Besides...diseases are bound to fall off at some point, be it down time or target swapping (this is true for both PvP and PvE). Any person who had the slightest knowledge of unholy would know you'd want to maximize DPS be lining up your Unholy Strength procs with trinket procs and such to increase the damage of said diseases... hence more difficult. Unlike frost (not including master frost), diseases do not make up such a large part of their damage rather than buffing Obliterate damage. this disease play is another reason why even considering taking Roiling Blood talent is considered a DPS loss.

Now as for your AOE argument, it isnt as simple as applying Plague strike, or pestilence-ing, because you're required to prep before AOE even comes into play (i.e. to set up your runes and even your ghoul's DT), as doing your 'method' would ultimately lead to starvation from rune desynchronization... thus leading...to a DPS (yeah, I'm sure you figured it out) loss.

I even forgot about the pet micro-management.

At any rate

02/24/2013 01:26 AMPosted by Morsyn
Um.. what? How the !@#$ is it that much more complicated than Frost, lmao


There...you have a draft as to why it is more complicated.
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55 Goblin Death Knight
4705
02/24/2013 02:45 AMPosted by Rekláh
Unholy is more difficult to master than Frost is. You can, uh, say it's not.


Because subjective !@#$ is fact.
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100 Draenei Death Knight
19060
Difficulty is subjective. Arguing about this sort of thing is pointless.
No amount of evidence will dissuade one side or the other, so you all might as well just stop.


... b-but...he started it.
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